Whey (not whey protein)

[tiny24]

Hello guys, have anyone of you tried whey as supplement? I wanted to incorporate more lactose in my diet (due to facts in J. H. Kellog's book Autointoxication), but I am not friend with high fat or protein content and I did browse between many types of products from milk and I did find whey (do not confuse with whey protein). It comes in form of liquid (which is pretty common drink in my country, but I've never realized it's high mineral content) or in dried powder. It is pretty cheap (about 3 USD for 500g powder) and according to Cronometer, in 30g (equivalent of 500ml liquid whey) it has 4g protein, 22g lactose, 0.3g of fat, 240mg calcium, 600mg potassium, 50mg magnesium, also many B vitamins and other minerals. I want to incorporate about 40g per day and hope to see some benefits in my gut. Do you have some experience with whey and it's benefits?

 

[Morten]

Hello guys, have anyone of you tried whey as supplement? I wanted to incorporate more lactose in my diet (due to facts in J. H. Kellog's book Autointoxication), but I am not friend with high fat or protein content and I did browse between many types of products from milk and I did find whey (do not confuse with whey protein). It comes in form of liquid (which is pretty common drink in my country, but I've never realized it's high mineral content) or in dried powder. It is pretty cheap (about 3 USD for 500g powder) and according to Cronometer, in 30g (equivalent of 500ml liquid whey) it has 4g protein, 22g lactose, 0.3g of fat, 240mg calcium, 600mg potassium, 50mg magnesium, also many B vitamins and other minerals. I want to incorporate about 40g per day and hope to see some benefits in my gut. Do you have some experience with whey and it's benefits?

What´s the name of the product?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Hello guys, have anyone of you tried whey as supplement? I wanted to incorporate more lactose in my diet (due to facts in J. H. Kellog's book Autointoxication), but I am not friend with high fat or protein content and I did browse between many types of products from milk and I did find whey (do not confuse with whey protein). It comes in form of liquid (which is pretty common drink in my country, but I've never realized it's high mineral content) or in dried powder. It is pretty cheap (about 3 USD for 500g powder) and according to Cronometer, in 30g (equivalent of 500ml liquid whey) it has 4g protein, 22g lactose, 0.3g of fat, 240mg calcium, 600mg potassium, 50mg magnesium, also many B vitamins and other minerals. I want to incorporate about 40g per day and hope to see some benefits in my gut. Do you have some experience with whey and it's benefits?

I made cottage cheese last week intending to use the whey, but found it is high in lactic acid, so I poured my whey down the drain. There are some other reasons I avoid whey…

“Whey, which is sold as a protein supplement, and egg whites contain too much tryptophan and can be antithyroid if used excessively.” -Ray Peat, PhD

“For example, whey protein contains much more tryptophan than whole milk or cheese does, and would tend to suppress the thyroid and activate the whole serotonin-stress system. Whey might be good for fattening pigs, but its acceptance in the health food industry as a powdered protein supplement is just another example of the harmful effects of serotonin mythology.” -Ray Peat, PhD

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Is the whey drink you have access to tart @tiny24?


View: https://youtu.be/8ErddLqGZM4?si=vM9m95vhHPguHM1Z

 

[Phaedrus]

I have used whey protein concentrate in the past for muscle growth.

Here’s the basics of whey - you add an acid like vinegar to milk and that enzymatic reaction separates the curds from the whey. The curds, which are then strained from the liquid to make cheese, contain more of the casein protein amino acids, while the leftover liquid is whey and contains a different spectrum of amino acids. To make whey protein concentrate, the liquid is filtered and then either boiled down or freeze dried, and the remaining powder is whey protein concentrate. Whey protein isolate undergoes further processing to remote non-protein constituents like fat or lactose. Concentrate contains more nutrients and is probably less harmful than isolate, but neither are ideal.

Ray Peat did not recommend consumption of whey in any form because of its high content of tryptophan, which seems to cause premature aging in a variety of ways, primarily how it converts to serotonin, a stress hormone that can cause other negative downstream effects including suppressing progesterone and thyroid.

I don’t put too much stock in Kellogg’s teachings but that is just my opinion. What are your reasons for avoiding protein and fat?

 

[Morten]

I have used whey protein concentrate in the past for muscle growth.

Here’s the basics of whey - you add an acid like vinegar to milk and that enzymatic reaction separates the curds from the whey. The curds, which are then strained from the liquid to make cheese, contain more of the casein protein amino acids, while the leftover liquid is whey and contains a different spectrum of amino acids. To make whey protein concentrate, the liquid is filtered and then either boiled down or freeze dried, and the remaining powder is whey protein concentrate. Whey protein isolate undergoes further processing to remote non-protein constituents like fat or lactose. Concentrate contains more nutrients and is probably less harmful than isolate, but neither are ideal.

