Why Ray Recommends Eating Lots Of Calcium

[Sefton10]

Eating lots of calcium is great if you are middle aged and want to increase the progression of atherosclerosis.

Ray has been pounding it for decades while being pretty sedentary and is well into his 80s without any issues (as far as I know).

 

[Doc Sandoz]

Eating lots of calcium is great if you are middle aged and want to increase the progression of atherosclerosis.

This is the precise opposite of what Ray says.

 

[Braveheart]

This is the precise opposite of what Ray says.

tempted to hit the ignore button on him....

 

[lampofred]

Eating lots of calcium is great if you are middle aged and want to increase the progression of atherosclerosis.

This is analogous to thinking that calcium intake is the cause of calcification. Peat has explained that the real cause of calcification (and atherosclerosis) is high parathyroid hormone, which high calcium intake actually helps to suppress (when accompanied by a low PUFA diet).

 

[Braveheart]

This is analogous to thinking that calcium intake is the cause of calcification. Peat has explained that the real cause of calcification (and atherosclerosis) is high parathyroid hormone, which high calcium intake actually helps to suppress (when accompanied by a low PUFA diet).

 

[DMF]

I use calcium carbonate in the form of eggshell powder and some tablets throughout the day with meals and snacks. I might be using too much, though, since I have amorphous crystals in my urine.

I myself, am about to start using eggshells for a source of calcium. Since you started getting your calcium from eggshells, did you notice an improvement in your health?

 

[Dolomite]

That would happen to me too when I used eggshell calcium. No such issue with goat’s milk and cheese even up to 4000mg+ calcium a day.

Thanks, I don't drink milk but I could up my cheese consumption.

 

[Dolomite]

I myself, am about to start using eggshells for a source of calcium. Since you started getting your calcium from eggshells, did you notice an improvement in your health?

I have used a 1/2 teaspoon of eggshell powder daily for 4 years. I didn't really notice and improvement until recently when I added about 1600 mg in the form of calcium carbonate in tablet. I think if you can get at least 2000 mg of calcium from eggshells or dairy you will notice an improvement.

 

[Amazoniac]

- Lead Exposure from Backyard Chicken Eggs: A Public Health Risk?

"Lead is consistently detected in egg shells when chickens are exposed to lead [14, 20]. In this case, lead was detected in every egg shell analyzed. The consistent finding of lead in the shell regardless of the amount of lead in the edible portion [] is intriguing and points to a continuous pathway for lead excretion in the chicken. Shell calcification utilizes Ca2+ from intestinal, dietary absorption as well as from mobilization of bone Ca2+ reserves [21]. In chickens exposed to lead, the divalent lead cation (Pb2+) may utilize the pathway of calcium deposition in the egg shell. Further studies are needed to determine if lead found in egg shells is derived from the intestinal pool, which would be a reflection of recent dietary exposure, or from the bone storage pool, a reflection of chronic lead exposure or both. Nonetheless, the finding of lead in egg shells may represent another indirect source of lead exposure for humans. Many backyard gardeners will use compost to fertilize their gardens. If the lead-containing shells are being placed in the compost pile and then being used on growing edible plants, there is the potential for uptake of the lead by the plants [22] as well as surface contamination of the plants. In addition, backyard chickens can be re-exposed to lead if the shells are consumed by them. Thus, it is imperative that chickens not be fed the leftover egg shells in order to prevent re-exposure."​

​

"Of great concern from a public health standpoint was the lack of any sign of illness in the chickens from this particular incident. It is well known that the severity of clinical signs does not necessarily correlate with the concentration of lead detected in blood. Thus, relatively high concentrations can be associated with rather mild clinical signs whereas lower concentrations can be associated with more severe signs [20, 23]. This can be problematic from a public health standpoint. Backyard chickens may not show signs of illness with high levels of lead in the blood; lead is then incorporated into the egg which the owner in all likelihood will consume, sometimes on a daily basis."​

​

"From eggs collected in this case, the consumption of one egg could result in an oral exposure of lead ranging from just below (4.5 μg) to 18 times as much as the recommended level (108 μg)."​

​

"In backyard chickens with no prior history of lead toxicosis and in which exposure to lead is not known by the owner, we recommend having the eggs tested for lead. Initially, several eggs may be pooled for testing to assess the potential risk. If lead is detected, further investigation should be conducted to determine the source to prevent further exposure to the chickens."​

 

[Dave Clark]

Many back yard chicken, or even duck owners use commercial feed. I would first look there, before assuming it is coming from anywhere else. People who feed their animals organic non-commercial food see less incidence of cancer and other debilitating disease. Read the ingredient list on most of these commercial chicken feeds, and it will not impress you. Furthermore, inferior base ingredients are commonly found in dog, cat, bird, etc. food, which is no surprise. So, if I was concerned about lead in my backyard chickens, that would the first place I would suspect. Many heavy metals in the food supply come from pesticides, etc., so organic feed may solve the lead problem. Just my opinion on that, no science to back it up that I have searched for.

