What is the highest (healthy) temperature, body can raise to naturally without issues?

[aniepodam]

Yesterday i measured a new record for me, 38.2C. My normal daily temp is 37.3C and highest, until yesterday, i saw was 38.0C several times. I didnt have any symptoms of fever, muscle weakness, fatigue etc. The only side effect i could point was sweating (but i already sweat a lot, max temp in which i feel somewhat comfortable is ~23.0C and now its like 25.0-26.0C in my flat).

So i started to wondering, how much can we raise the body temperature naturally (without strong thermogenics) without any negative issues (assumed that temp increase is purely metabolic - if that makes sense - not a response for infection). Does temps higher than my standard 37.3C could have any positive impact long-term?

 

[FredSonoma]

Ray has mentioned that people with fibrotic issues could intentionally become hyperthyroid (up to a temp of 100F and a pulse of 110 I think he said) for a little while in order to dissolve the fibrotic tissue

Especially if you feel good and not anxious / over-stimulated, I don't think there's anything to worry about

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Share us your secret. How were you able to get to such high temperatures? Did you always had high temps?

 

[aniepodam]

Share us your secret. How were you able to get to such high temperatures? Did you always had high temps?

I didnt measure my temps until i found out this forum, so i dont know. I dont know what is my secret, i just try to live healthy, avoid highly processed foods (im not peaty-dieting but i introduced more sugars, especially fruits and honey, and milk after joining this forum), im exercising quite consistently over 5 years (the first 3.5 years were mostly long-distance runnings, now im more focused at gaining muscle), keeping low body fat, optimizing testosterone and hormones in general, im currently neeting so no work-related stress and supplementing a lot.

What specifically raised my temp to my highest:
- eating ~300g of turkey breast and ~50g of honey
- betaine with pepsin to help digest so much protein
- 1mg of iodine
- 50ug of selenium
- 30mg of zinc

 

[equipoise]

That's too high. I think for euthyroid subjects anything consistenly over 37.3 is bad

 

[Eberhardt]

I tmight be an adrenal response. Adrenal response also gives elevated body-temp. Peat mentioned this so the temp must be considered in the context of other stuff (though I hear you said you are feeling fine) .I had 37.7 to 38.4 for a couple of months once and that was not a healthy reaction but triggered by to much cold and other stressors. Also it is possible to ramp things up to much. Some old uncouplingdrugs related to Bromocreptin that Peat mentioned was so effective people actually died from the heat production

 

[aniepodam]

I tmight be an adrenal response. Adrenal response also gives elevated body-temp. Peat mentioned this so the temp must be considered in the context of other stuff (though I hear you said you are feeling fine) .I had 37.7 to 38.4 for a couple of months once and that was not a healthy reaction but triggered by to much cold and other stressors. Also it is possible to ramp things up to much. Some old uncouplingdrugs related to Bromocreptin that Peat mentioned was so effective people actually died from the heat production

I was undereating carbs and was running on cortisol for too long but fixed that several months ago. I can feel the difference, especially my sleep and cold extremities improved. I dont know what was my temps then though.
I noticed temp above 37.3 only after some meals or meditation sessions (could be also after exercising, but never measured) so i think i can assume that these are healthy reactions and 37.3 is my healthy baseline?

 

[Eberhardt]

I was undereating carbs and was running on cortisol for too long but fixed that several months ago. I can feel the difference, especially my sleep and cold extremities improved. I dont know what was my temps then though.
I noticed temp above 37.3 only after some meals or meditation sessions (could be also after exercising, but never measured) so i think i can assume that these are healthy reactions and 37.3 is my healthy baseline?

