High Vitamin D, Low TSH, But Still Low Testosterone?

[lampofred]

Hi all,

I finally got a blood test to try to figure out why my focus is so poor and why I so quickly get excess estrogen symptoms whenever I stop using progesterone, and I found out I have extremely low testosterone. 310 ng/dL at 22 years old. (I took the blood test after stopping progesterone use for several months, so I don't think progesterone was reducing my testosterone levels.)

My TSH is .6, my vitamin D is 80, and my blood glucose is 87, all of which seem to be really good, so does anyone know why else my testosterone might be so low? My TSH is low, my temps are in the 98s (99s after a big meal), and my pulse is in the 70s (80s-90s after large meals), so I don't think it's hypothyroidism.

I think my testosterone is rapidly aromatizing (instead of low steroid production in general) because I have several high estrogen symptoms. I'm not overweight (165 pounds at 5'10"), my thyroid seems to be working well, and my vitamin D levels are high, so I'm not sure why there's so much aromatase.

I do have low cholesterol (125) even though I have a high fructose intake, so maybe that's the root of the issue? But I'm not sure how else to increase cholesterol.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Blossom]

In addition to fructose do you eat plenty of cholesterol and vitamin A rich foods?

 

[lampofred]

In addition to fructose do you eat plenty of cholesterol and vitamin A rich foods?

I eat calf liver a couple of times a month and at least 3-4 eggs/week.

 

[Blossom]

I eat calf liver a couple of times a month and at least 3-4 eggs/week.

That's good. Maybe increasing the eggs to one or two daily cooked in butter would help? Hopefully others will have some ideas to share.

 

[Hans]

Hi all,

I finally got a blood test to try to figure out why my focus is so poor and why I so quickly get excess estrogen symptoms whenever I stop using progesterone, and I found out I have extremely low testosterone. 310 ng/dL at 22 years old. (I took the blood test after stopping progesterone use for several months, so I don't think progesterone was reducing my testosterone levels.)

My TSH is .6, my vitamin D is 80, and my blood glucose is 87, all of which seem to be really good, so does anyone know why else my testosterone might be so low? My TSH is low, my temps are in the 98s (99s after a big meal), and my pulse is in the 70s (80s-90s after large meals), so I don't think it's hypothyroidism.

I think my testosterone is rapidly aromatizing (instead of low steroid production in general) because I have several high estrogen symptoms. I'm not overweight (165 pounds at 5'10"), my thyroid seems to be working well, and my vitamin D levels are high, so I'm not sure why there's so much aromatase.

I do have low cholesterol (125) even though I have a high fructose intake, so maybe that's the root of the issue? But I'm not sure how else to increase cholesterol.

Thanks for reading.

How do the rest of your micro look like, for instance, zinc, mg, selenium, calcium, B vitamins and what is your macro ratio.

 

[Nicolas Noyola]

do you have a cronometer? that might be helpful. Describe the 'excess estrogen' symptoms.

 

[lampofred]

How do the rest of your micro look like, for instance, zinc, mg, selenium, calcium, B vitamins and what is your macro ratio.

do you have a cronometer? that might be helpful. Describe the 'excess estrogen' symptoms.

I used to track everything in Cronometer several months ago, but I've stopped. I generally get around 2000 calories though, and the majority of my carbs are from orange juice, and the majority of my protein is from 2% milk and eggs. The lesser half of my carbs come from white rice or potatoes, and the lesser half of my protein comes from cheese, or more infrequently, beef or lamb. I sometimes eat Haagen Daaz ice cream or popcorn/noodles made with palm oil, and the only fat I use for cooking is butter. I should be more consistent with my daily carrot, but I probably eat 1 carrot every 2-3 days. I eat out probably 3 times a week, but I make sure to avoid foods cooked in vegetable oil -- so Indian food cooked with butter, Italian food cooked with olive oil, grilled barbecue, etc. I realize 2000 calories is not much for a 22 year old male, but I can't force myself to eat more even if I try. I probably get around 60-80 grams of protein (80-100 is too much for me, and it feels like too much of my tryptophan is converting to serotonin). I occasionally get protein via gelatin but not daily. My diet isn't absolutely perfect, but I don't think any more micro-managing than this should be necessary... I've tried both high fat and low fat, and neither made a difference, but aside from that, diet-wise I think the one thing that may help is increasing caloric intake, but I physically can't eat any more than 2000 a day unless I eat PUFA/starch.