 

[Electrisio]

Without sufficient dietary calcium, bones will start dissolving and this will raise blood calcium and start calcifying the soft tissues. When you ingest a lot of it then PTH will be low and most of that calcium will go to the bones, leaving only enough in the cells to fuel metabolism. Without eating enough calcium a person will "paradoxically" get a calcium overload symptom and soft tissue calcification.

I get these exact symptoms when I take Vitamin D supplements even in tiny doses (100-200iu), eating a lot of calcium at the same time doesn't help this though.

 

[SamYo123]

I get these exact symptoms when I take Vitamin D supplements even in tiny doses (100-200iu), eating a lot of calcium at the same time doesn't help this though.

So what about those who have no problems with bone health in old age with no calcium intake?

 

[Kvothe]

I mixed my eggshell powder into orange juice before it was cool.

H Mehansho, R L Kanerva, G R Hudepohl & K T Smith (1989) Calcium bioavailability and iron-calcium
interaction in orange juice., Journal of the American College of Nutrition, 8:1, 61-68.

We have determined the effects of orange juice on calcium bioavailability from CCM (a combination of CaC03, citric acid, malic acid, 51, mol/mol/mol) and iron-calcium interaction by using whole body isotope retention techniques in rats. The mean calcium retention values from CCM were 42.8% from orange juice and 33.0% from water, a control. Orange juice significanfly (p < 0.05) improved calcium bioavailability. This enhancement of calcium absorption is independent of orange juice's pH and citric acid. Iron absorption from orange juice with CCM (36.7%) was also significantly higher than that from control (water) plus CCM (12.3%). Ascorbic acid at levels naturally present in orange juice failed to improve iron retention (12.3% vs 12.5%) from water plus CCM. In contrast, citric acid (at orange juice level) significanüy (p < 0.05) promoted iron absorption in the presence of CCM (8.0% vs 23.7%). The benefit of citric acid on iron-calcium interaction is enhanced by ascorbic acid. In the presence of both citric acid and ascorbic acid, at orange juice levels, iron absorption from water plus CCM (37.6%) was comparable to that from water without CCM (34.5%). These results show orange juice can deliver bioavailable calcium from CCM with minimal inhibition of ironabsorption. Citric acid and ascorbic acid are likely the major orange juice components that contribute to the alleviation of iron absorption inhibition by CCM.


This is the first detailed study that shows calcium added as CCM to orange juice has enhanced
bioavailability; and this calcium source has minimum effect in inhibiting iron absorption. The influence of
orange juice on calcium absorption is not attributed to its lower pH or citric acid content. Studies to identify
the specific components responsible for the enhanced calcium bioavailability are in progress.[...]
Calcium-fortified orange juice may provide a highly bioavailable form of calcium that has minimal interference with
iron absorption and, thus, reduces the concern associated with the inhibitory effect of calcium on iron absorption.

 

[Amazoniac]

I mixed my eggshell powder into orange juice before it was cool.

H Mehansho, R L Kanerva, G R Hudepohl & K T Smith (1989) Calcium bioavailability and iron-calcium
interaction in orange juice., Journal of the American College of Nutrition, 8:1, 61-68.

We have determined the effects of orange juice on calcium bioavailability from CCM (a combination of CaC03, citric acid, malic acid, 51, mol/mol/mol) and iron-calcium interaction by using whole body isotope retention techniques in rats. The mean calcium retention values from CCM were 42.8% from orange juice and 33.0% from water, a control. Orange juice significanfly (p < 0.05) improved calcium bioavailability. This enhancement of calcium absorption is independent of orange juice's pH and citric acid. Iron absorption from orange juice with CCM (36.7%) was also significantly higher than that from control (water) plus CCM (12.3%). Ascorbic acid at levels naturally present in orange juice failed to improve iron retention (12.3% vs 12.5%) from water plus CCM. In contrast, citric acid (at orange juice level) significanüy (p < 0.05) promoted iron absorption in the presence of CCM (8.0% vs 23.7%). The benefit of citric acid on iron-calcium interaction is enhanced by ascorbic acid. In the presence of both citric acid and ascorbic acid, at orange juice levels, iron absorption from water plus CCM (37.6%) was comparable to that from water without CCM (34.5%). These results show orange juice can deliver bioavailable calcium from CCM with minimal inhibition of ironabsorption. Citric acid and ascorbic acid are likely the major orange juice components that contribute to the alleviation of iron absorption inhibition by CCM.