Maybe. I also dabbled with low-carb 10 years ago. It doesnt heal in a linear fashion. It's obviously good that you feel better and that coldness and sleep improved. But itsnt necessarily so that the temp issue would heal simoultaneously. Sometimes it takes several years to heal all the effects of lowcarb(it did for me). I am quite sure that the superhigh temps after food and such is not a very healthy respons (though not exactly worrying, just more a sign that things are not optimal ) . SInce you get it after meals it could be part of a socalled "post-prandial andrenonergic syndrom" - which is the sudden surge of adrenalin that comes after a meal when you have low metabolism. The body then have a purge of adrenalin. Usually it manifests as freezing, shaking and nervousness but it can manisfest differently and with such high temps its very probable that it is an andrenalin reaction of some sort. Could be the same with meditation if it makes you relaxed. It then has some similiarities to a proper feeding in that it turns of the stress respons (sounds a bit contradictory but its like vitamin E and estrogen. E lowers estrogen but it also purges it from the system making it temporarily flood with estrogen sometimes as it gets rid of it) So it might be that when your body feels "safe" it flushes adrenalin, thus artificially raising body temps. The presence of these symptoms makes me suspect that the 37,3 is also a bit elevated by a stress reaction. If that was your natural healthy baseline I would suspect that you would not also have the reactions you do after meals. But I cant say 100% as we are so indvidual. I also used to train a lot and while I percieve the peatosphere as slightly biased against training I still think there is something in this. It can make the body always be in fight-mode. Among proffessional athletes morning temps is one thing that is sometimes used to measure if you are ready for more training as it can stay elevated for a couple of days after intense training. Usually these fluctuations after training are in the level of 0.1-0.3 degrees but they can be even more. SO it could be that your rested fed non-adrenonergic temp is more like 36.8 and you have 0.5C extra from training if you never have longer breaks between traning. Even if you dont train as much as a proffesional athelte the situation where you are recovering metabolically after low-carbs and possibly other stuff might make you more susceptible to this as the bodies stress-resiliance would then be weakend.

Personally I would try some grounding/earthing as well . I started doing it after seeing that video with Peat and the results have been amazing both by lowering cortizol and adrenalin You should be Earthing/Grounding

 

[aniepodam]

Thats alot information :)

I am quite sure that the superhigh temps after food and such is not a very healthy respons (though not exactly worrying, just more a sign that things are not optimal )

I always thought eating is generally thermogenic, especially high protein meals, so i assumed that increased body temp is something normal/healthy after eating.

SInce you get it after meals it could be part of a socalled "post-prandial andrenonergic syndrom" - which is the sudden surge of adrenalin that comes after a meal when you have low metabolism ... Usually it manifests as freezing, shaking and nervousness but it can manisfest differently and with such high temps its very probable that it is an andrenalin reaction of some sort.

Im sort of used to adrenalin response from taking yohimbine or not properly fed long runnings and its definitely not even close what i feel after eating/meditation.

I also used to train a lot and while I percieve the peatosphere as slightly biased against training I still think there is something in this. It can make the body always be in fight-mode.

Especially when you are at caloric deficit or undereating protein/carbs. Your recovery isnt on top then and its easy to overtrain. Been there, done that. Still i think theres more benefits than harm. Muscle building had probably more positive impact on my social anxiety than anything i tried.

 

[Dr. B]

I didnt measure my temps until i found out this forum, so i dont know. I dont know what is my secret, i just try to live healthy, avoid highly processed foods (im not peaty-dieting but i introduced more sugars, especially fruits and honey, and milk after joining this forum), im exercising quite consistently over 5 years (the first 3.5 years were mostly long-distance runnings, now im more focused at gaining muscle), keeping low body fat, optimizing testosterone and hormones in general, im currently neeting so no work-related stress and supplementing a lot.

What specifically raised my temp to my highest:
- eating ~300g of turkey breast and ~50g of honey
- betaine with pepsin to help digest so much protein
- 1mg of iodine
- 50ug of selenium
- 30mg of zinc

what is neeting?
iodine lowered my temperatures as did high doses of zinc...
how long have you been using those doses of zinc, iodine, and eating that much turkey breast?
you dont consume calcium?

100 degrees F is probably the safest you can maintain regularly

I tmight be an adrenal response. Adrenal response also gives elevated body-temp. Peat mentioned this so the temp must be considered in the context of other stuff (though I hear you said you are feeling fine) .I had 37.7 to 38.4 for a couple of months once and that was not a healthy reaction but triggered by to much cold and other stressors. Also it is possible to ramp things up to much. Some old uncouplingdrugs related to Bromocreptin that Peat mentioned was so effective people actually died from the heat production

which uncoupling drugs are you referring to?

