Low PTH, Low D, High Calcium - How Is It Possible?

Bogdar

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Hey, recently I took a test for vit D & PTH to check if I need supplements.

Well, D came juste above the lower range,
PTH came at the very low range,
Screenshot_20201203_221537.jpg

What I thought about this data was : that's good, PTH is low so it's good and this D is in normal range and seems enough to down the PTH so all good. But as it was low range I started supplementing 3k UI/day, lasted 2 months until this new blood test.

In this bloodtest, doctor checked my calcium. And the calcium is above the range.
Screenshot_20201203_221506.jpg
My vit D lowered a little bit despite supplements (tho it could be explained by the variance in each labs, I did the test in a different city).
Screenshot_20201203_221756.jpg
I don't think PTH could be really high in that short time, right? I didn't change much except D supplement so at best PTH lowered.

From my understanding, high blood calcium means high PTH because of lacks of dietary calcium and or absorption that could be caused by vit D deficiency.

How can I have both very low PTH and very high calcium? Thanks!
 

mrchibbs

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Well it seems understandable to me. You already have high blood calcium, so your PTH probably doesn't need to be elevated to extract extra calcium from your bones. And your vitamin D is low enough that you can't utilize the calcium properly and therefore it accumulates in the circulation. The vitamin D supplement could also have a PTH-suppressing effect, as you've alluded to. It could do so despite not being able to bring up your vitamin D levels.

PTH rises when there isn't enough available calcium, which is not the case in your situation.

At any rate, it's just one blood test, and it could be vastly different next time you test it. It's clear that you need to work on increasing your serum vitamin D levels, and oral supplementation may not be doing the job. A combination of topical + UVB light exposure may be needed.
 

Grischbal

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Well it seems understandable to me. You already have high blood calcium, so your PTH probably doesn't need to be elevated to extract extra calcium from your bones. And your vitamin D is low enough that you can't utilize the calcium properly and therefore it accumulates in the circulation. The vitamin D supplement could also have a PTH-suppressing effect, as you've alluded to. It could do so despite not being able to bring up your vitamin D levels.

PTH rises when there isn't enough available calcium, which is not the case in your situation.

At any rate, it's just one blood test, and it could be vastly different next time you test it. It's clear that you need to work on increasing your serum vitamin D levels, and oral supplementation may not be doing the job. A combination of topical + UVB light exposure may be needed.
Do you have good experience with topicals?
 

mrchibbs

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Do you have good experience with topicals?

Relatively speaking yeah, I feel much better with topical D3 (in MCT oil) as opposed to oral D3.
 
OP
Bogdar

Bogdar

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Well it seems understandable to me. You already have high blood calcium, so your PTH probably doesn't need to be elevated to extract extra calcium from your bones. And your vitamin D is low enough that you can't utilize the calcium properly and therefore it accumulates in the circulation. The vitamin D supplement could also have a PTH-suppressing effect, as you've alluded to. It could do so despite not being able to bring up your vitamin D levels.

PTH rises when there isn't enough available calcium, which is not the case in your situation.

At any rate, it's just one blood test, and it could be vastly different next time you test it. It's clear that you need to work on increasing your serum vitamin D levels, and oral supplementation may not be doing the job. A combination of topical + UVB light exposure may be needed.
But WHY do I have high blood calcium "already" ? In my understanding, blood calcium is tightly regulated, independantly from the dietary intake. From what I knew, the "only" way to have high blood calcium is because of the PTH. Calcium shouldn't be elevated otherwise !
Do vitamin D helps utilize the calcium ? I know it helps absorbing it through the intestines, but I didnt know this function. Could you develop on this ?
I heard what I'm telling right now on a video of Chris masterjohn if I remember correctly

how much calcium are you currently eating?

Recently and for some months I've been eating quite low calcium. I stopped dairies many months ago, so the only source was from some legumes. Idk it was maybe 200 300mg per day ? Then I checked PTH and saw it was low, so I was confident that I wasn't killing myself haha, and recently I reintroduced mineral water so my intake went up to ~700-800mg per day, since only couple weeks.
 