Excess estrogen symptoms are fat storage on hips and lower body, low physical strength, poor sleep/poor concentration due to low GABA/excess glutatmate, and body aches.

I just realized I'm fixing my issues in the reverse order in which they arose... First this diet helped me fix my hair loss, then insulin resistance, and now I'm trying to fix mainly my issues with sleep and focus (fat storage and physical strength is secondary).

 

[Hans]

I used to track everything in Cronometer several months ago, but I've stopped. I generally get around 2000 calories though, and the majority of my carbs are from orange juice, and the majority of my protein is from 2% milk and eggs. The lesser half of my carbs come from white rice or potatoes, and the lesser half of my protein comes from cheese, or more infrequently, beef or lamb. I sometimes eat Haagen Daaz ice cream or popcorn/noodles made with palm oil, and the only fat I use for cooking is butter. I should be more consistent with my daily carrot, but I probably eat 1 carrot every 2-3 days. I eat out probably 3 times a week, but I make sure to avoid foods cooked in vegetable oil -- so Indian food cooked with butter, Italian food cooked with olive oil, grilled barbecue, etc. I realize 2000 calories is not much for a 22 year old male, but I can't force myself to eat more even if I try. I probably get around 60-80 grams of protein (80-100 is too much for me, and it feels like too much of my tryptophan is converting to serotonin). I occasionally get protein via gelatin but not daily. My diet isn't absolutely perfect, but I don't think any more micro-managing than this should be necessary... I've tried both high fat and low fat, and neither made a difference, but aside from that, diet-wise I think the one thing that may help is increasing caloric intake, but I physically can't eat any more than 2000 a day unless I eat PUFA/starch.

Excess estrogen symptoms are fat storage on hips and lower body, low physical strength, poor sleep/poor concentration due to low GABA/excess glutatmate, and body aches.

I just realized I'm fixing my issues in the reverse order in which they arose... First this diet helped me fix my hair loss, then insulin resistance, and now I'm trying to fix mainly my issues with sleep and focus (fat storage and physical strength is secondary).

How do you feel if you do eat starches?

 

[lampofred]

How do you feel if you do eat starches?

I can get in a bit more calories if I eat starches, but it doesn't really make a difference for sleep or focus.

 

[lampofred]

Has anyone ever tried a cholesterol supplement? Do those even exist?

 

[Nicolas Noyola]

I used to track everything in Cronometer several months ago, but I've stopped. I generally get around 2000 calories though, and the majority of my carbs are from orange juice, and the majority of my protein is from 2% milk and eggs. The lesser half of my carbs come from white rice or potatoes, and the lesser half of my protein comes from cheese, or more infrequently, beef or lamb. I sometimes eat Haagen Daaz ice cream or popcorn/noodles made with palm oil, and the only fat I use for cooking is butter. I should be more consistent with my daily carrot, but I probably eat 1 carrot every 2-3 days. I eat out probably 3 times a week, but I make sure to avoid foods cooked in vegetable oil -- so Indian food cooked with butter, Italian food cooked with olive oil, grilled barbecue, etc. I realize 2000 calories is not much for a 22 year old male, but I can't force myself to eat more even if I try. I probably get around 60-80 grams of protein (80-100 is too much for me, and it feels like too much of my tryptophan is converting to serotonin). I occasionally get protein via gelatin but not daily. My diet isn't absolutely perfect, but I don't think any more micro-managing than this should be necessary... I've tried both high fat and low fat, and neither made a difference, but aside from that, diet-wise I think the one thing that may help is increasing caloric intake, but I physically can't eat any more than 2000 a day unless I eat PUFA/starch.

