[Non Peat] Undermethylators, Ketogenesis

[Peata]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

I think Natural Calm is an ionized magnesium. It's the only mag I took out of many kinds and forms that ever did anything noticeable for me - as in feeling nice and calm and balanced, sleeping well and having a nice bm the next morning.

 

[CoolTweetPete]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

post 113610 I think Natural Calm is an ionized magnesium. It's the only mag I took out of many kinds and forms that ever did anything noticeable for me - as in feeling nice and calm and balanced, sleeping well and having a nice bm the next morning.

Yup, Natural Calm is great. It's the kind I took before bed last night with P5P. Definitely think the P5P helped because normally that large of a dose would give me some nausea, instead I simply passed out lol.

 

[charlie]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

post 113600 I just take a tablespoon of organic hemp oil and a teaspoon of sunflower oil,...

Do you think olive oil would work for this?

 

[Peata]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

post 113614

post 113610 I think Natural Calm is an ionized magnesium. It's the only mag I took out of many kinds and forms that ever did anything noticeable for me - as in feeling nice and calm and balanced, sleeping well and having a nice bm the next morning.

Yup, Natural Calm is great. It's the kind I took before bed last night with P5P. Definitely think the P5P helped because normally that large of a dose would give me some nausea, instead I simply passed out lol.

I would use one of those single dose packets here and there (they kept them by the register at the hfs so I'd buy one now and then). I don't know why I never just bought the whole container of it but I do have it on order now. I plan to just take the same amount that was in the single dose packets, as that worked well for me, no nausea or anything). I believe it was 1.5 teas.

 

[zooma]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

Is there a reason for using ionised magnesium?

I've never seen it suggested by Ray or any of our other knowledgeable posters when talking about magnesium intake/supplements.

Thanks for sharing your experiences, it's always great when we get some fresh ideas to explore. I have to say I'm very skeptical about phospholipid exchange though. I would love to see a response from Haidut or similar (I haven't read the whole thread yet so I apologise if there has already been).

 

[Agent207]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

I just take a tablespoon of organic hemp oil and a teaspoon of sunflower oil, with the magnesium and P5P. I tried the cod liver oil the other day to compare, and I felt blocked up and enraged.

What time do you take this phospholipid exchange? just before bed with magnesium and b6?

 

[kineticz]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

Undermethylators have very bad assimilation of standard oral supplements, particularly magnesium because of it's synergy with the methyl B vitamins.

Liposomal glutathione does not reduce internal production, and I feel it is very effective for locking up oxidative stress while you work to maximise intracellular magnesium, so that the transsulfuration pathway can become self sustaining. Transsulfuration increases (the taurine/glutathione pathway) when the angiotensin is reduced in the kidneys, via reducing calcium deposits and improving ATP delivery to the brain. Glutathione has been shown to be very effective in reducing kidney oxidative stress. P5P and mag reduce homocysteine which promotes vasoconstriction and heart disease, further reducing ATP to the brain.

Then you can look to boost the other aspects of methylation, and thyroid absorption.

 

[kineticz]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

post 113615

post 113600 I just take a tablespoon of organic hemp oil and a teaspoon of sunflower oil,...

Do you think olive oil would work for this?

Wouldn't know about this Charlie, I think hemp is the only oil closest to the 4:1 ratio for the brain ATP delivery system. Hemp is 3.8:1. The drop of sunflower oil is to make up to 4.

 

[kineticz]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

post 113620

I just take a tablespoon of organic hemp oil and a teaspoon of sunflower oil, with the magnesium and P5P. I tried the cod liver oil the other day to compare, and I felt blocked up and enraged.

What time do you take this phospholipid exchange? just before bed with magnesium and b6?

Exactly right. I then take K2 in the morning to 'mop up' any potential calcium deposits that occurred during the long sleep 'fasting'.


Also it's important that I advise do not start folate or B12 until your glutathione stores and magnesium/sodium pumps are in top shape.

The repairs performed by B12 are very taxxing on cell membrane performance and you can promote a collapse of the methylation cycle, starting all over again. Also, as Ray points out, it's not wise to mess with DNA.

The transsulfuration pathway does not involve DNA repair so is totally safe, and allows thyroid absorption to improve. :) The choline base of liposomal glutathione will remethylate your homocysteine, producing creatine and carnitine for a healthy heart, while the B6 and mag produce taurine and glutathione.