 

[Eberhardt]

what is neeting?
iodine lowered my temperatures as did high doses of zinc...
how long have you been using those doses of zinc, iodine, and eating that much turkey breast?
you dont consume calcium?

100 degrees F is probably the safest you can maintain regularly


which uncoupling drugs are you referring to?

I am sorry I dont remember. It was something I heard Peat speak of in an interview several years ago

 

[Eberhardt]

Thats alot information :)


I always thought eating is generally thermogenic, especially high protein meals, so i assumed that increased body temp is something normal/healthy after eating.


Im sort of used to adrenalin response from taking yohimbine or not properly fed long runnings and its definitely not even close what i feel after eating/meditation.


Especially when you are at caloric deficit or undereating protein/carbs. Your recovery isnt on top then and its easy to overtrain. Been there, done that. Still i think theres more benefits than harm. Muscle building had probably more positive impact on my social anxiety than anything i tried

I know :P
Eating IS thermogenic but it gives some sideeffects while the body is adjusting/repairing the damaged metabolism. So its not symptoms to be avoided more a sign that all is not yet well

That would probably be a part of the reason why you now very likely have chronically elevated bodytemp. But no I dont mean it feels the same and it didnt for me either- its more a paralell of mechanism. AND I am more thinking of your more permanent 37.3 which is not impossibly high when thinking of the training contributing. Unfed morning runs are though very metabolicly taxing and have been shown to decrease mitochondria and even cause mis-reproduciton in dna copying. And combine with you Yohimbe you have been giving your body a hard time for sure. I used to do triathlones so I know, even if I wasnt professional or anything.

I agree there is more benefit then harm but it depends on the level. Its surprising how low the tapering off benefit level is even according to mainstream research. I still do train and find it to be very rewarding but I dont go above one or two strength sessions a week and one or two "cardio" activities- say one sprint session and one teamsport session. The thing is if you are allready metabolically run down it takes very little to kickstart the adrenalresponse meaning you can do just enough to keep you in an elevated state. As a general rule if you hate doing it/and or its long duration it is probably(?!) not good for your health. When it comes to running the mortality starts going upwards if you run more then 17.5 miles(25km) per week. And also if you run faster than 8.5miles(12.9 km per hour. It is of course debatable exactly what the optimal level is and results will vary individually

But it has a lot in common with low carb and what I belive it was Matt Stone (or danny?) called the catecholamin honeymoon. Some people feel good for years on low-carb before they crash hard and its often because the body can keep you running on adrenals a looong time if your are strongly buildt, before finally crashing. And it usually takes years to correct. So unless you are more then 5 years at least into your metabolic journey its a good chanse you are still partly on that. Not saying to stop all training, but keep it brief and fun and be aware of your bodies reactions. Walking usually is tolerated very well evenn if I always had a hard tiem to consider that to be any menaningful activity that could be called training. But activity is good I am absolutly sure personally. But I had to stop training 5- 8 times a week and especially the long runs. hope this makes some sense

 

[Dr. B]

I am sorry I dont remember. It was something I heard Peat speak of in an interview several years ago

thanks mate i was actually asking the other guy

I know :P
Eating IS thermogenic but it gives some sideeffects while the body is adjusting/repairing the damaged metabolism. So its not symptoms to be avoided more a sign that all is not yet well

That would probably be a part of the reason why you now very likely have chronically elevated bodytemp. But no I dont mean it feels the same and it didnt for me either- its more a paralell of mechanism. AND I am more thinking of your more permanent 37.3 which is not impossibly high when thinking of the training contributing. Unfed morning runs are though very metabolicly taxing and have been shown to decrease mitochondria and even cause mis-reproduciton in dna copying. And combine with you Yohimbe you have been giving your body a hard time for sure. I used to do triathlones so I know, even if I wasnt professional or anything.

