Ascorbate And The Copper Hand-Off

[yerrag]

Okay, so Ray was talking about the contamination in modern production of vitamin C. Was it lead? I can't remember but did everybody come to a conclusion about which vitamin C is safe? I'd bought that powdered one from Quali-C. Then, people here were saying it's not a good one. No proof of not being contaminated so they said.

Long ago I used ascorbic acid a la Linus Pauling, but apparently, a different process was used for the synthesis back then. And by the way, Ray isn't against using supplements, just ones with bad additives or safety problems in production.

Quali-C is simply non-GMO. But GMO or not isn't a real concern for me. If the final product is l-ascorbic acid of high purity, the GMO part of the source material is already long gone. It would not be significantly causing harm. Whereas with lead contamination, that to me is much more of a concern. Perhaps it would be good if I contact the maker of Quali-C and inquire about the lead content of their product.

Here is my enquiry to them:

I'm a member of a web-based health forum www.raypeatforum.com and I've offered to inquire with you regarding the quality of your Quali-C ascorbic acid powder product.
This forum is generally concerned about lead contamination in the production processes involved in the production of ascorbic acid. Your product is labeled as non-GMO, which is encouraging. It tends to make people want to use your product as opposed to that of other manufacturers. That is a concern that we share as well. But left unaddressed is the other main concern we have. Could you be able to give me information as far as lead contamination is concerned with your Quali-C product? Is there a maximum lead content that you have spec'd out for your products to meet?
I know this may be a sensitive topic and you may not want to satisfy my inquiry. But if you already have addressed our concern, I would appreciate hearing back from you and I will in turn share with the forum your reply.
Thank you.

Sent to : Contact Us

 

[pauljacob]

When I feel the coming of cold or Flu symptoms I take up to 3000 mg of either pill or powder C and the symptoms disappear. To me C is a good immune booster.

 

[lollipop]

Hi @yerrag and @Janelle525 what do you guys think of this Vit C?

 

[yerrag]

Hi @yerrag and @Janelle525 what do you guys think of this Vit C?

View attachment 10729

View attachment 10730

Hi Lisa. It's not the typical garden variety vitamin C for sure. And I've never heard of Garry Gordon either. It's a plus if it can get through the cell using 4 separate pathways, but it seems that it involves some 'methyl' this and methyl that. With the limited understanding I have, I don' know what to say. Interesting doing a google search it has a youtube on lead detoxification, so I'll also look that up as I'm in the process of doing that with vitamin C. I'll read up on what I can find as well.

 

[Arrade]

I thought it was @lisaferraro that shared this link:
Vitamin C as ascorbic acid 16 oz. - FINE POWDER

I bought that ascorbic acid. Can someone tell me if it is a good idea to use?

 

[Arrade]

I was reading http://www.fuckportioncontrol.com/new-products/****-portion-control
@natedawgh 's book he said Vit C at 1 gram depletes iron that is elevated. He said iron was elevated even if serum levels were normal because the tissues try to prevent it's release.

I'm interested in Vit C because both Nathan Hatch and these iodine protocols :https://jeffreydachmd.com/wp-conten...plementing-with-Iodine-Stephanie-Burst-ND.pdf

say that Vit C is good for curing hypothyroidism

 

[Steven Bussinger]

Thank you for this!!! What about using ascorbic acid powder in skin creams?

You're very welcome. I think AA in skin creams should be fine, since the concerns I discussed were a result of ingestion. But you should look for studies about topical AA to be sure.

 

[InChristAlone]

I thought it was @lisaferraro that shared this link:
Vitamin C as ascorbic acid 16 oz. - FINE POWDER

I bought that ascorbic acid. Can someone tell me if it is a good idea to use?

I shared that company and is what I've been using for almost 2 yrs.

 

[Arrade]

I shared that company and is what I've been using for almost 2 yrs.

ah okay. No negative effects? I bought it because I was convinced it didn't have the toxic process that Peat was wary off.
How do you like it? What's your dosage and at what time of the day do you use?

 

[InChristAlone]

ah okay. No negative effects? I bought it because I was convinced it didn't have the toxic process that Peat was wary off.
How do you like it? What's your dosage and at what time of the day do you use?

It is China made so something to be aware of but I think the benefits outweigh the negatives. It lifts my mood typically. I take it all in the morning about 4-8 grams depending on if I want to cause a bowel movement.

