Arterial Thoracic Outlet Syndrome And Back Pain

Discussion in 'Ask For Help or Advice' started by Kt400, Jan 30, 2019.

  1. Kt400

    Kt400 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    Messages:
    49
    Gender:
    Male
    I've been recently diagnosed with arterial thoracic syndrome in both arms. I am wondering if it could be possibly related to me waking up with back pain everyday? I am an athlete who is very physically active. Before I go to bed every night I am able to touch my toes, sometimes even the floor with straight legs. However I always wake up not being able to. I remember one time two years ago after laying down for an hour for an MRI of my shoulder, I woke up and my lower back and right side was numb even though my legs were elevated on pillows. If it is not related to the TOS then what structures in lower back could be impeding on nerves or arteries? In upper exteemity many times it is the first rib and collarbone pinching on the brachial plexus... How do I fix this?
     
  2. TheSir

    TheSir Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    395
    Possibly your head posture is not good, which causes the rest of the spine to compensate. Almost all nerve & spinal problems begin from the head.
     
  3. OP
    Kt400

    Kt400 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    Messages:
    49
    Gender:
    Male
    I deadlift and squat all the time so I dont know about that. I did have an MRI of cervical spine which showed bone spurs. Doctor said that wasn't a big deal tbough. I sleep on my side most nights. Maybe I should start sleeping on my stomach?
     
  4. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    7,828
    How’s your thyroid function. First thing to look at.
     
  5. OP
    Kt400

    Kt400 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    Messages:
    49
    Gender:
    Male
    Had it checked already t3 and t4 all within normal ranges
     
  6. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    7,828
    yes, that doesn't mean anything. How are your temperatures and heart rate?

    Check first thing in the morning.


    The symptoms you report are classic for low thyroid.
     
  7. OP
    Kt400

    Kt400 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    Messages:
    49
    Gender:
    Male
    Well how else am I supposed to check thyroid?

    Pulse is 60 to 75 when I wake up according to Fitbit
     
  8. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    7,828
    temperatures should be close to 98F. when you wake. 60-65 HR when you wake is a bit lowish. I bet your temps are low too.
     
  9. fradon

    fradon Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2017
    Messages:
    605
    there are many excercises online that can help. I have found some relief doing jumping jacks. another thing is put both your thumbs under your arm pits with the finger pointing to the sky and elbos pointing to the ground its a yoga move but this can help push the bracial plexus up.
     
  10. Owen B

    Owen B Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    295
    Gender:
    Male
    I'll go out on a limb here and say that I'm extremely dubious of such a diagnosis. It sounds like typical medical model overfocus on a supposed structural defect.

    Do you work out with weights a lot? For the shoulders, chest and back? If so, that's most likely the cause of the "arterial or venous insufficiency". A bulked up muscle has increased mass and force but it is a shortened muscle. Such shortening pulls everything else in the area short. Muscles will pull on the joints and other bones. That in turn impinges on nerves and arteries, veins. The structural/functional integrity and resilience of the whole area is lost.

    It sounds a lot like the nonsense you always hear about "sciatica". There the problem is not "in" the nerve, but impingement on joints and nerves (and veins probably) from chronically overshortened muscles.

    Putting length back into the muscles in the chest area would go a long way. Also, putting length between yourself and the medical professionals would be a plus.

    Be careful. If you don't watch out the MDs will be cutting out a portion of your rib cage before you know it. (Like what they did to Matt Harvey, a pitcher for the NY Mets, who had "TOS").
     
  11. OP
    Kt400

    Kt400 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    Messages:
    49
    Gender:
    Male
    Matt Harvey is back throwing harder than when he was before surgery. Chris young had enormous shoulder pain and diminshed velocity at 33 and was able to come back for four more years of major league baseball because of removing his first rib.

    For me it's been almost four years since shoulder surgery for torn labrum and bicep tendon and I am still unable to throw. Worse now than I was before despite strenuous work ethic last four years. For years before the surgery I had command issues and fluctuating velocity. They told me I had the yips and that it was all in my head. I hired who was considered to be one of the best sports psychologists in the game. Complete waste of money. The diagnosis is the only thing that makes sense for the muscle atrophy, control and loss of feeling of ball in my hands. So Im not going to write it off as dubious... Especially after I saw multiple testing with my own eyes.
     
  12. Owen B

    Owen B Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    295
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm not a insider when it comes to these issues. But all these injuries that professional athletes are getting these days seems incredible to me. It's not just the amount of injuries, it's the kind of injuries. When did position players in BB start getting problems with their elbows and going for Tommy John surgery?