I agree there is more benefit then harm but it depends on the level. Its surprising how low the tapering off benefit level is even according to mainstream research. I still do train and find it to be very rewarding but I dont go above one or two strength sessions a week and one or two "cardio" activities- say one sprint session and one teamsport session. The thing is if you are allready metabolically run down it takes very little to kickstart the adrenalresponse meaning you can do just enough to keep you in an elevated state. As a general rule if you hate doing it/and or its long duration it is probably(?!) not good for your health. When it comes to running the mortality starts going upwards if you run more then 17.5 miles(25km) per week. And also if you run faster than 8.5miles(12.9 km per hour. It is of course debatable exactly what the optimal level is and results will vary individually

But it has a lot in common with low carb and what I belive it was Matt Stone (or danny?) called the catecholamin honeymoon. Some people feel good for years on low-carb before they crash hard and its often because the body can keep you running on adrenals a looong time if your are strongly buildt, before finally crashing. And it usually takes years to correct. So unless you are more then 5 years at least into your metabolic journey its a good chanse you are still partly on that. Not saying to stop all training, but keep it brief and fun and be aware of your bodies reactions. Walking usually is tolerated very well evenn if I always had a hard tiem to consider that to be any menaningful activity that could be called training. But activity is good I am absolutly sure personally. But I had to stop training 5- 8 times a week and especially the long runs. hope this makes some sense

thanks, that was actually the other guy, im not sure how i got quoted
what happens when the adrenals crash? how do you correct the adrenal crash?

 

[Eberhardt]

thanks mate i was actually asking the other guy



thanks, that was actually the other guy, im not sure how i got quoted
what happens when the adrenals crash? how do you correct the adrenal crash?

I might have pressed a wrong button somewhere to sometimes I struggle to make this thing do what I want to but anyways:

The adrenals crash when they are exhausted. They will grow also to compensate for the heavy use, but with time one of two (or both if you're reallly lucky) is bound to happen. SInce adrenals are part of the HPA axis (Hypothalamus - pituitary - adrenal axis) which is the bodies main system for handling stress it means the body's general stress adaption respons is then permanently activated. This was primarly researched by Hans Selye who is the originator or modern stress research since the 60's. He showed that GAS Generall adaption syndrome - is what happens when this axis is (permanently) activated. When the body senses some stressor - physically or psychologically the hypothalamus sends a signal to the pituitary which then activates the adrenals. Its one of the four major neuroendocrinal signal systems in the body and to my knowledge the primary one contolling stress-respons. The others contain the same first two ones but has gonads and thyroid gland respectively as the third element of the axis. The if the stressor is to strong or lasts too long the body can get stuck in GAS mode leading to chronically unbalanced levels. This basically means all innflammatory responses are up and metabolic factors is down. If your adrenals run out first you notice it by being completly permanently exhausted, if they can keep up the result instead comes through differeent degrees of system failure, be it specific diseases or more wellknown factors such as cancer, heart disease and diabetes. Whatever is your weakest link breaks first. In generall this subject it is much of what Peats ideas is about - he is very fond of Hans Selye.

When they crach you start feeling what has been going on in the background metabolically. In a way it is good because you get told very strongly something is not well without necessarily having developed any life-threatening disease yet.

Meaning every prometabolic measure helps you correct it - take away stressors (the big one at least you are not supposed to avoid life) and give the body what it needs. SOmetimes there is need for lots of rest, sometimes its more psychological, sometimes its diet. - usually its a mix. Enough light is also important. As I mention sometimes I find earthing to be very beneficial as it decreases cortisol which is the other side of adrenalin (it is after all the adreno- chorticoid system).

Peat feels that it can be helpfull to kickstart the system sometimes by adding a short cure of pregnenelone and progesterone. Or thyroid. Broad Barnes used thyroid a lot for psychological issues as well. I find it a bit problematic using this approach personally as I think liver health which is crucial for making use of this kickstart so often are compromised in modern life meaning it might work less well then it did 50 years ago.

But give the body time to heal, rest, proper nutrition, some movement and sunlight is the first line of defence. to me it has been what has worked best by far even if I tried the kickstarting. But the idea behind kickstarting is that sometimes a nudge can get the body of stuck mode.

This was a sort of vague and long answer but it was a huge question so I just try to make some broad sketch here

 

[aniepodam]

what is neeting?
iodine lowered my temperatures as did high doses of zinc...
how long have you been using those doses of zinc, iodine, and eating that much turkey breast?
you dont consume calcium?