 

[Arrade]

It is China made so something to be aware of but I think the benefits outweigh the negatives. It lifts my mood typically. I take it all in the morning about 4-8 grams depending on if I want to cause a bowel movement.

Noooo I didn't know it was china made
Don't think i felt issues with it tho

 

[Glassy]

Yes. Adding 200mg of pregnenolone. Subtracting enzyme-laden cheap “industrial” cheese and all forms of honey made the allergies go away over about two weeks and remain gone.

Glad you were able to get on top of it man. Someone suggested vitamin C for you which got me thinking about my own (relatively mild but annoying) seasonal allergies.

It's very hard, or almost impossible to find the d-ascorbate form. I don't know how it is in Australia, but l-ascorbic acid powder is easily found in Amazon US, and even in the Philippines I can buy it from a chemical distributor.

The effervescence you see in C-Salt is cool. Even more cool is that you get to see it when you make your own.

View attachment 10728

Yeah I tried the cheap ascorbate powder available here but I couldn’t get the scaremongering out of my head that it was roughly half d-ascorbate and half l-ascorbate. I don’t know how much d-ascorbate is in our Vit-C but the c-salts has a COA with low heavy metal contaminates and it was claimed to be L-ascorbate. Vit C here doesn’t mention l-ascorbate.

I figured the C-salts had carbonates to react with the Ascorbic acid and I wasn’t that impressed by the amount of magnesium per serve. I’m not worried about too much sodium or supplementing potassium. Fizzing is cool but unnecessary IMO. I figure next time I’ll get pure L-ascorbic acid from iherb which is about 1/2 the price of c-salts when you factor in shipping and taxes to Australia. I might add a bit of MOM to add some magnesium ascorbate while still keeping it on the acid side. I don’t regret buying it because it allowed me to test out the vit C at decent doses and I think Ascorbate/AA is worth buying (I have a guru friend who says it’s not vit C - he advocates the “whole C” thing).

 

[yerrag]

Glad you were able to get on top of it man. Someone suggested vitamin C for you which got me thinking about my own (relatively mild but annoying) seasonal allergies.



Yeah I tried the cheap ascorbate powder available here but I couldn’t get the scaremongering out of my head that it was roughly half d-ascorbate and half l-ascorbate. I don’t know how much d-ascorbate is in our Vit-C but the c-salts has a COA with low heavy metal contaminates and it was claimed to be L-ascorbate. Vit C here doesn’t mention l-ascorbate.

I figured the C-salts had carbonates to react with the Ascorbic acid and I wasn’t that impressed by the amount of magnesium per serve. I’m not worried about too much sodium or supplementing potassium. Fizzing is cool but unnecessary IMO. I figure next time I’ll get pure L-ascorbic acid from iherb which is about 1/2 the price of c-salts when you factor in shipping and taxes to Australia. I might add a bit of MOM to add some magnesium ascorbate while still keeping it on the acid side. I don’t regret buying it because it allowed me to test out the vit C at decent doses and I think Ascorbate/AA is worth buying (I have a guru friend who says it’s not vit C - he advocates the “whole C” thing).

The fizzing is only there because it's simply the l-ascorbic acid reacting with the carbonates. Cool in that you can replicate the product with your own mix of ascorbic acid and carbonate. If you're not impressed by the amount of magnesium, you can customize to your requirement. As far as COA, it's an assurance that we don't really have the means to verify. Whoever audits them anyway if they're telling the truth? For a company that claims no sodium as a selling point when even the magnesium, potassium, and calcium component is already low (if there is sodium it would just be as low), and presents the l-ascorbic component as l-ascorbate to mislead buyers into thinking there isn't any ascorbic acid in the product (another name for ascorbic acid is hydrogen ascorbate, and l-ascorbate means the l-ascorbic form of hydrogen ascorbate), how can I believe its COA especially?

If you can compute the amount of ascorbic acid that reacts with the magnesium, potassium, and calcium carbonate (zinc ascorbate would not be so much even if we leave that out), you would see that the ascorbic acid left that's unreacted would still be significant. I'm just not sure the product has a neutral pH at all. Yet they're selling it as being non-acidic. Maybe there's something I'm missing here, but I just don't see it. Maybe what they're meaning to say is that it would not be acidic enough to not be 'gentle,' but certainly it's not non-acidic.

n.b. Probably better to go with potassium bicarbonate than with pot carb. Pot carb is very reactive.