Excess estrogen symptoms are fat storage on hips and lower body, low physical strength, poor sleep/poor concentration due to low GABA/excess glutatmate, and body aches.

I just realized I'm fixing my issues in the reverse order in which they arose... First this diet helped me fix my hair loss, then insulin resistance, and now I'm trying to fix mainly my issues with sleep and focus (fat storage and physical strength is secondary).

do you have a stressful occupation? how is your digestion, no constipation? do you urinate often or too little? is your urine clear? you mentioned experiencing estrogen symptoms whenever you stop progesterone; the calcium-magnesium ratio affects progesterone levels, and magnesium levels are affected by sodium intake. low magnesium can cause poor sleep, although if you have high vitamin D idk if you necessarily have low magnesium, unless you're supplementing it. do you have a healthy libido, or is it poor, concurrent with your high estrogen?
sorry if this is too many questions

 

[Blossom]

Has anyone ever tried a cholesterol supplement? Do those even exist?

Yes one exists from @LifeGivingStore.

 

[Blossom]

Cholesterol Powder - Steroid Hormone Precursor Available For Lab/Research Use
I haven't used it but I like the quality of their other products I've tried.

 

[lampofred]

Cholesterol Powder - Steroid Hormone Precursor Available For Lab/Research Use
I haven't used it but I like the quality of their other products I've tried.

Yes one exists from @LifeGivingStore.

Thanks for this, I'll check it out

do you have a stressful occupation? how is your digestion, no constipation? do you urinate often or too little? is your urine clear? you mentioned experiencing estrogen symptoms whenever you stop progesterone; the calcium-magnesium ratio affects progesterone levels, and magnesium levels are affected by sodium intake. low magnesium can cause poor sleep, although if you have high vitamin D idk if you necessarily have low magnesium, unless you're supplementing it. do you have a healthy libido, or is it poor, concurrent with your high estrogen?
sorry if this is too many questions

I'm a consultant, so it's slightly stressful in that I have to travel regularly and some weeks require long hours but overall it's nothing crazy like 80-100 hour work weeks. The work itself isn't stressful, but what is stressful is the fact that I can't focus to get my stuff done and there's enormous pressure for me not to lose my job because it would be terrible for my career to get fired from my first job out of college

I think my digestion could be better, I do occasionally get bloated if I don't space out my milk intake throughout the day. Do you think I should try antibiotics or something?

I urinate pretty normally and it's a light yellow, I never wake up in the middle of the night to use the restroom or anything like that.

Interesting about the salt, I do tend to not get much salt when I'm drinking OJ and milk, and I do supplement Vit D, so I might not be retaining magnesium very well (I do get plenty of magnesium in my diet though).

My libido isn't that great, but I don't know if it's because of the low T or because of how concerned I am about being able to focus and keep my job

Definitely not too many questions, thanks for your time & interest

 

[Nicolas Noyola]

Thanks for this, I'll check it out



I'm a consultant, so it's slightly stressful in that I have to travel regularly and some weeks require long hours but overall it's nothing crazy like 80-100 hour work weeks. The work itself isn't stressful, but what is stressful is the fact that I can't focus to get my stuff done and there's enormous pressure for me not to lose my job because it would be terrible for my career to get fired from my first job out of college

I think my digestion could be better, I do occasionally get bloated if I don't space out my milk intake throughout the day. Do you think I should try antibiotics or something?

I urinate pretty normally and it's a light yellow, I never wake up in the middle of the night to use the restroom or anything like that.

Interesting about the salt, I do tend to not get much salt when I'm drinking OJ and milk, and I do supplement Vit D, so I might not be retaining magnesium very well (I do get plenty of magnesium in my diet though).

