Bile Stimulators cause hair loss + irritability

[laleto12]

When ever I take bile stimulating supps like coffee, taurine , UDCA, my hair gets extremely frizzy and falls out. I also get irritability and just feeling off?


What might be the cause of it? Is my bile so toxic?

 

[aniciete]

It has nothing to bind to

 

[laleto12]

It has nothing to bind to

This happens even if I eat soluble fiber though.

 

[youngsinatra]

Bile is leaking into the blood stream. That‘s what happens in cholestasis. Do you have itchiness as well?

 

[laleto12]

Bile is leaking into the blood stream. That‘s what happens in cholestasis. Do you have itchiness as well?

I had a time period where I experienced crazy itchiness like 1 year ago. It passed away itself though. What can i do to solve cholestasis?

 

[aniciete]

This happens even if I eat soluble fiber though.

Experiment with insoluble fiber. @Vinero has mentioned that he believes soluble fiber actually triggers his cholestasis

 

[youngsinatra]

I had a time period where I experienced crazy itchiness like 1 year ago. It passed away itself though. What can i do to solve cholestasis?

I am still working on fixing mine, too. It‘s not that easy unfortunately.
Reducing the intake of known things that damage the liver is the first thing. I personally think that methylation is a central and overarching piece that is very important for liver health and possibly liver regeneration.

SAMe has been found to be helpful for cholestastic liver disease.

S-Adenosylmethionine in the treatment of intrahepatic cholestasis of chronic liver disease: A field trial

In a controlled, open-label trial, 640 patients with intrahepatic cholestasis (IHC) complicating chronic liver disease (cirrhosis, 309 patients; chron…

www.sciencedirect.com

I am not implicating that supplemental SAMe is necessarily needed, but many methylation processes are negatively affected and down-regulated in liver dis-ease(s).

Lots of animal protein, especially meat (for methionine -> precursor to SAMe, B3, B5, B6, B12, choline, creatine), hitting 1-2x the RDA for folate (leafy greens, beans, legumes), having a source for glycine (like bone broth/collagen or supplement) should help with this.

 

[DrJ]

I am still working on fixing mine, too. It‘s not that easy unfortunately.
Reducing the intake of known things that damage the liver is the first thing. I personally think that methylation is a central and overarching piece that is very important for liver health and possibly liver regeneration.

SAMe has been found to be helpful for cholestastic liver disease.

S-Adenosylmethionine in the treatment of intrahepatic cholestasis of chronic liver disease: A field trial

In a controlled, open-label trial, 640 patients with intrahepatic cholestasis (IHC) complicating chronic liver disease (cirrhosis, 309 patients; chron…

www.sciencedirect.com

I am not implicating that supplemental SAMe is necessarily needed, but many methylation processes are negatively affected and down-regulated in liver dis-ease(s).

Lots of animal protein, especially meat (for methionine -> precursor to SAMe, B3, B5, B6, B12, choline, creatine), hitting 1-2x the RDA for folate (leafy greens, beans, legumes), having a source for glycine (like bone broth/collagen or supplement) should help with this.

Some people seem to think that bile salts or ox bile can help cholestasis. What do you think of this?

My dog was diagnosed with cholestatic liver disease and on reading that bile salts help I started giving him bile salts. It made a substantial improvement in his energy level and bowel movements. The vet was also impressed with his improvement. She then prescribed UDCA as she called this a more powerful bile salt which also seems helpful.

My dog was on a SAMe supplement for years before this and it never made an improvement on his liver enzymes. So I have some doubts on SAMe but I also recognize that people with liver problems shouldn't be slamming niacinamide lol.

 

[Andy316]

@laleto12 Is it only supps or foods as well? Do you have hypothyroidism?

 

[laleto12]

@laleto12 Is it only supps or foods as well? Do you have hypothyroidism?

If you consider coffee as a food then yes. Other than that I havent realized any.

I am hypothyroid, yes.

 

[TabulaRasa]

Some people seem to think that bile salts or ox bile can help cholestasis. What do you think of this?

My dog was diagnosed with cholestatic liver disease and on reading that bile salts help I started giving him bile salts. It made a substantial improvement in his energy level and bowel movements. The vet was also impressed with his improvement. She then prescribed UDCA as she called this a more powerful bile salt which also seems helpful.