OP
Bogdar

Bogdar

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Of course I click and first thing is thyroid tumor ! Damn internet !

Well, I have normal range magnesium, maybe it's just that I don't get enough calcium and my PTH goes up & down by successives feedbacks... Who knows...

Guess Imma eat more calcium, and as mrchibbs suggested, some topical or UVB sessions. :(
 

Grischbal

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Relatively speaking yeah, I feel much better with topical D3 (in MCT oil) as opposed to oral D3.
I have the d3 k2 mk7 in mct oil. I think Peat somewhere said that k2 topically potentuates regeneration of mitochondria
 

Mito

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Of course I click and first thing is thyroid tumor ! Damn internet !

Well, I have normal range magnesium, maybe it's just that I don't get enough calcium and my PTH goes up & down by successives feedbacks... Who knows...

Guess Imma eat more calcium, and as mrchibbs suggested, some topical or UVB sessions. :(
If the blood test was serum magnesium it doesn’t reflect your magnesium status because magnesium is an intracellular mineral. Red blood cell magnesium is not ideal either, but it’s is a much better indication of intracellular magnesium.
 

Seekinghealth

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When looking at these values I would hypothetically think the following:

Low PTH: coupled with high calcium could look like some sort of (Alkali) - Syndrome. Espacially as VIT is D is lowered. I'd think that the body does not want the additional calcium at this time. When total blood PH is high, bicarbonate can still be reabsorbed. This is why it is hard to break a metb. alkalosis as it is self perpetuating. Keeping the cycle of high PH going , as in less additional ionized calcium instead of bound, which in my understanding is what PTH reacts to.

Either way I would be curious; about phosphorus, chloride and other minerals in the blood. Perhaps ionized calcium even!

Do you have symptoms with regards to these values?
 
Last edited:

Wilfrid

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Do you have any value for your calcitonin hormone? It can help tremendously to find what’s going on with your condition.
Like @Seekinghealth rightfully said, metabolic acidosis stimulates while metabolic alkalosis inhibits PTH secretion.
Knowing your calcitonin can confirm this kind of Alkali-syndrome.
Since calcium stimulates calcitonin secretion and suppresses PTH secretion, the effects of acidosis and alkalosis is reversed from that of PTH (ie: alkalosis stimulating and acidosis suppressing calcitonin secretion).
 

Wilfrid

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Do you have a recent history of extreme dieting? Something like high fat/high protein/low carbohydrates?
 

gaze

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I asked ray over email about what causes high calcium with low PTH and he said cortisol and prolactin
 

gaze

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What are you doing about it now?
I increased carbs and fat to lower cortisol. More calories basically. nowadays the carbs I eat are rice potatoes oats OJ white sugar and lactose, the proteins I eat are milk, cheese, chicken, beef, and cod. I cut eggs cause I always felt like they raise cortisol for me personally. And then the fats I eat are only butter and whatever fat in the beef. I feel better now than I did on no starch, which is when I had high calcium but low PTH. Salt increased too cause I could put alot of salt in starch, which helps alot and tastes better than salt in OJ
 

NathanK

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When looking at these values I would hypothetically think the following:

Low PTH: coupled with high calcium could look like some sort of (Alkali) - Syndrome. Espacially as VIT is D is lowered. I'd think that the body does not want the additional calcium at this time. When total blood PH is high, bicarbonate can still be reabsorbed. This is why it is hard to break a metb. alkalosis as it is self perpetuating. Keeping the cycle of high PH going , as in less additional ionized calcium instead of bound, which in my understanding is what PTH reacts to.

Either way I would be curious; about phosphorus, chloride and other minerals in the blood. Perhaps ionized calcium even!
This is I'm pretty sure happened to me in 2019 when I had very similar labs to OP.
 

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