 

[Glassy]

The fizzing is only there because it's simply the l-ascorbic acid reacting with the carbonates. Cool in that you can replicate the product with your own mix of ascorbic acid and carbonate. If you're not impressed by the amount of magnesium, you can customize to your requirement. As far as COA, it's an assurance that we don't really have the means to verify. Whoever audits them anyway if they're telling the truth? For a company that claims no sodium as a selling point when even the magnesium, potassium, and calcium component is already low (if there is sodium it would just be as low), and presents the l-ascorbic component as l-ascorbate to mislead buyers into thinking there isn't any ascorbic acid in the product (another name for ascorbic acid is hydrogen ascorbate, and l-ascorbate means the l-ascorbic form of hydrogen ascorbate), how can I believe its COA especially?

If you can compute the amount of ascorbic acid that reacts with the magnesium, potassium, and calcium carbonate (zinc ascorbate would not be so much even if we leave that out), you would see that the ascorbic acid left that's unreacted would still be significant. I'm just not sure the product has a neutral pH at all. Yet they're selling it as being non-acidic. Maybe there's something I'm missing here, but I just don't see it. Maybe what they're meaning to say is that it would not be acidic enough to not be 'gentle,' but certainly it's not non-acidic.

n.b. Probably better to go with potassium bicarbonate than with pot carb. Pot carb is very reactive.

It’s been a while since I read their stuff but they argue the reacted ascorbic acid is more gentle to the stomach (I’ve read this elsewhere but is of no concern to me) than ascorbic acid. The L form of ascorbic acid or ascorbate is chemically the same structure as the D form but is a mirror image. I don’t remember them talking about that and I’m pretty sure I read it somewhere else. A few sources claimed that the D form was harmful but they were a bit sketchy from memory. It wasn’t enough to stop me buying and taking some cheap C, but it did niggle at the back of my mind. I thought the mag & zinc was cool but I already supplement with mag and eat oysters once a week for zinc. Having a COA is better than not having one but I agree it isn’t a guarantee what you are buying matches the COA.

As far as I can tell the ascorbate ion forms the bulk of the substance once reacted. I’m sold on the benefits of a good C supplement but I’m sure there are others of a similar quality to C-salts.

This is the stuff I’d buy next time.

And This is the stuff I was a bit dubious of (it’s actually more expensive per gram since it’s sold in smaller packets).

 

[Kray]

Quali-C is simply non-GMO. But GMO or not isn't a real concern for me. If the final product is l-ascorbic acid of high purity, the GMO part of the source material is already long gone. It would not be significantly causing harm. Whereas with lead contamination, that to me is much more of a concern. Perhaps it would be good if I contact the maker of Quali-C and inquire about the lead content of their product.

Here is my enquiry to them:

I'm a member of a web-based health forum www.raypeatforum.com and I've offered to inquire with you regarding the quality of your Quali-C ascorbic acid powder product.
This forum is generally concerned about lead contamination in the production processes involved in the production of ascorbic acid. Your product is labeled as non-GMO, which is encouraging. It tends to make people want to use your product as opposed to that of other manufacturers. That is a concern that we share as well. But left unaddressed is the other main concern we have. Could you be able to give me information as far as lead contamination is concerned with your Quali-C product? Is there a maximum lead content that you have spec'd out for your products to meet?
I know this may be a sensitive topic and you may not want to satisfy my inquiry. But if you already have addressed our concern, I would appreciate hearing back from you and I will in turn share with the forum your reply.
Thank you.

Sent to : Contact Us

@yerrag:

Any response yet from your inquiry? I, too, use a product with Quali-C, and have just written to the manufacturer with the same question. Please let us know what you find out.

Another company advertises "China free" vitamin C-- would this be the same as Quali-C?

 

[yerrag]

@yerrag:

Any response yet from your inquiry? I, too, use a product with Quali-C, and have just written to the manufacturer with the same question. Please let us know what you find out.

Another company advertises "China free" vitamin C-- would this be the same as Quali-C?

It's good you reminded me to check my spam email. Unfortunately, I got no reply from them. It's either they're too large a company (they make many other items) and responding to queries or not doesn't make a difference to them at all, or they have nothing to say about lead in their product (hiding something by their silence) or don't want to say something that would lead to a lawsuit. This is a faceless company I think and they don't really care. They just like to say "GMO-Free" and just leave it at that. At any rate, I'm not buying their product anymore.