    Do you see it this way? What are these athletes doing? Players can't seem to stay on the field for more than a couple of weeks. In football, they don't seem to last for more than a couple of quarters and they're going down. And when players go out, they don't go into "rehab" for 2 weeks, or 2 months. They seem to disappear forever. It's starting to bleed into basketball now. Knees, ligaments, muscles. It seems to be mushrooming.

    My outsider's take is that athletes today are obsessed with weight training. I'm sure there is some flexibility training going on, but in BB the pitchers want to throw 100 MPH and the hitters just want to hit homeruns. Extra weight training is the logical choice for most athletes, maybe especially in BB, after PED testing got so stringent and the they don't want to take the risk. I don't know that much about Chris Young but I watched Harvey when he was in NY. My impression of him was that he was simply muscle bound. That's all there was to it. Why make it more complicated than need be?

    Whatever conditioning programs the athletes are using these days, they're obviously not working. Why do they continue to do the same thing and even seemingly double down on it?

    Ichiro Suzuki retired this summer. (One of the greatest athletes to play the game and it hardly created a blip on the radar.) He used equipment that allowed him to stretch every muscle of his body simultaneously. He may have used weights to some extent, but he was going for strength through increased energetic coherence. He was never injured. In 12 or 13 years in MLB he was not once on the disabled list for a baseball related injury. Not a blip on the radar anywhere. He might just as well not have existed.

    I don't think that diet and supplementation are intrinsic solutions to problems like a lot of people here do, but it's not unimportant by any means. But I'm not the one to give you good advice along those lines. Muscle atrophy, in and of itself as a stress related issue, is something you'll find a lot of good information about here. The numbness sounds like nerves, but I'd caution about jumping to conclusions about it.

    As I mentioned, why make this more complicated than it has to be? Put length back into a system first, then strengthen. If I were the athlete, I'd be training for resilience and energetic coherence. There's something causing these problems in athletics today and it's not just about diet. It's a seriously mismanaged structural ecology. Way, way too much weights. Less is more.
     
  13. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    7,828
    Dr. Peat has explained how low thyroid increases these types of injuries and syndromes. I think he is right and it is easy to check.
     
  14. OP
    Kt400

    Kt400 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    Messages:
    49
    Gender:
    Male
    if you scroll up i said my t3 and t4 levels are in normal range
     
  15. OP
    Kt400

    Kt400 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    Messages:
    49
    Gender:
    Male
    If you think weight and power training doesn't allow you to play this game at a higher level and for a longer time there is no point in arguing here. Ichiro Suzuki had that power naturally. He was not allowed to play last year because that power has diminished. Sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about if you think stretching will allow you to play an explosive sport that is becoming more and more athletic
     
  16. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    7,828
    Doesn’t mean you aren’t low thyroid.
     
  17. David PS

    David PS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2016
    Messages:
    425
    Gender:
    Male
    If this is a bilateral issue, my guess is that it it related to your workouts. The muscles in your shoulders may be imbalanced and need to be stretched. Although I do not recommend purchasing the book linked below, it is useful to note that the author is a retired Orthopedic Surgeon and he considers "dead hangs" to be very useful for shoulder issues. Read the reviews. https://www.amazon.com/Shoulder-Sol...r+pain+the+solution+and+prevention.+dr+kirsch

    Tight shoulders can interfere with posture and cause strange patterns of pain. Dead hangs would be a a cheap fix if it works for your issue.

    There are a number of videos that suggest that dead hangs are good for more than just shoulder issues. dead hang pain - YouTube T

    Best of luck
     
  18. OP
    Kt400

    Kt400 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    Messages:
    49
    Gender:
    Male
    "Causing these problems in athletics tosat" what do you mean? Athletes are healthier and stronger than ever. You speak with no evid
    Ive done plenty of chins ups and dead hangs the last several years. I don't see how it could be muscle imbalance. when I turn my neck side to side my pulse drops. You have to understand stuff like hangs and planks not only strengthens your stabilizers, but it also allows you to control larger ranges of motion which then allows you to have more mobility. Stretching is overrated. For example someone that does a sideplank with a leg raise can improve internal rotation only after a few reps. Stretching does not allow you to do that. Therefore stretching sucks. I am not some meathead who just goes into a gym and benches. There is a lot of corrective exercises involved daily.
     
  19. OP
    Kt400

    Kt400 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    Messages:
    49
    Gender:
    Male
    Then what metrics are you asking?
     
  20. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    7,828
    waking and a few daytime temps and heart rate
     
Loading...