Vitamins C And E Can Prevent Metabolic Damage In Extreme Ex

J

j.

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A new study by researchers in the Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University found that ultramarathon runners who used supplements of vitamins C and E for six weeks prior to their races totally prevented the increase in lipid oxidation that is otherwise associated with extreme exercise.

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J

j.

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Re: Vitamins C And E Can Prevent Metabolic Damage In Extreme

Of note:

Interestingly, the male runners who did not receive supplements continued their unusually high levels of oxidized lipids for almost a week, while the metabolism of females returned to normal in a day.
 

Gabriel

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Re: Vitamins C And E Can Prevent Metabolic Damage In Extreme

However:

Consistent with the concept of mitohormesis, exercise-induced oxidative stress ameliorates insulin resistance and causes an adaptive response promoting endogenous antioxidant defense capacity. Supplementation with antioxidants [vitamin C and vitamin E] may preclude these health-promoting effects of exercise in humans.

Source: Antioxidants prevent health-promoting effects of physical exercise in humans
 

fabiomln

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Re: Vitamins C And E Can Prevent Metabolic Damage In Extreme

The concept of hormesis is very questionable. In fact, those that argue that low-dose stimulation is beneficial, also state, for example, ionizing radiation at low doses are beneficial. Peat clearly does not think so.

From: http://raypeat.com/pdf/Radiation-and-Gr ... y-2011.pdf
These perennial arguments are now being used to sell radioactive rocks to cure cancer.The idea of "radiation hormesis," that in small amount of radiation is positively good for the health, is even being popularized by Internet sites: such as Dr.Mercola 's
 

Gabriel

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Re: Vitamins C And E Can Prevent Metabolic Damage In Extreme

The concept of taking high dose antioxidants before exercise or continously in a hope to prolong live or promote health is equally questionable.

I dont think you can compare radiation hormesis to hormesis after exercise. Reactive oxygen species have important signalling roles in the body so blocking all of them is not necessarily good, as evidenced by the above study.
 

burtlancast

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Re: Vitamins C And E Can Prevent Metabolic Damage In Extreme

Gabriel said:
The concept of taking high dose antioxidants before exercise or continously in a hope to prolong live or promote health is equally questionable.
.

All the contrary.

Linus Pauling is a perfect example of someone diagnosed at 60 with prostate cancer, then discovering high dose vit c and surviving an additional 35 years in excellent health.

Another perfect example is Abram Hoffer taking high dose niacine and numerous other supplements and living in picture perfect health until 92.
[BBvideo 560,340:20xe8q84]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naweamfmhUI[/BBvideo]
 

Wilfrid

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Re: Vitamins C And E Can Prevent Metabolic Damage In Extreme

burtlancast said:
Gabriel said:
The concept of taking high dose antioxidants before exercise or continously in a hope to prolong live or promote health is equally questionable.
.

All the contrary.

Linus Pauling is a perfect example of someone diagnosed at 60 with prostate cancer, then discovering high dose vit c and surviving an additional 35 years in excellent health.

Another perfect example is Abram Hoffer taking high dose niacine and numerous other supplements and living in picture perfect health until 92.
[BBvideo 560,340:2ibtt7iu]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naweamfmhUI[/BBvideo]

All the contrary.
Linus Pauling's wife is a perfect example of someone diagnosed with cancer, then discovering that high dose vit C does not save her from cancer's death.

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/ss01/avpauling.html

Quoting people who have, or had, success with high dose of whatever substance you like could be very misleading. How many people tried this route and died?
The only difference is that dead people can not make any testimonials on youtube or on TV.
So, how do you know if the ratio is clearly in favor of high dose supplementation?
I can tell that my best friend's grandmother lived in perfect health until 102 without taking any supp at all while eating bread, olive oil, meat etc....
So, does it makes her a perfect example of the 'wise' advice of not supplementing at all, or for eating bread?
 

burtlancast

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Re: Vitamins C And E Can Prevent Metabolic Damage In Extreme

P=0
 

Gabriel

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Re: Vitamins C And E Can Prevent Metabolic Damage In Extreme

Hehe. The point I was trying to make is that you can't draw a lot of meaningful conclusions from the life span of single people. You'll always find somebody who lived long on this kind of diet/supplement or died young on that kind of diet/supplement. That's the reflection of our heterogeneity (in nearly all aspects) which makes it impossible to pinpoint any disease or outcome on just one factor. The only way to solve this problem is by making controlled trials that examine groups of people. Only then you'll be able to say with an (albeit limited) degree of certainty that something changed the outcome and was not just created by background noise or chance.