Reducing angiotensin by increasing transsulfuration will reduce calcium deposits and the atrophy effects of cortisol. G6PDH will also increase so you should tolerate pregnenolone better since this enzyme locks in glutathione and synthesises glucose in red blood cells via NADH, preventing diabetes.

This, I believe, solves the mystery of why some people report depersonalisation when taking pregnenolone. Their G6PDH enzyme is poor.

A cell that locks in magnesium and glutathione is a cell ready to produce more ATP and pregnenolone. This is the key to longevity.

 

[YuraCZ]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

Heh I can't eat high fat at all. Today after eating veggies, chicken breast and 30g of butter I had sharp chest pain on the left side. I have really serious problem with dirty cardiovascular system at 29yo ****...

 

[kineticz]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

I don't advise a high fat diet. I advise effective fat metabolism. You can't simply switch diets and expect anything to improve.

 

[kineticz]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

Thanks for sharing your experiences, it's always great when we get some fresh ideas to explore. I have to say I'm very skeptical about phospholipid exchange though. I would love to see a response from Haidut or similar (I haven't read the whole thread yet so I apologise if there has already been).

Instead of being sceptical, just try it. You already know the arguments against PUFA. Cod liver oil for example is rubbish. Tablespoon of hemp, teaspoon of sunflower, with 25ml ionised mag, and 50mg P5P before bed. Welcome to proper sleep.

It helps me, and clearly a few other members already. This is why I'm willing to continue to discuss. Phospholipid exchange amplifies the effects of the mag/P5P by a factor of about 4 in me. What's lacking from the PUFA debate is an understanding of how methylation responds to an under-nourished brain.

Whether you believe in cell membrane pumps or not, the entry point of ATP to the brain is made of EFAs in a certain ratio. You can't deny that we have examined a brain and found EFAs.

http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Brain_fo ... learly_etc

 

[Miggie]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

Hey Kineticz,

I want to give this a go. Right now I take magnesium chloride but it just gives me the shits. Will this lessen over time as my cells replenish themselves n magnesium? Can I keep using magnesium chloride as a substitute for ionised magnesium? I already have p5p and just took a pill of that today.

I'm going to buy some hemp oil and sunflower oil soon as well. But from what I understand it can be done without so its not a complete waste that I dont have this right now.

 

[YuraCZ]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

post 113627 I don't advise a high fat diet. I advise effective fat metabolism. You can't simply switch diets and expect anything to improve.

You don't advise a high fat diet, but you also limit carbs to around 100g a day? So your body uses as fuel glucose through gluconeogenesis.. Can you explain this please? I really appreciate your posts in this topic. 2 days ago I had no clue about methylation process and how for example are B vitamins( how bad is folic acid from supplements) important etc.. But I can't live on 2000 kcal from lean meat and vegetables..

 

[kineticz]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

post 113630 Hey Kineticz,

I want to give this a go. Right now I take magnesium chloride but it just gives me the shits. Will this lessen over time as my cells replenish themselves n magnesium? Can I keep using magnesium chloride as a substitute for ionised magnesium? I already have p5p and just took a pill of that today.

I'm going to buy some hemp oil and sunflower oil soon as well. But from what I understand it can be done without so its not a complete waste that I dont have this right now.

You are experiencing the shits because your magnesium is staying in serum, increasing gut motility excessively.

You must work on INTRACELLULAR magnesium. This requires better quality magnesium to begin with.

Anyone who wishes to get a better starting point and feels in a bit of a mess, first take some liposomal glutathione to clear the pathways so that ionised magnesium and P5P can gain access to cells.

It's important to simultaneously reduce calcium deposits and angiotensin while giving the transsulfuration pathway a kickstart. Glutathione is central to this. It locks away oxidative stress so that you can then perform the phospholipid exchange and intracellular magnesium therapy.

All of this means happier kidneys, more DHEA, less cortisol, more sodium retention, so better ATP in the long term.

 

[YuraCZ]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

post 113630 Hey Kineticz,

I want to give this a go. Right now I take magnesium chloride but it just gives me the shits. Will this lessen over time as my cells replenish themselves n magnesium? Can I keep using magnesium chloride as a substitute for ionised magnesium? I already have p5p and just took a pill of that today.