100 degrees F is probably the safest you can maintain regularly

NEET - not in employment, education or training

I dont use zinc regularly, just lately dont eat much food with it, so take it sometimes. Iodine introduced less than month ago so this alone didnt have impact on my baseline levels as i already had that temp earlier. That amount of turkey breast daily is my short-term diet modification. I drink 1L of milk daily (sometimes more) and eat other dairy from time to time so i think i have slightly above 1.5g calcium daily on average.

 

[aniepodam]

Eating IS thermogenic but it gives some sideeffects while the body is adjusting/repairing the damaged metabolism. So its not symptoms to be avoided more a sign that all is not yet well

Well, if eating is thermogenic so how do i know when increased temp after meal is a sign that not all is fine, as it is intended to increase temp?

That would probably be a part of the reason why you now very likely have chronically elevated bodytemp. But no I dont mean it feels the same and it didnt for me either- its more a paralell of mechanism. AND I am more thinking of your more permanent 37.3 which is not impossibly high when thinking of the training contributing. Unfed morning runs are though very metabolicly taxing and have been shown to decrease mitochondria and even cause mis-reproduciton in dna copying. And combine with you Yohimbe you have been giving your body a hard time for sure. I used to do triathlones so I know, even if I wasnt professional or anything.

Its not that my temp is permanent 37.3. Early in the morning i still measured like 36.3-36.6 (niacin also lowers my body temp to similar amount) so daily temp cycle is working probably fine (although i sometimes saw 37.3 in the morning, but regarding what you say, that could be sign of not recovered enough from exercising?).

But it has a lot in common with low carb and what I belive it was Matt Stone (or danny?) called the catecholamin honeymoon. Some people feel good for years on low-carb before they crash hard and its often because the body can keep you running on adrenals a looong time if your are strongly buildt, before finally crashing. And it usually takes years to correct. So unless you are more then 5 years at least into your metabolic journey its a good chanse you are still partly on that. Not saying to stop all training, but keep it brief and fun and be aware of your bodies reactions. Walking usually is tolerated very well evenn if I always had a hard tiem to consider that to be any menaningful activity that could be called training. But activity is good I am absolutly sure personally. But I had to stop training 5- 8 times a week and especially the long runs. hope this makes some sense

It is not that i purposely was low carb dieting or something. After i stopped focusing on long-distance runnings i started focusing more on gym and ate similar. At this time i had dietetian support and was feeling good. But then i wanted to try keto, which lasted 3 weeks, as it wasnt sustainable for me to eat 3k kcal that way and after that i just somehow didnt back to my previous diet and was definitely undereating carbs. It was like 150-200g daily. It lasted a year or slightly more and now i know that it was bad for me, as recovery was poor, sleep was poor and i hadnt energy for the whole day. Now im feeling pretty good comaparing to those days, but despite changing diet for better, i dont have to stress over work for now and sun/more light also do a miracle.

 

[Eberhardt]

Well, if eating is thermogenic so how do i know when increased temp after meal is a sign that not all is fine, as it is intended to increase temp?


Its not that my temp is permanent 37.3. Early in the morning i still measured like 36.3-36.6 (niacin also lowers my body temp to similar amount) so daily temp cycle is working probably fine (although i sometimes saw 37.3 in the morning, but regarding what you say, that could be sign of not recovered enough from exercising?).


It is not that i purposely was low carb dieting or something. After i stopped focusing on long-distance runnings i started focusing more on gym and ate similar. At this time i had dietetian support and was feeling good. But then i wanted to try keto, which lasted 3 weeks, as it wasnt sustainable for me to eat 3k kcal that way and after that i just somehow didnt back to my previous diet and was definitely undereating carbs. It was like 150-200g daily. It lasted a year or slightly more and now i know that it was bad for me, as recovery was poor, sleep was poor and i hadnt energy for the whole day. Now im feeling pretty good comaparing to those days, but despite changing diet for better, i dont have to stress over work for now and sun/more light also do a miracle.

Iam not sure I can help you but at least I can tip in on it.
It is thermogenic but if your metabolism is healed it should not make much difference. the fluctuations become almost imperceptable. When glycogen is not depleted and atp is plenty, the food just keeps it up, and doesnt increase it much further. It is not thermogenic in the true sense of the word, but it increases temp IF its lowered due to energy shortage (which it for many people is) but eating more after that won't keep heating you. It actually just restores metabolism.

I would still belive so as 36.3 is quite low. Everbody is different an its supposedly natural that body temp goes down a bit at night but I am personally finally (after 10 years roughly) up at a more or less stable 37.0 from morning to evening. That doesnt mean all healthissues has cleard up for me but I still find it to be a good sign. It could very well be the exercise as there is reason to suspect your body hasnt gotten enough time to heal so it has a lowered treshold for entering stressmode from exercise. I dont know you and how long since but I get the impression we are not talking many years. It could also be something else but I am quite confident it is a bit "fakely" elevated by some adrenalin(the 37.3). Also the fact that you can get as hot as you do after exercising. I can also sometimes go at least up to 37.8 after sprinting though. I by the way find that as I heal the body swets less. Most athlete sweat profoundly. It is surely adaptive for performence but not for health as it is supposedly (according to peat) controlled by estrogen. But no sweat can also be bad :P

On the eating experience mine was 4-5 weeks (dont remember but maximum two months) it was ***t, I didnt adapt but had cramps and bad mood and brainfog. Then somehow I also didnt come back to previous diet for a year. I had maybe 5 or 6 years of allergy problems after that. BUt on a more positive note. You must decide for yourself of course- I only try reflecting. But it seems like you are sort of lucky. You are feeling fairly ok/good and has no major sideeffects that you are aware of - it is better though to take it seriously and get it solved while feeling ok then letting it slide. I surely made my (or I guess at least) I made my recovery slower by training to intensly in m recoveryperiod. now I do it for health and that doesnt take that much (though I can enjoy it). But main thing I had to cut was long distance cardio , both bike and running. For me that was the most taxing. I have no idea about the rest of your life and diet - my answer is very much just reflecting back on the info you have written in this thread. But not stressing with work and having sun/light is great - I belive that is very important as well! :)

 

[Andman]

thats a pretty great temp congrats. hows your resting pulse? you could also try the achilles tendon reflex test as a pretty reliable way to interpret thyroid function as well as mood, digestion, bowel movements etc.

 

[aniepodam]

I by the way find that as I heal the body swets less. Most athlete sweat profoundly. It is surely adaptive for performence but not for health as it is supposedly (according to peat) controlled by estrogen. But no sweat can also be bad :P

Ive always sweat out alot during exercise or very hot days since childhood, besides i wouldnt say i had a problem with sweating, but i had elevated estrogen when i checked it first time last year. I think i corrected that (progressively saw better numbers and results taken several months ago were fine, didnt do another tests since then) and didnt saw any difference in sweating, so i think it may be just adaptive/genetics.

On the eating experience mine was 4-5 weeks (dont remember but maximum two months) it was ***t, I didnt adapt but had cramps and bad mood and brainfog. Then somehow I also didnt come back to previous diet for a year. I had maybe 5 or 6 years of allergy problems after that. BUt on a more positive note. You must decide for yourself of course- I only try reflecting. But it seems like you are sort of lucky. You are feeling fairly ok/good and has no major sideeffects that you are aware of - it is better though to take it seriously and get it solved while feeling ok then letting it slide. I surely made my (or I guess at least) I made my recovery slower by training to intensly in m recoveryperiod. now I do it for health and that doesnt take that much (though I can enjoy it). But main thing I had to cut was long distance cardio , both bike and running. For me that was the most taxing. I have no idea about the rest of your life and diet - my answer is very much just reflecting back on the info you have written in this thread. But not stressing with work and having sun/light is great - I belive that is very important as well! :)

I felt quite good on my keto (gym performance decreased but had more mental energy and less fatigue), but it was way too hard to keep less than 50g of carbs with that amount of calories, so i just gave up.

Yup, im trying to find out whats good for me and what makes me feel energetic and motivated, now when i have time to focus on myself. I didnt assume that my temp alone could indicate some issues, as almost everyone here says "the more the better", at least that is how i see this forum. It is good to have another opinion.

 

[aniepodam]

thats a pretty great temp congrats. hows your resting pulse? you could also try the achilles tendon reflex test as a pretty reliable way to interpret thyroid function as well as mood, digestion, bowel movements etc.

Didnt measure lately. Back in the days when i was running more it was like 45-50 in sleep, but a lot changed since then.