If the company advertises "China free" and don't say it's Quali-C, it's likely not Quali-C. If they have Quali-C, they are more likely to advertise it as such.

 

[Mito]

It's good you reminded me to check my spam email. Unfortunately, I got no reply from them. It's either they're too large a company (they make many other items) and responding to queries or not doesn't make a difference to them at all, or they have nothing to say about lead in their product (hiding something by their silence) or don't want to say something that would lead to a lawsuit. This is a faceless company I think and they don't really care. They just like to say "GMO-Free" and just leave it at that. At any rate, I'm not buying their product anymore.

If the company advertises "China free" and don't say it's Quali-C, it's likely not Quali-C. If they have Quali-C, they are more likely to advertise it as such.

C-Salts looks good. C-Salts COA

 

[Kray]

It's good you reminded me to check my spam email. Unfortunately, I got no reply from them. It's either they're too large a company (they make many other items) and responding to queries or not doesn't make a difference to them at all, or they have nothing to say about lead in their product (hiding something by their silence) or don't want to say something that would lead to a lawsuit. This is a faceless company I think and they don't really care. They just like to say "GMO-Free" and just leave it at that. At any rate, I'm not buying their product anymore.

If the company advertises "China free" and don't say it's Quali-C, it's likely not Quali-C. If they have Quali-C, they are more likely to advertise it as such.

@yerrag

Thanks for your update.

FWIW-- Got an answer today from my query. Here it is:

Thank you for contacting us about our Vitamin C powder. *** tests all ingredients we use and the final product for assay, microbes, and heavy metals to ensure the complete safety and efficacy of each product provided to the consumer. We also receive Certificates of Analysis from all our ingredient suppliers. These certificates specify the maximum allowable amounts for any impurities and report the precise amounts of impurities present. The levels of heavy metals are within limits. *** products have to meet a set standard in order for our Quality department to release the product and make it available to our consumers.

What would you make of this? Would you be inclined to continue using their Quali-C product?

 

[yerrag]

@yerrag

Thanks for your update.

FWIW-- Got an answer today from my query. Here it is:

Thank you for contacting us about our Vitamin C powder. *** tests all ingredients we use and the final product for assay, microbes, and heavy metals to ensure the complete safety and efficacy of each product provided to the consumer. We also receive Certificates of Analysis from all our ingredient suppliers. These certificates specify the maximum allowable amounts for any impurities and report the precise amounts of impurities present. The levels of heavy metals are within limits. *** products have to meet a set standard in order for our Quality department to release the product and make it available to our consumers.

What would you make of this? Would you be inclined to continue using their Quali-C product?

It's good that they replied to you. The answer is very boilerplate and doesn't go to specifics. They don't give you the maximum lead content in the vitamin C they sell, for instance. I had asked for that information, and maybe that is why they didn't answer back because it was too specific.

I'll resend the same query to them that I did before and see if the first time was a fluke:


I'm a member of a web-based health forum www.raypeatforum.com and I've offered to inquire with you regarding the quality of your Quali-C ascorbic acid powder product.
This forum is generally concerned about lead contamination in the production processes involved in the production of ascorbic acid. Your product is labeled as non-GMO, which is encouraging. It tends to make people want to use your product as opposed to that of other manufacturers. That is a concern that we share as well. But left unaddressed is the other main concern we have. Could you be able to give me information as far as lead contamination is concerned with your Quali-C product? Is there a maximum lead content that you have spec'd out for your products to meet?
I know this may be a sensitive topic and you may not want to satisfy my inquiry. But if you already have addressed our concern, I would appreciate hearing back from you and I will in turn share with the forum your reply.
Thank you.

n.b. This is my 2nd query to you. If you do not care to reply again, I understand that you have nothing good to say about your product.

 

[Kray]

It's good that they replied to you. The answer is very boilerplate and doesn't go to specifics. They don't give you the maximum lead content in the vitamin C they sell, for instance. I had asked for that information, and maybe that is why they didn't answer back because it was too specific.

I'll resend the same query to them that I did before and see if the first time was a fluke.

Hope it would be the reason and not that they are avoiding giving honest and clear information. Too bad in my case they aren't more specific. Can you suggest how I might elicit a more specific answer?

Are there many companies using "Quali-C"? Wonder if it would be worth sending a form letter out to all until you are satisfied with an answer?