I'm going to buy some hemp oil and sunflower oil soon as well. But from what I understand it can be done without so its not a complete waste that I dont have this right now.

Best way is hot bath with 100-200g of magnesium chloride as often as possible..

 

[kineticz]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

Magnesium bath salts are good alone but not near as optimal as combined with a phospholipid exchange, ionised magnesium, and P5P. Liposomal glutathione to give you a head start.


We must reduce the angiotensin and ammonia use of homocysteine to create taurine and glutathione in the liver. It's called the methylation deadlock by pioneers because of the reliance of ATP to drive methylation while ATP cannot be produced since cortisol and calcium have killed so many cells and tissues.

Magnesium displaces calcium which gets us methylating again.

 

[zooma]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

I didn't mean to give the impression that I was writing it off. I've just never seen this talked about before and I think if Ray had ever considered that PUFA may have benefit in some context then he would have mentioned it. Many people here have areas where they diverge from Ray's work in some way, but the one thing that sticks is the avoidance of PUFA. There is likely no one on the planet that has a better understanding of the effects of PUFA on the body than Ray, and the fact that he mentions the tiny amounts of PUFA in coconut oil as something significant says it all really.

We also know his opinions on contamination of heavy metals and other excipients so I think if he thought there was a way to solve this he would have mentioned that also.

It sounds interesting. I'm excited to give the thread a proper read.

 

[kineticz]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

Ray is anti-methylation but pro glycine. Glycine is very important once intracellular magnesium improves.

He indirectly refers to methylation a lot. He's anti-DNA replication and anti-cysteine. So what you do to prevent these problems is get your magnesium and glutathione stores up. Cysteine only lingers if you are low in P5P and intracellular magnesium as it is a by-product of homocysteine which causes cardiovascular disease. Also, the choline/zinc pathway bypasses the DNA replication pathway which produces heart healthy creatine and carnitine. Carnitine also being central to fatty acid metabolism/ATP.

So to protect people he hasn't advised us to go off and increase cysteine even though you cannot make glutathione without cysteine. What's protective is mineral RETENTION. Magnesium being the main one. If you don't approach methylation right, it's very easy to increase homocysteine, and be in a right mess. Getting magnesium into cells, most importantly brain cells, is the best way to methylate without risk.

Restoring brain ATP also reduces glutamate, so you have more glutamine. Glutamine is central to gut health (preventing SIBO etc) and, along with cysteine, produces glutathione, rather than arginine and ammonia, when angiotensin is reduced, and the kidneys repair.

Calcification is the arch-enemy of methylation.

 

[HDD]

Understanding ketogenesis, mitochondria and ATP production

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/un ... fats.shtml
"The concentration of polyunsaturated fats in the brain has led many people to say that the "nutritionally essential fatty acids," especially the omega -3 fatty acids, are essential for brain development (for the formation of nerve cell membranes), and for the formation of synapses, and that increasing the amount of those fats in the diet would be desirable. The types of argument they use simply ignore the real evidence:Cells can multiply indefinitely in culture dishes without the essential fatty acids, insects can multiply for generations on diets without the unsaturated fats, forming normal synapses and brains, and mammals fed diets with extremely small amounts of the unsaturated fats grow with perfectly normal--possibly superior--brains.

One of the fats in the omega -9 series, that the human body can synthesize, nervonic acid, is a major constituent of brain tissue, but its important functions in brain development have hardly been investigated. Unlike the unsaturated fatty acids oleic acid, linoleic acid, and eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), nervonic acid isn't associated with the "coronary risk factors," and it has been suggested that it might be used in adults to prevent obesity-related diseases. (Oda, et al., 2005)."

vs.
http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Brain_fo ... learly_etc

Brain fats and oils

Humans evolved on the East Coast of Africa eating a diet rich in sea food. It is suggested that the high levels of oils, particularly DHA (Docosahexanoic acid), allowed the brain to develop fast, thus allowing humans to outstrip other mammals. So Homo Sapiens came to have bigger brains allowing intelligence to develop. There is lots of research showing that essential fatty acids are indeed "essential" for normal brain function; so oils that would be helpful in addition to coconut oil would be omega 3 (fish), omega 6 (evening primrose) and omega 9 (olive), together with lecithin (which is phosphatidylcholine – i.e. the main component of all cell membranes).