[Discussion] Raising Body Temperature

[Hans]

@Hans

I wanted to ask about salt.

Do you pay attention to salt?

I think I'm getting not enough salt. Right now, I'm getting about 4.3 g of salt from food per day. I do add a tiny bit of salt to my potatoes, but not much. So, 4.3 g / d roughly.

I've been reading on salt lately and it seems like it's important that I raise the amount of salt I'm getting per day based on what I've been reading around on here.

Curious to know how much important you put on salt ('yes, it's important', or 'no, it's not important and I don't pay attention to how much I get') and what you shoot for for daily intake.

Thanks

Yeah definitely pay attention to salt. I think it's very important for a healthy metabolism and to keep the undesired hormones low and temps up.

I don't go for a certain dose, but just salt my food to taste.

 

[jzeno]

Update

Bad news. CoQ10 stopped working. Don't know why.

Good news. I took some salt and it raised my body temperature.

When the CoQ10 stopped working about 3 days after I started using it (yesterday), sometime in the morning I got to searching for different things on here and I got the idea to search for people's favorite supplements out of curiosity and I stumbled onto this post about salt:

What Is Your Favorite Supplement So Far (poll Included)

"Salt is number one for me. Taking half a teaspoon 6x to 8x throughout the day has done more for my body Temps than anything else..
Second is coffee & then sugar. But above all frequent meals every 3 to 4 hours is key."

I thought, "That's weird because I think I'm getting enough salt--but salt is so cheap and easy to try, I'll try it and just see what happens". Sure enough, I made a salt-water drink and drank it slowly and my body warmed right up. It was amazing. It felt very good.

I'm not sure why, but maybe I'm a little salt deficient right now. I did come off some extreme diets recently (keto) so maybe my body just needs a bunch of food and nutrients. It's interesting because I've been eating cheese with bread with most meals since I started a Ray Peat inspired diet and every time I do, it seems to warm me up, too. I thought it was the cheese (calcium) warming me up, but now I understand it's probably the huge amounts of salt! This cheese has tons of salt in it.

I've been adding salt to my OJ and other things and despite it being cold out of the fridge it warms me up now! Amazing! Before, it would make me cold! I can't believe it.

This is all very strange to me, but it seems to be working.

Amazing how fast and well this stuff works! I didn't think it would be as simple as aspirin and lots of salt. Who would have guessed?

Man I'm so grateful to be warm again. It was like hell being cold all the time.

Thanks again to everyone who shared their ideas. I look forward to trying MB and the other suggestions in the near future too to see if I can make any more progress once I stabilize again.

 

[methylenewhite]

Get salt without additives. Im not sure but i think in US its kosher salt. The best ever salt I tried was sea salt from Arabic sea it was grey and tastes so good.

 

[jzeno]

@methylenwhite

Nice. I have white Sea salt. I think I can get canning salt too. I hear this is good. Maybe once I run out, I'll try other salts.

Edit: Hans, I just noticed you mentioned salt in your original post and I didn't even look it over. What a skeptic I was.

[Discussion] Raising Body Temperature

Thanks again.

 

[jzeno]

Formal Update #1

Okay. So for those who are following, these are the changes I've made (based on Hans and methylenwhites recommendations) and their effect:

• Aspirin: 1 81 mg uncoated tablet/ d increased to 11 uncoated 325 mg tablets/ d spread throughout the day
  • Effect: Raised rising core temp from 97.7 F to 98.3 F (Highly recommended--espeically 2 before bed for good sleep)
• CoQ10: 0 increased to 1 100 mg softgel / d
  • Effect: Initially flushed body for about 3 days with heat to ankles and feet, thereafter effect wore off but I continue taking it (Recommend, but maybe not specifically for raising body temp like I'm trying to achieve but for other health-promoting reasons)
• Salt: 4.3 g sodium / d increased to 11 g sodium / d
  • Effect: Seems to combat the effect of consuming larges amounts of liquids and cold liquids on this diet and seems to raise my temperature and assist with metabolism (Recommended that salt levels be experimented with--higher levels are actually not that dangerous as I previously was under the impression of)

Looking over Hans original post with all of his original suggestions ([Discussion] Raising Body Temperature), I see he also recommended some other things which I don't know what they are or haven't tried yet:

"Try using uncouplers to increase temps. Aspirin, methylene blue, caffeine, saturated fat such as MCT oil and stearic acid, salt, etc."​

...and...

