Can We Have A Definitive Answer For Low Rhr In Athletes?

[bodacious]

In Peat-land, low RHR means slower metabolic function (I believe this was inspired by Broda Barnes's work, but I haven't read it yet).

I'm a competitive weightlifter, and I've had a sub-50 RHR for the last 6 years, at least.

I mentioned this to my GP, who reassured me that it's a sign of having a strong, healthy heart.

So the question: Is low RHR indicative of a low metabolism, even in trained strength atheletes?

 

[Drareg]

It could be adaptive for what your doing, people who do that diving competition ,see who goes further down?would probably not do well taking T3 before the event.

I think Peat uses context before recommendation, he mentions in several articles about the environment conditioning the organism. Marathon runners for example are conditioning themselves to perform their event through training, to do this you need a certain type of metabolism, unfortunately this metabolism is proven to not be good, these guys end up with huge issues, the Nike marathon scandal was about cytomel, was it Salazar the head guy there? He had a heart attack in his 50's ,he used testosterone and t3 to get himself back to health, he recommended this to the athletes, from a Peat point of view the irony of this story is impressive.

Lighter weightlifting is beneficial from what I get from Peat, lowering the weight down is something he says is not ideal however, callisthenics might be a better example,gymnasts. These guys get ripped, technically gymnasts are stronger overall ?

None of this is recommended to excess for ideal health, in saying that he is not dogmatic and neither is anyone I know following Peat, I do callisthenics sometimes to excess and can fell the stress hormones for about 2 days after,lowered heart rate,many people speak of a similar effect on here after weights.

I think Peat recommends higher metabolism for more coherent intelligence, there is a study on here about criminals with lower heart rates seem to react more violently , I definitely feel a touch more aggressive with a lower heart rate at times.
It's all about intelligence for him, he speculates about William Blake having a big head and this requiring more glucose because of Brain size and Blakes profound intelligence/insight, Blake mentioned he did not like to travel or do excercise because it exhausted him too quick, many highly intelligent people will just walk moderately , I'm talking real high intelligence, Blake,Bohm etc

Anyone know of a sincere genius ,not the Steve jobs pseudo pop genius kind that does full on excercise like marathons?
Kung Fu some martial arts maybe??
What's the resting heart rate of martial artists?

 

[zooma]

RP has said that low RHR is a strong indicator of hypothyroidism.

 

[Tarmander]

It's all about intelligence for him, he speculates about William Blake having a big head and this requiring more glucose because of Brain size and Blakes profound intelligence/insight, Blake mentioned he did not like to travel or do excercise because it exhausted him too quick, many highly intelligent people will just walk moderately , I'm talking real high intelligence, Blake,Bohm etc

Wow this is really interesting, I had no idea about this. I am in the exact same boat. Exercise and traveling exhaust me and my head is massive...like it's always XL on hats and helmets and stuff.

 

[jaguar43]

In Peat-land, low RHR means slower metabolic function (I believe this was inspired by Broda Barnes's work, but I haven't read it yet).

I'm a competitive weightlifter, and I've had a sub-50 RHR for the last 6 years, at least.

I mentioned this to my GP, who reassured me that it's a sign of having a strong, healthy heart.

So the question: Is low RHR indicative of a low metabolism, even in trained strength atheletes?

Yes

This is called the staircase effect, from the way a tracing of its motion rises, beat by beat, as the rate of stimulation is increased. This is a logical way to behave, but sometimes it fails to occur: In shock, and in heart failure, the pulse rate increases, without increasing the volume of blood pumped in each contraction.

Szent-Gyorgyi found that estrogen treatment decreased the staircase effect, while progesterone treatment increased the staircase. He described the staircase as a situation in which function (the rate of contraction) builds structure (the size of the contraction). Progesterone allowed "structure" to be built by the contraction, and estrogen prevented that.
(It's interesting to compare these effects of the hormones to the more general idea of anabolic and catabolic hormones, in which more permanent structures in cells are affected.)

Heart and hormones

 

[Drareg]

Lols you could be the next William Blake !

@bodacious The hearts rate does indicate hypothyroidism but it's adaptive in your case, I wouldn't keep increasing metabolism if you keep weight lifting at that level, you can use the Peat toolbox for recovery maybe? To be clear, during competition it might be dangerous to have the heart rate at 85 bpm to then rise during lifting, you might want to ease yourself into that.
If you do please tell us how it goes.

 

[jaguar43]

It's all about intelligence for him, he speculates about William Blake having a big head and this requiring more glucose because of Brain size and Blakes profound intelligence/insight, Blake mentioned he did not like to travel or do excercise because it exhausted him too quick, many highly intelligent people will just walk moderately , I'm talking real high intelligence, Blake,Bohm etc

Anyone know of a sincere genius ,not the Steve jobs pseudo pop genius kind that does full on excercise like marathons?
Kung Fu some martial arts maybe??
What's the resting heart rate of martial artists?

Ray Peat has also said that large head isn't necessary associated with intelligence. Someone one that follows Ray Peat on Facebook posted this regarding intelligence, he quotes a story about Stalin.


A professor, at Oxford I think, was doing MRI studies of brains, and his grad students participated. He remarked that the lab's chess champion had such enlarged ventricles that his brain formed a layer inside his skull no thicker than the meat of a coconut. When I read that I remembered hearing that someone had commented to Stalin that "Molotov has a lot of brains," and Stalin said "yes, but they're stupid brains." The intellectual capacity of an ant or bee shows what a milligram or two of brain cells can do when they are well organized. Kurt Goldstein's view of organismic meaning, developed by working with brain-injured people, was applied to language by Merleau-Ponty; from a different tradition, Natalia Bekhtereva developed a very similar approach to self-actualizing therapies. The idea is that a larger meaning-pattern can elicit the necessary functions from living material."