Ray Peat did not recommend consumption of whey in any form because of its high content of tryptophan, which seems to cause premature aging in a variety of ways, primarily how it converts to serotonin, a stress hormone that can cause other negative downstream effects including suppressing progesterone and thyroid.

I don’t put too much stock in Kellogg’s teachings but that is just my opinion. What are your reasons for avoiding protein and fat?

So casein powder would be better, if a powder choice should be made according protein?

 

[nomoreketones]

Here’s the basics of whey - you add an acid like vinegar to milk and that enzymatic reaction separates the curds from the whey. The curds, which are then strained from the liquid to make cheese, contain more of the casein protein amino acids, while the leftover liquid is whey and contains a different spectrum of amino acids. To make whey protein concentrate, the liquid is filtered and then either boiled down or freeze dried, and the remaining powder is whey protein concentrate. Whey protein isolate undergoes further processing to remote non-protein constituents like fat or lactose. Concentrate contains more nutrients and is probably less harmful than isolate, but neither are ideal.

Or in the olden days they created ricotta cheese from the leftover whey liquid. Then it becomes a real food, not a processed powder.

Please beware that most of the ricotta you buy in the supermarket is fake and not made from whey like it traditionally was.

 

[tiny24]

I have used whey protein concentrate in the past for muscle growth.

Here’s the basics of whey - you add an acid like vinegar to milk and that enzymatic reaction separates the curds from the whey. The curds, which are then strained from the liquid to make cheese, contain more of the casein protein amino acids, while the leftover liquid is whey and contains a different spectrum of amino acids. To make whey protein concentrate, the liquid is filtered and then either boiled down or freeze dried, and the remaining powder is whey protein concentrate. Whey protein isolate undergoes further processing to remote non-protein constituents like fat or lactose. Concentrate contains more nutrients and is probably less harmful than isolate, but neither are ideal.

Ray Peat did not recommend consumption of whey in any form because of its high content of tryptophan, which seems to cause premature aging in a variety of ways, primarily how it converts to serotonin, a stress hormone that can cause other negative downstream effects including suppressing progesterone and thyroid.

I don’t put too much stock in Kellogg’s teachings but that is just my opinion. What are your reasons for avoiding protein and fat?

I have something like really lazy gut, so when I do incorporate too much protein or fat, it will wreck my digestion completely for a day or more and it will lead to more and more issues depending on the source of protein and fat. One of the issues is constipation, which I cannot relieve even by enemas, ozonized magnesium, cascara, paraffin, etc., etc., it feels like that my body does not have use for it and let it rot in my gut. Depending on how much protein or fat it was, many hours later I will feel that it is passing through me, my gut start bubbling and everything is ok then.

And as for whey, it can be sweet or sour depending on how it was made. It is always somehow sour, but not as that much as yogurt or kefir, it is more like coconut water with little sour taste. Tryptophan content is 0,1g per 30g of dried powder as described above, which I do not know, wheter it is high or not.

 

[Phaedrus]

So casein powder would be better, if a powder choice should be made according protein?

Correct, casein is a better choice. I believe Haidut has posted some studies about the benefits of casein protein. Power lifters prefer whey post-workout because it is “fast acting” and hits the muscles quick, whereas casein is assimilated slower and usually touted as a good protein source to consume before bedtime. After weight lifting, I mix casein protein concentrate along with some hydrolyzed collagen (gelatin) and sugar into milk. No issues with digestion for me.

 

[Phaedrus]

I have something like really lazy gut, so when I do incorporate too much protein or fat, it will wreck my digestion completely for a day or more and it will lead to more and more issues depending on the source of protein and fat. One of the issues is constipation, which I cannot relieve even by enemas, ozonized magnesium, cascara, paraffin, etc., etc., it feels like that my body does not have use for it and let it rot in my gut. Depending on how much protein or fat it was, many hours later I will feel that it is passing through me, my gut start bubbling and everything is ok then.

And as for whey, it can be sweet or sour depending on how it was made. It is always somehow sour, but not as that much as yogurt or kefir, it is more like coconut water with little sour taste. Tryptophan content is 0,1g per 30g of dried powder as described above, which I do not know, wheter it is high or not.

Do you digest starch okay? What about potatoes?

Ray Peat has mentioned many times that potatoes offer quality protein with all essential amino acids. If starch is a problem, you can try juicing potatoes, then letting the starch settle at the bottom to filter it out. Cooking the remaining potato juice will turn into something like scrambled eggs, a high protein and nutritious dish that is apparently very well tolerated by even people with a lot of allergies or digestive issues. Eaten with some sugar like orange or grape juice would be ideal.

If not potatoes, maybe mushrooms for protein? When well cooked apparently they are also a good fiber that can help some people with constipation.