"...This can be done with a combination of niacinamide, methylene blue, stearic acid, red light, Pyrucet (by promoting oxidative phosphorylation), caffeine, thyroid, AMPK promotors, sarcosine, etc. This can get real complicated fast so I don't want to elaborate too much on that now."​

I'm trying aspirin, haven't tried MB, I take caffeine, I take coconut oil (occasionally), do not know what Stearic Acid is (hint: found out it's just MCT oil), just started adding in salt, have not tried Pyrucet, thyroid, AMPK promoters or sarcosine or benzoic acid yet.

So, I did some searching and I thought stearic acid was some obscure supplement, but it's just a fatty acid found in MCT oil, so consider that added to my diet. Hans suggests 1-2 tablespoons per meal in his write up here (Uncoupling: Secret to Fat loss and Health), so I'll start with that and see what kind of results I get.

Next of the rest, MB seems to be the most accessible. The others, I can wait to try after I add these first two in (Stearic Acid, MB) and see what happens as the rest are more exotic and less accessible then these two. I already have MCT oil in my cupboard and I can get MB for like $20. MB seems less risky and Hans suggests it as one of his most reliable uncouplers, so I'll give that a shot first.

I also want to re-highlight this quote from Hans on why people experience a heat bump in their body temperature from starches, such as potatoes:

"I think the reason people feel a great increase in temp from starches is because it spikes insulin which drives glucose oxidation and inhibits lipolysis and so on, whereas fruits and milk don't spike insulin in the same way and therefore doesn't produce the same effect. But in someone that is more insulin resistant, continuously consuming glucose and spiking insulin might exacerbate insulin resistance, as it doesn't shut down lipolysis as it should and then the glucose is converted to lactate which has an anti-metabolic effect.

To increase temps permanently, restoring mitochondrial function and insulin sensitivity (as well as thyroid function) is most important. To do that you need to repair mitochondrial damage, get rid of old damaged mitochondria through fission and mitophagy, and promote fusion to enhance the function of working mitochondria. This can be done with a combination of niacinamide, methylene blue, stearic acid, red light, Pyrucet (by promoting oxidative phosphorylation), caffeine, thyroid, AMPK promotors, sarcosine, etc. This can get real complicated fast so I don't want to elaborate too much on that now."

[Discussion] Raising Body Temperature
​

This is interesting because if you search on this forum, many people report potatoes as helping to instantly raise their body temperature more than anything in those in need of a quick boost. Hans here tries to explain why that is and why it might feel good in the short term but not be in our best interest in the long run. I think I'm going to experiment with this long-term perspective and see if I can't break a dependency on potatoes for body warmth, because right now they are the single best food I eat for body warmth for me as well. If I'm cold, I know I can have some potatoes and my whole body will warm up fairly quickly. Let's see if some of these other things can't help in repairing mitochondrial function.

Will provide an update when I get some noteworthy experiences to record from added stearic acid and MB.

All the best.

 

[Hans]

The stearic acid is a long chain saturated fat with 18 carbons, C18, whereas MCT oil consists of two medium chain fats, C8 and C10. Stearic acid melts at around 70C which would make it a complicated supplement to use. Most of the plain stearic acid on the market is actually a combination between palmitic acid and stearic acid, usually 40/60%. Plus, the stearic acid is in triglyceride form, so the body has to break it down into free stearic acid with lipase, which might also be a problem because of the high melting point.
There is a product called stearyl alcohol which as a free stearic acid with an alcohol attached, which should make it easily absorbable and effective.
Some people get pure stearic acid flakes and use that, but it can cause stomach issues. I got the pure stearic acid flakes and melted it in the potatoes I used to eat. Some people also make brownies with it to improve absorption.
Stearic acid is more than just an uncoupler, as it also promotes mitochondrial fusion, lowers cortisol and visceral fat, helps to build muscle, is androgenic and anti-estrogenic, displaces PUFAs from the cell membranes, improving cellular integrity and function.

 

[tankasnowgod]

@tankasnowgod

Do you sleep inclined? I've never done this myself so I'm not familiar, but a quick Google search shows improved circulation as a benefit.

Reference: Home - Inclined Bed Therapy IBT - Restore & Support Your Health

Hey, sorry, didn't see this till just now.

Yes, I do sleep inclined, have been for 8 months, and love it, never going back to sleeping flat. It certainly improves circulation, and heat distribution throughout the body. It reduced my need for thyroid, but I had to kick it back up this winter, it's been particularly cold and rainy. Also, realized I had made some dietary changes that I think screwed me up a bit for the last few months.

I changed that, cutting out the big offending foods, and it's been a bit warmer here this week, and I am feeling great, need for thyroid down, and mood is noticeably improved.

This was my separate testimonial after doing it for two months (note- middle of summer when written) Sleeping Inclined Has Improved My Waking Temperature, Reduced My Need For Thyroid

 

[jzeno]

@tankasnowgod

Nice. Thanks for sharing.

Will check it out when I get a chance. Unfortunately, I'm not much in a position convenience wise to invest in a bed or something that helps me sleep at an inclined angle, but I'll look more into that and it might just convince me to prioritize it.

Thank you

 

[jzeno]

@Hans

According to your post (Uncoupling: Secret to Fat loss and Health), you suggest 15 mg of MB. That is a huge amount--something like 30+ drops of idealabs's Oxidal, which provides 0.4 mg of MB per drop.

38 * 0.4 = 15.2 mg

Do you really suggest taking 15 mg of MB to start rather than the .4 mg available in a single dose? And then just adjust based on urine color? Shed some light here, please.

I'm planning on just taking a single dose (1 drop--0.4 mg of MB / day) but if you think I should take more I'm willing to hear what you have to say, I just would like a little more explanation if you don't mind sharing your reasoning for suggesting that people should take such a large amount.

Thanks Hans.

 

[tankasnowgod]

@tankasnowgod

Nice. Thanks for sharing.

Will check it out when I get a chance. Unfortunately, I'm not much in a position convenience wise to invest in a bed or something that helps me sleep at an inclined angle, but I'll look more into that and it might just convince me to prioritize it.

Thank you

The beautiful part is, you don't have to invest in a new bed. I literally tried it out for free before I went to home depot and "invested" in some more sturdy bricks to place under the bed to rise it up (probably cost about $20). There are some very cheap ways to do it, depending on your bed, and if you have some old books, bricks or blocks around, you can do it for no out of pocket cost.

Various methods listed here- Methods Of Raising A Bed For Inclined Bed Therapy - Inclined Bed Therapy IBT - Restore & Support Your Health

 

[Hans]

Definitely start with a small dose. It would be best to find a dose that works for you and not just jump on a high dose. Oxidal is a combination of uncouplers, so that will also reduce the amount needed. Maybe start with 1mg and then work up to 5mg.

 

[jzeno]

@Hans

Thanks. Will do.

@tankasnowgod

Oh Nice. Thanks for sharing. I might find one in here that works for me. Thanks for sharing

 

[jzeno]

Update

Just wanted to share that large amounts of salt have completely improved the quality of my sleep. I wake up easily ever since two days ago when I started chugging down salt and I sleep through the whole night and I feel very rested and refreshed when I wake up compared to before. Before it was a pain in the butt to wake up, I felt so tired and I just wanted to stay in bed forever because I never felt rested. Like night and day difference with large amounts of salt.

I think there is still room for progress, but I am extremely happy with the results I've gotten with respect to sleep so far. What a game changer.

Thank you for the suggestions guys. I wish I wouldn't have ignored your suggestion in your first post Hans. Good tip.

Looking forward to MB and Pyrucet and extra Stearic Acid.

 

[Cirion]

Interesting. That is a lot of salt for sure haha. What kind of salt? Sea salt, pink salt?

Nathan Hatch says a lot of salt may be problematic, since you get a TON of chloride with that much salt, you just do straight salt and no/little sodium bicarbonate?

Also did you happen to take your waking temps/pulses on the days you felt better? How many hrs of sleep vs. how many hrs of sleep normally?

I tend to not really feel remotely rested unless I get like 10-12 hrs of sleep myself so I know I have issues lol.

 

[Curiousman]

Vitamin B6
Without this vitamin the thyroid cannot utilise its iodine raw material efficiently to make the hormones. This vitamin is needed even more by an overactive thyroid. Muscle weakness is very common in people with an overactive thyroid and in those who are also lacking in B6.

 

[jzeno]

@Cirion

White sea salt, fine ground. Straight salt, no sodium bicarbonate.

Last night I went to bed after 12 AM (midnight) and woke up with the sun, which was 6:30 AM today. So, 6.5 hours of sleep--feeling good. I generally try to go to bed by 10:30 PM, but I didn't feel tired at 10:30 PM last night so I relaxed until I got tired.

I stopped taking my temp because it's still winter but I feel perfectly warm. The last time I did, upon rising my temp was 98.3 F whereas before it was 97.7 F. My only remaining symptoms which I'm trying to relieve is the remainder of coldness I occasionally experience in my ankles.

The added, extra salt, while it may seem like a lot, I only take it when I drink liquids. So, for every 8 oz of liquids, I just add about 1/4 of teaspoon of salt. So, 16 oz of OJ? 1/2 of teaspoon. Boom, shake it up, sip it naturally. It tastes great by the way! Salt improves the flavor and I like it a lot. I prefer it this way, now.

On average I drink 12 oz of coffee, twice. 16 oz of OJ 2 or 3 times per day. So that's about 1/2 teaspoon x 3 (OJ) and then another 1/8 teaspoon x 2 (coffee), so about 1.5 teaspoons of extra salt on the low end and up to 2.25 teaspoons of extra salt. It's not hard and fast--there is a bit of intuition to it, but I am generally experimenting with taking large amounts of extra salt to see the effect. I think 2.5 g of sodium / day (WHO, US suggestions) are much too low and I was not getting enough salt before. There is a lot of research showing that too much salt is less dangerous than too little.

This video helped me to understand why too little salt is more dangerous than too much: Skip to 9:01



Another good video:



@Cirion

Here's a very good thread started by Haidut about sodium and it's beneficial effects of increasing metabolism and therefore actually helping encourage weight-loss

More Dietary Salt Increases Urea Synthesis And Energy Requirements

Important quotes:

Haidut

>I don't think 10g is that much. Up until the early 1960s the average salt intake for an adult in the US was about 12g-15g daily. These days, with everything being made "low sodium" by default, those 10g probably bring you closer to normality and not anywhere in danger-zone. But I think salt should be eaten to taste, not so much based on set daily goals.

More Dietary Salt Increases Urea Synthesis And Energy Requirements

>That's what the whole study was about - extra salt increases urea synthesis, which is an energetically demanding process, hence the increase in caloric demands. It's even in the title.

More Dietary Salt Increases Urea Synthesis And Energy Requirements

>Thanks. That last part about lower aldosterone should be rubbed into the faces of ALL cardiologists who relentlessly prescribe salt restriction for people with heart problems, and in more severe cases even dole out aldosterone antagonists like spironolactone.
Spironolactone - Wikipedia

>All this fraud and money wasted on drugs when the solution is simply...eat more salt (to taste).

More Dietary Salt Increases Urea Synthesis And Energy Requirements

Edit: Oh, I just realized you commented on that thread, Cirion. Well, consider this here for anyone else who is reading this thread.

 

[jzeno]

Quick Update

Got my Pyrucet and MB in the mail.

Took a single dose of each 500 mg and 1 .2 mg, respectively. Noticed a bit of a 'pump' in the limbs. Nothing crazy. I did notice that after I took my afternoon walk (30 minutes), had less of this weird thing I experience, where my legs pump really heavy with ever heartbeat. So, typically, after a walk, my heart would beat (like normal) and then the veins in my legs would pump really heavy. I don't know what you call this, but I've had it for a while. After the Pyrucet and Oxidal (MB) I didn't notice this phenomenon. So, I take it that's good? Can't say. Thought I'd share.

It's warming up a bit here (weather wise), so I don't know if I'm going to notice as much effect without the threat of the bitter cold but hopefully we get a cold snap so I can really put this to test to see if my feet and ankles still get cold. Otherwise, I'll just have to accept the situation until next winter to test it all out.

Will provide an update once I have something to share.

 

[jzeno]

Quick update

I am having a positive response from the Pyrucet. When I take it, my ankles do warm up a tad. It isn't intense and it doesn't seem to be permanent, just temporary.

The MB doesn't seem to have any noticeable effect yet. I took 1.2 mg (3 drops) on the first day (afternoon) and then this morning I took 5.2 mg (13 drops). Nothing seems to happen immediately that I'm able to perceive.

 

[Hans]

The methylene blue takes a few days to build up, so the effect might become more greater in a few days.

 

[jzeno]

Quick Update

After my second dose of 5.2 mg this morning my urine was a shade of blue. Not very dark, but it still looked blue.

Today was kind of cold but my ankles weren't really cold at all. I still think I need it to be really cold outside again before I can see if it's not just in my head.

@Hans

Does this stuff affect the way you wake up? Since I started Pyrucet and MB I find it hard to get out of bed. When I was taking high salt, I felt it was the easiest it's been in a long time. I woke up feeling super refreshed but now I feel tired. Does MB affect you this way?

Second, this process--are we essentially trying to increase mitochondrial function? Is that what all of this uncoupling is about in a nutshell? That's what I'm gathering from everything you've been sharing.