-Ray Peat

From a Facebook comment by Health Kurra On the Vladimir Heiskanen Facebook page

Vladimir Heiskanen

 

[Such_Saturation]

The conventional idea is that the heart gets stronger like the other muscles and can do more with one stroke. However the usual hypertrophy that is seen in athletes is really a kind of swelling (in Ray Peat context) so it would be so difficult to actually gauge any gains in cardiac strength.

 

[Drareg]

@jag2594 that's a great quote.
Yes I think he was using the Blake example in jest,maybe.
It shouldn't matter too much about size if we view the universe as a holograph/holomovement of sort. David Bohm.
Karl Pribram has shown this to be the case, he cut out random parts of monkey brain and they could still function.
It seems to be about what Peat gets at, coherent energy to unfold patterns.

 

[jaguar43]

@jag2594 that's a great quote.
Yes I think he was using the Blake example in jest,maybe.
It shouldn't matter too much about size if we view the universe as a holograph/holomovement of sort. David Bohm.
Karl Pribram has shown this to be the case, he cut out random parts of monkey brain and they could still function.
It seems to be about what Peat gets at, coherent energy to unfold patterns.

Yea, I think in that Facebook post, a link to a story regarding a man who had an IQ of about 126 with hydrocephalus who apparently had no brain.

No Moods, Ads or Cutesy ******* Icons » No Brainer.

 

[Miso]

Body temperature is a better predictor of metabolic function vs RHR; some people may have normal/higher RHR and still have low body temperature because they may have higher cortisol/catecholamines levels. I wouldn't be too worried of having a lower RHR while still having normal body temperature, especially if you're athletic.

 

[bodacious]

Lols you could be the next William Blake !

@bodacious The hearts rate does indicate hypothyroidism but it's adaptive in your case, I wouldn't keep increasing metabolism if you keep weight lifting at that level, you can use the Peat toolbox for recovery maybe? To be clear, during competition it might be dangerous to have the heart rate at 85 bpm to then rise during lifting, you might want to ease yourself into that.
If you do please tell us how it goes.

LOL During competition my heart goes like the clappers. I'd be lucky if it was < 100bpm :)

 

[bodacious]

Body temperature is a better predictor of metabolic function vs RHR; some people may have normal/higher RHR and still have low body temperature because they may have higher cortisol/catecholamines levels. I wouldn't be too worried of having a lower RHR while still having normal body temperature, especially if you're athletic.

Thanks!

 

[bodacious]

A professor, at Oxford I think, was doing MRI studies of brains, and his grad students participated. He remarked that the lab's chess champion had such enlarged ventricles that his brain formed a layer inside his skull no thicker than the meat of a coconut. When I read that I remembered hearing that someone had commented to Stalin that "Molotov has a lot of brains," and Stalin said "yes, but they're stupid brains." The intellectual capacity of an ant or bee shows what a milligram or two of brain cells can do when they are well organized. Kurt Goldstein's view of organismic meaning, developed by working with brain-injured people, was applied to language by Merleau-Ponty; from a different tradition, Natalia Bekhtereva developed a very similar approach to self-actualizing therapies. The idea is that a larger meaning-pattern can elicit the necessary functions from living material."


-Ray Peat

Great quote! Thanks for sharing

 

[Such_Saturation]

Body temperature is a better predictor of metabolic function vs RHR; some people may have normal/higher RHR and still have low body temperature because they may have higher cortisol/catecholamines levels. I wouldn't be too worried of having a lower RHR while still having normal body temperature, especially if you're athletic.

Honestly what I experienced was my vagus nerve working overtime to slow my heart and I saw similar rates as this. During the insanity workout I had 44BPM at rest while sitting down. But it would take very little to uncover the real condition of adrenaline and get spikes along with pounding feeling, etc. The temperature was not necessarily always low (but it really was in the mornings) although it never was great either. Remember that adrenaline activates brown fat and other things to make heat.

 

[bodacious]

But it would take very little to uncover the real condition of adrenaline and get spikes along with pounding feelin

Yes! I can experience the same "jolt" of adrenaline while relaxing. Usually at night when my RHR is super low.

Remember that adrenaline activates brown fat and other things to make hea

I had no idea that adrenaline was involved in the production of BAT. Makes sense if you've ever followed any of Wim Hof's work though. That seems to be all adrenaline-driven adaptations.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Yeah! I'd get it after eating, especially carbohydrates and salt.

 

[bodacious]

Yeah! I'd get it after eating, especially carbohydrates and salt.

I haven't noticed a trend, other than it happens when the X Files is on #Scully

 

[Such_Saturation]

Scully

That could be physiological.

 

[Drareg]

@Such_Saturation
Is your heart rate still low? Do you notice an intellect effect from lower to higher, Can adrenalin that gets you to over 85bpm be coherent intellect? it should be temporarily,it's an adaptive substance, long term is the issue.
Would explain why many don't feel awake until they do gym work.

I notice 85bpm when I achieve this to be optimal for reading,studying.

Excercise lowers it temporarily if I over do it,it subtly effects intelligence I think.

A lot of gym addicts getting panic attacks I notice, probably the adrenalin effect going awry , I'm guessing these adaptive stress substances are being burned through quicker with the way people are training these days.
Some of them train 7 days per week, job is 9-5 , I know some pro athletes who laugh there **** off at this, they are sick of training!!