And to continue our line of non-generalizable N=1, here's some more:

  • Buster Martin, 101 year old marathon runner who avoids dairy, fish, tee and water and likes to drink a pint and smoke a fag
  • Ellsworth Wareham, 98 year old vegan since half of his life, who avoids the "saturated animal fats", still alive and kicking.
  • Bernando Lapallo, 111-year old apparent-vegetarian who swears on vegetables, fruit, chocolate and olive oil and avoids red meat
  • Salustiano Sanchez-Blazquez, 112-year old, who said his daily intakes of bananas and aspirin is responsible for his longevity.

None of them stated to gulp down antioxidants and made those responsible for their longevity.

By the way, the fathers of Vitamin E, Wilfred E. Shute and Evan V. Shute ironically both died of heart disease at a relatively young age (75 and 73 respectively), despite high-dosing Vitamin E (Source).
 

burtlancast

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Re: Vitamins C And E Can Prevent Metabolic Damage In Extreme

If you guys mean to deny the health effects of high dose vitamins over long periods, by all means, good luck debunking Andrew Saul and his website, http://www.doctoryourself.com/

Dr. Andrew Saul - The War on Vitamins & Nutrition
[BBvideo 560,340:y1v6jmzj]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmTjcRf8j0I[/BBvideo]

Dr. Andrew W. Saul has 35 years' experience in natural health education. Saul, formerly Assistant Editor of the Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, is Editor-in-Chief of the Orthomolecular Medicine News Service.

He was on the faculty of the State University of New York for nine years, and taught nutrition, health science and cell biology at the college level. His peer-reviewed, non-commercial popular natural healing website is DoctorYourself.com. Saul is the author of "Doctor Yourself" and "Fire Your Doctor!". He has co-authored 7 books. Andrew can also be seen in the documentary Foodmatters.

In this highly informative interview, Dr. Saul begins talking about the media's ridiculous scare tactics about using vitamins. Andrew says we can use nutrition to cure illness and brings up evidence in published medical reports dating back from the 30's. These results are being ignored by the medical and pharmaceutical industries. Dr. Saul believes death rates would be cut down by ½ if people were eating properly and getting the required nutrients. We discuss the specifics of a proper diet, vitamin therapy and doctoring yourself. Also, we talk about medicine as a belief system. Andrew brings up the importance of activism against Codex Alimentarius.
 

jyb

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Re: Vitamins C And E Can Prevent Metabolic Damage In Extreme

To my knowledge, RP writes a lot about increased need of higher doses of some vitamins like niacinamide due to stress and imperfect environment. But on niacinamide for example, I believe his idea of high dose (50mg) is far less than Hoffer's (1g maybe).
 

Gabriel

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Re: Vitamins C And E Can Prevent Metabolic Damage In Extreme

Yeah well, posting a huge and confusing website that is full of opinion and lacking references that really support the claims, a good way to choke off a conversation.

Taking a quick look that guy supports high dose Niacin, which should be avoided according to Peat.

It's also a typical way of orthomolecular people to denounce the other person of having a "scare tactic" or being a pharmaceutical salesman. They always do that when they run out of arguments. This really shows that they're not interested in truth but just want to hammer through their faulty agenda.
 

burtlancast

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Re: Vitamins C And E Can Prevent Metabolic Damage In Extreme

Cry me a river, gabe.

:roll:
 

SAFarmer

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Re: Vitamins C And E Can Prevent Metabolic Damage In Extreme

jyb said:
To my knowledge, RP writes a lot about increased need of higher doses of some vitamins like niacinamide due to stress and imperfect environment. But on niacinamide for example, I believe his idea of high dose (50mg) is far less than Hoffer's (1g maybe).

Do you perhaps have any link or reference where Peat discuss Niacinamide dose ? I know he recommends it often, but can't recall a specific dose.
 
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