My dog was on a SAMe supplement for years before this and it never made an improvement on his liver enzymes. So I have some doubts on SAMe but I also recognize that people with liver problems shouldn't be slamming niacinamide lol.

How did your dog respond to the UDCA vs whatever OTC one you used? Do you think it was more powerful/beneficial? Did you initially use Ox Bile or TUDCA?

 

[DrJ]

How did your dog respond to the UDCA vs whatever OTC one you used? Do you think it was more powerful/beneficial? Did you initially use Ox Bile or TUDCA?

UDCA at first gave him diarrhea so I cut the dose in half and then it was fine. I don't know that it made a big further improvement since I never stopped him with the normal bile supp but now he's on both.

 

[cs3000]

I had a time period where I experienced crazy itchiness like 1 year ago. It passed away itself though. What can i do to solve cholestasis?

Some people seem to think that bile salts or ox bile can help cholestasis. What do you think of this?

My dog was diagnosed with cholestatic liver disease and on reading that bile salts help I started giving him bile salts. It made a substantial improvement in his energy level and bowel movements. The vet was also impressed with his improvement. She then prescribed UDCA as she called this a more powerful bile salt which also seems helpful.

My dog was on a SAMe supplement for years before this and it never made an improvement on his liver enzymes. So I have some doubts on SAMe but I also recognize that people with liver problems shouldn't be slamming niacinamide lol.

From what i've read the unconjugated acids are thought of as generally most toxic to cells, and UDCA could be highly toxic Molecular Mechanisms of Ursodeoxycholic Acid Toxicity & Side Effects: Ursodeoxycholic Acid Freezes Regeneration & Induces Hibernation Mode

because it breaks down to Lithocholic acid. same as CDCA.
but humans do have a sulfating mechanism for detoxifying the lithocholic acid https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1081/DMR-200033475

so in most people if this function is working it might be excreted well enough. still personally i wouldn't like to use that 1 as i've got no idea on my bodys individual effectiveness to detoxify it in the amounts from taking in more UDCA.

*also i'm not sure if dogs have this protective mechanism, meaning it could be getting exposed to too much of this toxic acid, rabbits and monkeys don't do it efficiently. so may be best to switch to conjugated type (if this doesn't convert to lithocholic acid?).
this is typical secretion of conjugated bile acids for dogs if thats important Naturally occurring conjugated bile acids, measured by high-performance liquid chromatography, in human, dog, and rabbit bile - PubMed The mean values were 74.3% for taurocholic acid, 14.9% for taurodeoxycholic acid, and 5.3% for taurochenodeoxycholic acid they typically secrete the taurine type


TUDCA also worked better than UDCA for biliary cholangitis (bile blockage) A multicenter, randomized, double-blind trial comparing the efficacy and safety of TUDCA and UDCA in Chinese patients with primary biliary cholangitis - PubMed

I can't find for sure if TUDCA doesn;t break down to lithocholic acid like UDCA though


Apparently overall the conjugated acids are thought to be less toxic or not toxic, but some of them do show liver cell toxicity,

it's complicated because some of the bile acids protect against liver toxicity of the other ones - so taken together even the conjugated ones that show isolated toxicity could be ok. also toxicity isolated in isolated cell studies might be different than in the human body where different things can be expressed directly by the bile acids.

to me bile acids having any significant toxicity to gut cells or liver cells as it travels through doesn't fit looking it from evolution perspective. considering they get recycled many times every day passing back through & are key to the body. so yeah mainly just having elevated blood levels from a blockage would be a problem i think
maybe UDCA / CDCA are the exceptions because of its byproduct, if elevating that to levels body is not used to dealing with?
humans typically generate 500mg of total bile acids a day


anyway the conjugated ones have profound effect on gut health, a rat study i saw showed clearance of small intestine bacteria where it was 6x higher than in controls before taking 750mg human equivalent which basically cleaned it out within a month. it reduced endotoxin in blood by 3x. & doubled survival rates in the liver damaged rats
also the enhanced absorption of saturated fats is nice too
there's a concern of a cholesterol lowering effect. so i might just stick to periods of 3 weeks use 500mg or something idk

 

[Andy316]

@laleto12 Any updates on this?

 

[laleto12]

@laleto12 Any updates on this?

I don’t experience this anymore. I’m not sure what or how it got fixed. At that time of my life, my health wasn’t really good.