 

[tiny24]

Do you digest starch okay? What about potatoes?

Ray Peat has mentioned many times that potatoes offer quality protein with all essential amino acids. If starch is a problem, you can try juicing potatoes, then letting the starch settle at the bottom to filter it out. Cooking the remaining potato juice will turn into something like scrambled eggs, a high protein and nutritious dish that is apparently very well tolerated by even people with a lot of allergies or digestive issues. Eaten with some sugar like orange or grape juice would be ideal.

If not potatoes, maybe mushrooms for protein? When well cooked apparently they are also a good fiber that can help some people with constipation.

Yep, potatoes are staple of my diet. I did try many source of protein in the past. For me, it is not source but quantity. When I overcome my daily dose, I will get issues, same with fat.

 

[Morten]

Correct, casein is a better choice. I believe Haidut has posted some studies about the benefits of casein protein. Power lifters prefer whey post-workout because it is “fast acting” and hits the muscles quick, whereas casein is assimilated slower and usually touted as a good protein source to consume before bedtime. After weight lifting, I mix casein protein concentrate along with some hydrolyzed collagen (gelatin) and sugar into milk. No issues with digestion for me.

Thanks, gelatin is the same as broth?

 

[Morten]

I have something like really lazy gut, so when I do incorporate too much protein or fat, it will wreck my digestion completely for a day or more and it will lead to more and more issues depending on the source of protein and fat. One of the issues is constipation, which I cannot relieve even by enemas, ozonized magnesium, cascara, paraffin, etc., etc., it feels like that my body does not have use for it and let it rot in my gut. Depending on how much protein or fat it was, many hours later I will feel that it is passing through me, my gut start bubbling and everything is ok then.

And as for whey, it can be sweet or sour depending on how it was made. It is always somehow sour, but not as that much as yogurt or kefir, it is more like coconut water with little sour taste. Tryptophan content is 0,1g per 30g of dried powder as described above, which I do not know, wheter it is high or not.

Just heard yesterday in nr 57, of the regenerative podcast, at 59 min, the product pyrucet, had helped people with decades of constipation.

 

[Morten]

Just heard yesterday in nr 57, of the regenerative podcast, at 59 min, the product pyrucet, had helped people with decades of constipation.

Pyrucet=idealabs, georgi dinkow.

 

[David PS]

I was curious about the amount of tryptophan in whey and casein. I entered 24 grams of each into cronometer and added 5 bananas and 6 oz of turkey to put the amounts into perspective.

(double click on image to enlarge)

And the tryptophan winner for the amounts that I entered.

 

[Phaedrus]

I was curious about the amount of tryptophan in whey and casein. I entered 24 grams of each into cronometer and added 5 bananas and 6 oz of turkey to put the amounts into perspective.

View attachment 57948 (double click on image to enlarge)

And the tryptophan winner for the amounts that I entered.
View attachment 57949

I can’t see the serving sizes you entered in the first smaller photo, but this source says that gram-to-gram, whey protein contains twice the amount of tryptophan than casein:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-amino-acid-composition-of-whey-casein-and-soy-isolates_tbl2_227249571

 

[Morten]

I can’t see the serving sizes you entered in the first smaller photo, but this source says that gram-to-gram, whey protein contains twice the amount of tryptophan than casein:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-amino-acid-composition-of-whey-casein-and-soy-isolates_tbl2_227249571

Yeah, I got confused too. Thought that casein were the best choice....

 

[David PS]

I can’t see the serving sizes you entered in the first smaller photo, but this source says that gram-to-gram, whey protein contains twice the amount of tryptophan than casein:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-amino-acid-composition-of-whey-casein-and-soy-isolates_tbl2_227249571

Here is the image full size. 24 grams to 24 grams. Both are powders. I do not use either (am not a body builder) but it appears both are too high.

 

[tiny24]

I was curious about the amount of tryptophan in whey and casein. I entered 24 grams of each into cronometer and added 5 bananas and 6 oz of turkey to put the amounts into perspective.

View attachment 57948 (double click on image to enlarge)

And the tryptophan winner for the amounts that I entered.
View attachment 57949

I did not mean whey protein powder, but pure whey, it is called "whey, acid, dried" and "whey, sweet, dried" on cronometer. Whey protein powder is just concentrate of protein from whey, discarded of lactose and trace minerals.

 

[David PS]

I did not mean whey protein powder, but pure whey, it is called "whey, acid, dried" and "whey, sweet, dried" on cronometer. Whey protein powder is just concentrate of protein from whey, discarded of lactose and trace minerals.

Thanks for the explaination. I added 24 grams of whey acid to cronometer. Here is a list of the foods I entered sorted by tryptophan content. I do not have dog in this fight.

Edited: