What makes blackberries soothing, but raspberries irritating to digestion?

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I notice that raspberries, even in small amounts, can be irritating to my digestion (can cause burning and/or diarrhea).
While blackberries feel soothing on my digestion.
Both grow roughly the same way and in similar places. Both have similar appearance (bubbles of seed + juice), size, dangling from a shrub plant with hole in the middle (hole is bigger in raspberries).

Any ideas what makes the difference in effect on digestion?


BLACKBERRIES:

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Source 1:

Blackberries - ScienceDirect

Fatty acid composition of seed oil:
The analysis, blackberry seed oil, very high polyunsaturated fatty acids,
such as omega-6 (linoleic acid) and omega-3 (linolenic acid), 42%–64% and 14%–18%, respectively.
Omega-6/omega-3 ratio approximately 3.
Saturated and monounsaturated fatty acids, less than 9% and 20% of the content, respectively.

fattys.png


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Carotenoid content of seed oil:

Oil extracted from blackberry seeds contains approximately 30 mg.100 g−1 of carotenoids, but very scarce information exists on carotenoids in blackberries and in Rubus species in general. Carotenoid content of it is not negligible, if its bioavailability results are appropriate.

In Bulgarian blackberries (Rubus fruticosus L.):
Total carotenoid content reached 440 µg.100 g−1 FW of the whole fruit, with
- lutein (270 µg.100 g−1 FW) and
- β-carotene (100 µg.100 g−1 FW) as the major carotenoids.
- β-cryptoxanthin and zeaxanthin (both approximately 30 µg.100 g−1 FW), but
- lycopene could not be detected.

In blackberries from Brazil:
Total carotenoid content was much lower (86 µg.100 g−1 FW), but the same major carotenoids (lutein and β-carotene) were also identified.

In addition to the interactions between the genome and environmental factors, these divergences can mainly be explained by the fact that the
carotenoid content in blackberry fruits largely decreases during ripening.
If β-carotene appears to decrease slightly during ripening, lutein and zeaxanthin totally disappear in mature fruits, according to (Skrovankova et al., 2015).
Accordingly, theoretical provitamin A activity in blackberries fluctuates between 100 and 220 UI.100 g−1, which is higher than activity in bananas and slightly less than activity in orange juice. However, the most interesting data relate to the worthy composition of blackberry carotenoids, with lutein and zeaxanthin as the major bioactive substances.


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Tocopherol and phytosterol:​

Total tocopherols, between 130 and 230 mg.100 g−1 of oil.
The distribution of α- tocopherols, (β + γ) and δ-tocopherol, differs greatly according to origin and maturity.
No tocotrienol has been reported in blackberries.

The total phytosterol content of blackberry oil is approximately 400 mg.100 g−1.
The predominant sterol in blackberry oil is:
- β-sitosterol (85%), followed by
- Δ5-avenasterol (7%),
- campesterol (5%), and
- Δ7-avenasterol and
- stigmasterol.

Vitamin E content in the whole fruit, estimated approximately 2 µg.100 g−1, but as it is mostly contained in the seed, its bioavailability is probably negligible when eating the whole fruit.


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Phenolic acids and flavonoids are phytochemicals common in all species of berries, and especially in blackberries.

Blackberry fruit belongs to the Rosaceae family and contains several phytochemicals, including anthocyanins, which are responsible for their dark color. They are widely used, namely for beverages’ production, as natural colorants, and/or for nutraceutical preparations.

Cyanidin-3-glucoside is the major pigment in blackberry juices. Fan-Chiang and Wrolstad reported a range for the content of cyanidin-3-glucoside
(5.12–8.65 mg/100 g on a fresh weight basis) in 50 blackberry samples from different varieties, locations, or seasons, followed by

cyanidin-3-rutinoside, which ranges
from 0.09 to 2.74 mg/100 g.

Jakobek and coauthors (2007) have also quantified anthocyanins, but the results are presented as cyanidin-3-glucoside equivalents (mg/mL), being impossible to compare with the aforementioned results. In this study the highest in juice was cyanidin-3-glucoside, followed by cyanidin-3-xyloside (Jakobek et al., 2007).


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About 14% solids, approximately equally divided between soluble and insoluble forms. The size of the pyrene and the relative development of the surrounding soft tissues influence the proportion of soluble to insoluble solids.

Pectins average 0.8% (w/w, expressed as calcium pectate) with a range of 0.35–1.19%.

Protopectins form the intercellular cement and contribute towards the firmness of fruit texture, but they decrease with ripening, owing to hydrolysis.

Sugars:
Fruit grown in areas that have warm, dry summers have more sugars and are more aromatic than fruit grown in wetter and milder regions. The ratio of sugars to acids plays a major part in determining flavor.

The main sugars are the reducing sugars, glucose and fructose, and there is a smaller amount of sucrose; these form the major soluble component of the juice.


Acids:
The main acids are malic acid and isocitric acid with its lactone; there is only a trace of citric acid.
In boysenberries, the proportion of the different acids was found to change as ripening proceeded: the proportion of malic acid decreased, whereas the proportion of citric and isocitric acids increased.
A number of trace acids also occur, especially in blackberry–raspberry hybrids.

The best measurement of the amount of acid present is titratable acidity. This quantity increases at first and then decreases as ripening starts. It is lower at high temperatures. The relationship between titratable acidity and ripeness is so close that it is the best quantitative measure of fruit ripeness and has been used to assess the ripeness of fruits harvested by machine.

sugarnacid.png


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- poor source of vitamins, but provide useful amounts of ascorbic acid and vitamin E.
- a source of fiber.
- low minerals, predominance of potassium and calcium
- low contents of proteins and polypeptides and traces or larger amounts of a number of amino acids


vitamens.png


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Bioactivity:

- High amount of cyanidin-3-O-glucoside, thus a scavenger of peroxynitrite and has a protective effect against endothelial dysfunction and vascular failure given by peroxynitrite.

- Inhibits cytochrome P450 activation (Tate et al., 2003).

- Blackberry juice had a major hepatoprotective effect on hepatotoxicity and oxidative stress induced by carbon tetrachloride in male rats, as indicated by a significant inhibition of the activity of serum enzymes, bilirubin, and lipid peroxidation levels gained by significant elevation in the activity of hepatic antioxidants and serum glutathione-S transferase activity. The hepatic lesions induced by carbon tetrachloride were significantly reduced by blackberry juice pretreatment.

- minimizing UV-B induced damage of DNA and enhancing apoptosis of cells that were damaged (in vitro).

Activity on microbes:
- The growth of Listeria monocytogenes, Salmonella typhimurium, and E. coli O157:H7 was significantly decreased, while
the growth of Lactobacillus strains was stimulated in milk and broth by blackberry juice (Yang et al., 2014).
 
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TruffleGnocchi
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This took longer than expected. I intended to break down another paper on blackberries and then raspberries and compare the things that I see. Maybe I will do that later.

I also seem to do good on dark ripe cherries, but not sour cherries. Maybe blueberries in moderation. And most grapes if I dont overdo them in combination with an empty stomach (with some food and not overdoing grapes seem ok). Ripe strawberries can be ok.

Orange juice seems bad on my digestion. Non-low amount of honey also can be bad for me on empty stomach. Plums are bad. Significant quantities of molasses sugar on empty stomach feel soothing at first, but then promotes diarrhea ultimately.

Currently I feel best focusing on dark almost black ripe cherries, grapes, ripe blackberries, non-acidic blueberry juice, juice or sauce from de-seeded skinless tomatoes, and some ripe blueberries and ripe strawberries, and some filtered strawberry juice.
Avoiding orange juice, lemons, apricots, peaches, nectarines, raspberries, sour cherries, and most other things I've tried I cant remember now.

There could be commonalities in mechanism of action why some are good and some bad.
 

LucH

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Hi,
Raspberries are classified D2 (among 3 grades, 3 = very diificult to digest) in my list (Histamine free list). Much more insoluble fibber (7 gr / 100 gr; 3 gr medium general situation).
When I eat "red fruit", I use some apple vinegar in water to "rinse" fruit. Not too much water. Vinegar on top (+/ 2 tbs). 1 or 2 minutes. No water afterwards to rinse.
 
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TruffleGnocchi
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Hi,
Raspberries are classified D2 (among 3 grades, 3 = very diificult to digest) in my list (Histamine free list). Much more insoluble fibber (7 gr / 100 gr; 3 gr medium general situation).
When I eat "red fruit", I use some apple vinegar in water to "rinse" fruit. Not too much water. Vinegar on top (+/ 2 tbs). 1 or 2 minutes. No water afterwards to rinse.
Thats interesting, could be the fiber or type of fiber. Blackberries feel softer and lighter in mouth.
Do you rinse the fruit peeled or with skin? What is the reason for vinegar rinse?
 

LucH

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I don't peel red fruit. No peel but tiny grains on top of strawberries.
Those "red berries" are very rich in polyphenols. So I won't eat e.g. blue berries every week but every other week. Must be eliminate after "use".
Remember that grains are not po-metabolic, according to RP. Moreover there are some anti-nutrients in all seeds. Not quite the same, ok.
 

Peatress

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I don’t tolerate raspberries either but this was not always the case. Growing up I ate them with ease, we had a raspberries bush in our garden so I ate plenty without concern. As an adult I don’t tolerate them even when organic. I wonder if it’s the seeds?

Blackberries I tolerate when I pick them myself but supermarket bought ones are not as good. I haven’t eaten raspberries or blackberries for a while now. I might try them again to see if I still react the same way.
 
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TruffleGnocchi
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I don’t tolerate raspberries either but this was not always the case. Growing up I ate them with ease, we had a raspberries bush in our garden so I ate plenty without concern. As an adult I don’t tolerate them even when organic. I wonder if it’s the seeds?

Blackberries I tolerate when I pick them myself but supermarket bought ones are not as good. I haven’t eaten raspberries or blackberries for a while now. I might try them again to see if I still react the same way.
Growing up I ate almost everything. I dont remember if I didnt have negative effects from stuff like grains, but no digestive issues or on rare occasions for short periods. Im thinking part of being able to eat unlimited quantities of acidic and liquid stuff without diarrhea could be because of the bread, pasta and baked goods I ate every day. Maybe it absorbs some of that like a sponge, slows it down, so it leeches out and contacts the gut cells slowly, might be less irritating. Now I basically eat just meat + fruit + juice, avoiding pectin and stuff like that, I imagine what I eat dumps quickly into the intestine and moves quickly spreads throughout gut since there is no sponge-like effect as is for bread. Maybe this is a false assumption Im making and its not what happens. Gelatin is the only thing I can think of that could help if this logic holds. The digestion was probably better as well, I could eat things on an empty stomach without issue, that give me issue these days, empty stomach or not. I dont eat bread or any grain or potato related things now. Maybe that would help but the energy and mental state aint worth it in any case for me. If eating bread would make me tolerate raspberries, orange juice,... but take away mental clarity, I would rather eat more restrictive and have the mental clarity
 

Peatress

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Growing up I ate almost everything. I dont remember if I didnt have negative effects from stuff like grains, but no digestive issues or on rare occasions for short periods. Im thinking part of being able to eat unlimited quantities of acidic and liquid stuff without diarrhea could be because of the bread, pasta and baked goods I ate every day. Maybe it absorbs some of that like a sponge, slows it down, so it leeches out and contacts the gut cells slowly, might be less irritating. Now I basically eat just meat + fruit + juice, avoiding pectin and stuff like that, I imagine what I eat dumps quickly into the intestine and moves quickly spreads throughout gut since there is no sponge-like effect as is for bread. Maybe this is a false assumption Im making and its not what happens. Gelatin is the only thing I can think of that could help if this logic holds. The digestion was probably better as well, I could eat things on an empty stomach without issue, that give me issue these days, empty stomach or not. I dont eat bread or any grain or potato related things now. Maybe that would help but the energy and mental state aint worth it in any case for me. If eating bread would make me tolerate raspberries, orange juice,... but take away mental clarity, I would rather eat more restrictive and have the mental clarity
Gelatin is helpful. I doubt that starch helps tolerate those fruits as it tends to feed bad bacteria. Like you I didn't have food intolerance growing up - happy days.

Have you tried high dose thiamine?
 
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TruffleGnocchi
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Gelatin is helpful. I doubt that starch helps tolerate those fruits as it tends to feed bad bacteria. Like you I didn't have food intolerance growing up - happy days.

Have you tried high dose thiamine?
I mean just the texture of bread and baked goods, like if you dip a piece of croissant into milk and eat that, instead of drinking milk on an empty stomach.
I've tried max 1g the first time I took it to see the effect. It made me depressed doomed hopeless for some hours. Now I take 100-300mg every day slowly sipping in drink no issue not sure of benefit because I take it every day consistently. The 1g dose felt like it did something good for my brain but also made me depressed
 

Peatress

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I mean just the texture of bread and baked goods, like if you dip a piece of croissant into milk and eat that, instead of drinking milk on an empty stomach.
I've tried max 1g the first time I took it to see the effect. It made me depressed doomed hopeless for some hours. Now I take 100-300mg every day slowly sipping in drink no issue not sure of benefit because I take it every day consistently. The 1g dose felt like it did something good for my brain but also made me depressed
Your body reacted appropriately to 1g - that was a hefty dose. For gut healing adding magnesium might improve your symptoms.

Adding starch back into my diet hasn't improved my gut but if you think it will help you try it for a while and see.
 
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