My libido isn't that great, but I don't know if it's because of the low T or because of how concerned I am about being able to focus and keep my job

Definitely not too many questions, thanks for your time & interest

if you supplement vitamin D then that could be the issue, compounded by things like low magnesium retention. Alot of people say that 10,000 iu is safe but if i may humbly say so, my personal experience has led me to believe that's not true for every individual, I've had bad experiences on 5000 iu a day. Over prolonged periods granted, but issues nonetheless, mostly calcification and magnesium deficiency-type symptoms, like muscle spasms and poor sleep. Which also reminds me : What exactly are the units for that '80' number for vit. D? Is that ng/dl or nmol/L? The mortality studies and other studies I've seen regarding vitamin D's benefits mostly point to levels around 40-50 ng/dl or 80-100 nmol/L being optimal. Testosterone increases linearly up to 100 nmol/l iirc. Cognitive studies quote similar numbers as well. But if you have 80 ng/dl that could be a bit too high (normal range for 25 hydroxy-vitamin D is 30-74 ng/dl). 80 nmol/L however would be fine. I could comment more but for brevity's sake i wont, knowing how much in IU you are intaking would be useful!

 

[alywest]

Is there a reason why you stopped taking progesterone? That would prevent the formation of estrogen if anything. But also, DHEA is well known to turn into testosterone if taken in the correct amounts and if balanced with pregnenolone or progesterone as in pansterone or cortinon. It should convert to testosterone, androsterone, etc. without aromatizing into estrogen. About 15 drops a day of either would be good for that purpose. Taking more than that has been shown to convert to testosterone. But they are both affordable and natural. I don't know your age, but since you're male I think DHEA levels start dropping at age 20. Also, there are studies where they have reliably shown that DHEA supplementation results in testosterone increases. They have tested it in conjunction with athletic doping to see if there is any way that an athlete might achieve high levels of testosterone simply from DHEA, as it's an over the counter supplement.
Look up "Oral Dehydroepiandrosterone supplementation can increase the testosterone/epitestosterone ratio" It explains how oral DHEA administration increased testosterone pretty significantly in fairly low doses. However, topical DHEA may not reflect in serum tests or urine tests as it bypasses the liver and goes straight into the muscle, so it's possible that you have more of certain steroids than you think if it's in the tissue. If you're having estrogenic symptoms, though, I think the recommendation for magnesium is really solid. Taking B1, magnesium and niacinamide could really help you get better sleep. Magnesium helps to convert the estrogen for excretion, whereas the B1 will increase CO2, and the niacinamide will prevent you from oxidizing PUFA while you sleep, so it's a great combo. I take 1,500 mg of thiamine when I am having sleep issues, particularly when estrogen is high during my luteal phase of the month. Solgar makes a decent one that comes in 500 mg pills.
Also interesting, @Nicolas Noyola about the excess of vitamin D. I agree, I find that supplementing 2000-3000 iu per day is plenty, and magnesium is really important for the balance.

 

[lampofred]

if you supplement vitamin D then that could be the issue, compounded by things like low magnesium retention. Alot of people say that 10,000 iu is safe but if i may humbly say so, my personal experience has led me to believe that's not true for every individual, I've had bad experiences on 5000 iu a day. Over prolonged periods granted, but issues nonetheless, mostly calcification and magnesium deficiency-type symptoms, like muscle spasms and poor sleep. Which also reminds me : What exactly are the units for that '80' number for vit. D? Is that ng/dl or nmol/L? The mortality studies and other studies I've seen regarding vitamin D's benefits mostly point to levels around 40-50 ng/dl or 80-100 nmol/L being optimal. Testosterone increases linearly up to 100 nmol/l iirc. Cognitive studies quote similar numbers as well. But if you have 80 ng/dl that could be a bit too high (normal range for 25 hydroxy-vitamin D is 30-74 ng/dl). 80 nmol/L however would be fine. I could comment more but for brevity's sake i wont, knowing how much in IU you are intaking would be useful!

It's ng/mL, so it does seem pretty high. I supplement either 1 or 2 drops of Carlson's 2000 IU drops per day, so an average of 3000 IU per day. I get barely any sunlight.