This is the first detailed study that shows calcium added as CCM to orange juice has enhanced
bioavailability; and this calcium source has minimum effect in inhibiting iron absorption. The influence of
orange juice on calcium absorption is not attributed to its lower pH or citric acid content. Studies to identify
the specific components responsible for the enhanced calcium bioavailability are in progress.[...]
Calcium-fortified orange juice may provide a highly bioavailable form of calcium that has minimal interference with
iron absorption and, thus, reduces the concern associated with the inhibitory effect of calcium on iron absorption.

Speaking of temperature, another finding that's as cool as my extremities.
Could it be the cardiarrestium? It promotes killcium retention and was present with it in equal parts, although its requirement is higher.

 

[SamYo123]

My left eye twitches so much when I consume 1+ litre of milk.. seems to stop if I either stop milk or consume more magnesium….

Magnesium doesn’t help constipation though

 

[Dr. B]

Speaking of temperature, another finding that's as cool as my extremities.
Could it be the cardiarrestium? It promotes killcium retention and was present with it in equal parts, although its requirement is higher.

whats cardiarrestium?

 

[Amazoniac]

- Immobility in the Aged

"Disuse osteoporosis is well established in immobile patients,[1,3,5-8,12,71,72] and is characterized by hypercalciuria and hydroxyprolinuria.[6] Recumbent osteoporosis derives from an absence of gravitational pull on weight-bearing bones, with skeletal tissues of the spine and lower extremities being primarily affected. Urinary nitrogen loss reflects muscular atrophy and parallels hypercalciuria, confirming a lack of muscle pull on skeletal periosteum participates in disuse osteoporosis.[6,73] Increased bone résorption appears to be the principal etiologic factor in bone loss,[8] with calcium loss averaging 200 mg per day.[73] During the first 4 to 6 weeks of bed rest, urinary calcium loss increases, then stabilizes or decreases but remains higher than normal.[72] With prolonged bed rest and hypercalciuria, nephrocalcinosis, urolithiasis,[7,8,12] and heterotrophic calcification3 may develop and portend further functional and physiologic deterioration.

Disuse osteoporosis may be prevented or attenuated (Table 4) with regular activity in the standing position. Issekutz et al[74] emphasized the importance of standing in the management of immobility-induced osteoporosis by assessing the effects of an upright posture, sitting, and supine exercise on urinary calcium loss. They noted that 3 hours of standing per day reduced hypercalciuria associated with bed rest while 8 hours of sitting per day or 4 hours of supine exercise per day failed to decrease urinary calcium loss. Thus, early ambulation or regular placement on a tilt table should be prescribed to mitigate calcium résorption and disuse osteoporosis."​

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- Cheese intake lowers plasma cholesterol concentrations without increasing bile acid excretion

 

[Kvothe]

- Immobility in the Aged

"Disuse osteoporosis is well established in immobile patients,[1,3,5-8,12,71,72] and is characterized by hypercalciuria and hydroxyprolinuria.[6] Recumbent osteoporosis derives from an absence of gravitational pull on weight-bearing bones, with skeletal tissues of the spine and lower extremities being primarily affected. Urinary nitrogen loss reflects muscular atrophy and parallels hypercalciuria, confirming a lack of muscle pull on skeletal periosteum participates in disuse osteoporosis.[6,73] Increased bone résorption appears to be the principal etiologic factor in bone loss,[8] with calcium loss averaging 200 mg per day.[73] During the first 4 to 6 weeks of bed rest, urinary calcium loss increases, then stabilizes or decreases but remains higher than normal.[72] With prolonged bed rest and hypercalciuria, nephrocalcinosis, urolithiasis,[7,8,12] and heterotrophic calcification3 may develop and portend further functional and physiologic deterioration.​

​

Disuse osteoporosis may be prevented or attenuated (Table 4) with regular activity in the standing position. Issekutz et al[74] emphasized the importance of standing in the management of immobility-induced osteoporosis by assessing the effects of an upright posture, sitting, and supine exercise on urinary calcium loss. They noted that 3 hours of standing per day reduced hypercalciuria associated with bed rest while 8 hours of sitting per day or 4 hours of supine exercise per day failed to decrease urinary calcium loss. Thus, early ambulation or regular placement on a tilt table should be prescribed to mitigate calcium résorption and disuse osteoporosis."​

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- Cheese intake lowers plasma cholesterol concentrations without increasing bile acid excretion

Standing and beeing mildly active should also increase the absorption of Kalzium (and other nutrients) from the intestine. Standing desks need to get out of their hipster niche and become mainstream.

 

[Amazoniac]

- Osteoimmunology: A Current Update of the Interplay Between Bone and the Immune System

"Development of the innate immune system began in unicellular, amoebic organisms. In fact, these amoebic life forms closely resemble macrophages as our immune system contains them today (84). Takayanagi et al. posit multiple reasons why the immune system is mainly housed inside the skeletal system. First, bone tissue shields stem and progenitor cells from harmful UV light, possibly damaging precious DNA and causing catastrophic replication errors. Secondly, the transition from aquatic to terrene environments brought along significantly higher concentration of oxygen, another possible danger to DNA. Ultimately, decreasing levels of external calcium (sea water contains about 400 mg/l of calcium) might have driven immunopoiesis to the bone marrow, where large quantities of calcium could be released quickly if needed, preceding the assumption, that calcium plays a crucial role for hematopoiesis (80, 85)."​

 

[Amazoniac]

I thought that citrate's enhancement of aluminium absorption applied to other organic acids as well, but it's not the case. It's one of a few points in favor of craponate over citrate.

- Impact of Oral Bases on Aluminum Absorption

Spoiler

"Citrate's promotion of aluminum solubility is not the sole factor responsible for its facilitation of aluminum absorption. Citrate has also been shown to promote paracellular flux of aluminum across the intestinal mucosa tight junctions.[21] The integrity of these junctions is maintained by extracellular calcium.[21] Chelation of calcium by citrate facilitates absorption of aluminum.[2] The length of time that these tight junctions is open is unclear. A study performed on rat proximal jejunal segments that were exposed to citrate found a decrease in transmural resistance, consistent with an opening of tight gap junctions, that began at approximately 10 minutes and lasted for at least 44 minutes.[21] This potentially sustained effect of citrate on the proximal mucosa's ability to absorb aluminum is consistent with our finding of enhanced aluminum absorption even when citrate is administered separately from the APB [All-points Bulletin]."

"Calcium acetate in this study failed to demonstrate any significant effect on aluminum absorption. Just as with CCA, aluminum will interact with calcium acetate to form an aluminum acetate complex.[22] Acetate's potential impact on aluminum absorption can be analyzed in a similar manner as citrate. Unlike aluminum citrate, aluminum acetate is not particularly soluble.[22] Because acetate only has one carboxyl group, it does not form the strong complexes with aluminum that citrate does.[19] Additionally, rat proximal jejunal segments exposed to sodium acetate displayed no significant reduction in transcellular resistance, suggesting that acetate does not affect intercellular tight junctions in the intestinal mucosa. These findings are consistent with our and previous observations that calcium acetate does not have an apparent impact on aluminum absorption.[1]"

- Influence of calcium acetate or calcium citrate on intestinal aluminum absorption

- A comparison of Aluminum Leaching Processes in Tap and Drinking Water

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On industrial synthesis of citrate, if fragments of fungus remain in the product and for some reason it's perceived by the immune system as an unusual threat, we normally breath in spores of these clowns, perhaps the exposures condition the body to elicit a stronger response to what's inhaled.
- Indoor and outdoor atmospheric fungal spores in the Sao Paulo metropolitan area (Brazil): species and numeric concentrations

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If there's enough stomach acid to react with edemium hydrocraponate (NaHCO3) without struggle, it's likely that it has too for killcium craponate. The amount of acid consumed in the reaction will be the same whether the junk is dispersed in a meal or not. The advantage of dispersion is in preventing an excess of killcium to be emptied to the intestines at once without molecules to pair with it and avoid insolubilization. Therefore, I now think that distributing it in a meal is better.

OPEN embryology book , part there pointing out that the stomach is formed from ballooning a tube, yet there are the Perry Staltic movements that remain conserved to some degree. I think that these propagations are coordinated in a way that avoids extensive mixing, waves shock the content on the end. It's desirable for the gastric phase of digestion to occur in layers, otherwise it would be difficult to complete it in case of nibbling since new bits are introduced often, you'd have a combination of digested and undigested part preventing continuation. So, this phase must not be chaotic, but instead, regulated as drugs. I wouldn't count on the stomach to be dispersing the killcium taken from a spoon, a capsule or tablet.

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In therapeutic supplementation of killcium, in general, there's the potential to interfere with the absorption of other minerals, but not vitamins. On the first page of this thread, Raj was quoted mentioning that extra killcium can control microbial activity, therefore it can be helpful to coincide most of the vitamins intake with killcium (and laxarium) while sparing the meal that's richest in trace minerals to maximize their absorption (early in the day and with fermentable carbs, if necessary).

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Phosphorus is no longer referred to as nephrosium in Prolactinese, it's been updated to senescium.