My eyes are always twitching, and my muscles in general are always sore, so I think a magnesium deficiency is definitely possible... I don't get much salt, so I'll try consistently supplementing salt each day to see if that will help me retain my magnesium.

Is there a reason why you stopped taking progesterone? That would prevent the formation of estrogen if anything. But also, DHEA is well known to turn into testosterone if taken in the correct amounts and if balanced with pregnenolone or progesterone as in pansterone or cortinon. It should convert to testosterone, androsterone, etc. without aromatizing into estrogen. About 15 drops a day of either would be good for that purpose. Taking more than that has been shown to convert to testosterone. But they are both affordable and natural. I don't know your age, but since you're male I think DHEA levels start dropping at age 20. Also, there are studies where they have reliably shown that DHEA supplementation results in testosterone increases. They have tested it in conjunction with athletic doping to see if there is any way that an athlete might achieve high levels of testosterone simply from DHEA, as it's an over the counter supplement.
Look up "Oral Dehydroepiandrosterone supplementation can increase the testosterone/epitestosterone ratio" It explains how oral DHEA administration increased testosterone pretty significantly in fairly low doses. However, topical DHEA may not reflect in serum tests or urine tests as it bypasses the liver and goes straight into the muscle, so it's possible that you have more of certain steroids than you think if it's in the tissue. If you're having estrogenic symptoms, though, I think the recommendation for magnesium is really solid. Taking B1, magnesium and niacinamide could really help you get better sleep. Magnesium helps to convert the estrogen for excretion, whereas the B1 will increase CO2, and the niacinamide will prevent you from oxidizing PUFA while you sleep, so it's a great combo. I take 1,500 mg of thiamine when I am having sleep issues, particularly when estrogen is high during my luteal phase of the month. Solgar makes a decent one that comes in 500 mg pills.
Also interesting, @Nicolas Noyola about the excess of vitamin D. I agree, I find that supplementing 2000-3000 iu per day is plenty, and magnesium is really important for the balance.

Stopped progesterone mainly because of Dr. Peat's warnings about how young men shouldn't take it for too prolonged of a time period. I also started looking extremely young (definitely not a bad thing) but it got to the point that I could pass for a 15 year old even though I'm 22, and I was scared I would start looking pre-pubertal if I kept continuing it. No negative side effects at all in terms of reduced muscle, breast growth, or anything like that at all suggesting excessive test antagonism though.

I occasionally take a B complex and niacinamide, and they don't help in terms of my low testosterone symptoms, but niacinamide does help my cognition a lot, which points to excess aromatization because I think Dr. Peat said estrogen is what lowers endogenous niacin synthesis. I'm scared to take DHEA because I suspect it will very easily aromatize in my case, but I will definitely do more to retain magnesium/replenish my mag stores.

Thanks for the responses so far!

 

[Sourdoughbanana]

FYI a high fructose intake, meaning a rather high liver glycogen, powerfully lowers SHBG. I think there’s a sweet spot balancing out fructose intake with how active and muscular you are.

On top of the issue above, 2000kcal and a stressful job is super low. I wouldn’t be surprised if dhea and Cortisol were out of whack.

Try to get a full hormonal panel with SHBG, and prolactin as well.

 

[foodandtheworld]

I agree with @Sourdoughbanana , 2000 calories + a stressful job + being 22 (where you are still growing like crazy) could be the culprit. Why not try boosting calories for a while and seeing if there's any difference. If you've been eating only 2000 calories for years, that could definitely be the reason, since the body during the late teens and early twenties needs a lot of energy. After a period of undereating, I had to consume at least 3000 calories, and sometimes even 4000 and 5000 calories (though more briefly), for my body to 'restart'. Now I don't need as much, but it was crucial to kickstart things and have a consistently high temperature without supplementing thyroid.

 

[baccheion]

Do you take vitamin D with vitamin K(2 MK-4; 10 IU : 2 mcg+) and magnesium? An overactive thyroid can lower testosterone.