Low Toxin Studies The Vitamin A Research of Anthony Mawson PhD

[charlie]

Wow.

I'm one who actually tried the protocol a few years ago. I don't do anything halfway and neither my husband nor I noticed any changes, good or bad.

How long did you do it? Did you do the mineral support? Did you test and address your deficiencies? Sitting here and constantly refuting is not helping. It will not change the direction we are going.

 

[CastorTroy]

It's not surprising people are triggered. Their beloved foods, drugs and supps are being exposed for causing harm. I took a peak at the Ray Pet Inspired facebook group. Absolutely cultish over there. Just non stop ad hominen attacks against this forum. If someone has to attack the character or mental capacity of the person and not the ideas they lost already.

People are not triggered at all. Rather tired. Tired to the bone of seeing this forum u-turn, by being flooded with this try for the next "magical" elimination diet that other than a handful of believers, no one cares about. You guys are so tiresome. It was ok to have a lowA thread, or any thread about any topic not agreeing with Peat's ideas. That was fine, even me I don't blindly follow every single from all Peat dietary advices. But suddenly that was not enough to fulfill the attention you require, so new threads talking the same need to be open daily, for even sharing a praise of some random user on twitter. It resembles me to the Jehovah's witnesses.. "hey man, have a look at my book, you can be saved... I'll guide you how". Thanks, but no thanks.

 

[charlie]

People are not triggered at all. Rather tired. Tired to the bone of seeing this forum turn, by being flooded with this try for the next "magical" elimination diet that other than a handful of believers, no one cares about. You guys are so tiresome. It was ok to have a lowA thread, and any thread about any topic not agreeing with Peat's ideas. But suddenly that was not enough to fulfill the attention you require, so new threads need to be open daily, for even sharing a praise of some random user on twitter. It resembles me to the Jehovah's Witnesses.. "hey man, have a look at my book, you can be saved... I'll guide you how". Thanks, but no thanks.

If you are tired, you need to ask yourself why you do not have the energy to keep us with us. If you are so tired, then go somewhere else where the other low energy people will coddle you. Nothing can stop this train.

 

[charlie]

It's not surprising people are triggered. Their beloved foods, drugs and supps are being exposed for causing harm. I took a peak at the Ray Pet Inspired facebook group. Absolutely cultish over there. Just non stop ad hominen attacks against this forum. If someone has to attack the character or mental capacity of the person and not the ideas they lost already.

There is someone in the facebook groups who is coming down with diabetes after Peating for 2 years. This is not the first person who has gotten diabetes from the Ray Peat diet.

 

[S.Holmes]

How long did you do it? Did you do the mineral support? Did you test and address your deficiencies? Sitting here and constantly refuting is not helping. It will not change the direction we are going.

We did it long enough and well enough to know it wasn't for us.

 

[charlie]

We did it long enough and well enough to know it wasn't for us.

If you did not do it for at least 3 years then you did not see what it can do for you. People are seeing the big improvements starting around year 2 or year 3 with year 4 or 5 being incredible.

 

[InChristAlone]

People are not triggered at all. Rather tired. Tired to the bone of seeing this forum u-turn, by being flooded with this try for the next "magical" elimination diet that other than a handful of believers, no one cares about. You guys are so tiresome. It was ok to have a lowA thread, or any thread about any topic not agreeing with Peat's ideas. That was fine, even me I don't blindly follow every single from all Peat dietary advices. But suddenly that was not enough to fulfill the attention you require, so new threads talking the same need to be open daily, for even sharing a praise of some random user on twitter. It resembles me to the Jehovah's witnesses.. "hey man, have a look at my book, you can be saved... I'll guide you how". Thanks, but no thanks.

If no one wants to know about it why is the Grant thread the largest and most viewed thread on the forum? So much so it says you are viewing it right now. Haha!

 

[InChristAlone]

There is someone in the facebook groups who is coming down with diabetes after Peating for 2 years. This is not the first person who has gotten diabetes from the Ray Peat diet.

Yeah I think many more will have diabetes unfortunately.

 

[InChristAlone]

"Our results also show that low doses and high doses of retinoic acid may respectively cause cell cycle arrest and apoptosis of cancer cells. Also, the common cell cycle inhibiting protein, p27, and the new cell cycle regulator, Cdk5, are involved in retinoic acid’s effects. These results provide new evidence indicating that the molecular mechanisms of/in retinoic acid may control cancer cells’ fates. Since high doses of retinoic acid may lead to cytotoxicity, it is probably best utilized as a potential supplement in one’s daily diet to prevent or suppress cancer progression."
"Under normal circumstances in the body, retinoic acid does preventive work against cancer formation. After cancer formation, retinoic acid becomes an attacker to cancer cells, one that blocks their growth and division and also triggers their differentiation and death through specific pathways."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4265016/#:~:text=After%20cancer%20formation%2C%20retinoic%20acid,and%20death%20through%20specific%20pathways.

You can find hundreds of studies like this because they love to kill things. If something shows evidence to kill cancer they will try it out regardless of the side effects. And the side effects are many. Just have a look at accutane. Destroyed people's lives. On the contrary they have never shown that people with a low vit A diet (who are not protein or zinc starved) get cancer.

 

[S.Holmes]

You can find hundreds of studies like this because they love to kill things. If something shows evidence to kill cancer they will try it out regardless of the side effects. And the side effects are many. Just have a look at accutane. Destroyed people's lives. On the contrary they have never shown that people with a low vit A diet (who are not protein or zinc starved) get cancer.

I don't believe the human body is equipped with Accutane receptors, but for some odd reason we have receptors for retinol.

 

[InChristAlone]

I don't believe the human body is equipped with Accutane receptors, but for some odd reason we have receptors for retinol.

It doesn't sound like you've done much research on retinoids. 13-cis-retinoic acid= isotretinoin=Accutane. We produce this in our body from eating liver.

 

[S.Holmes]

It doesn't sound like you've done much research on retinoids. 13-cis-retinoic acid= isotretinoin=Accutane. We produce this in our body from eating liver.

If you're going to insult me you should probably get the facts straight. Accutane is SYNTHETIC. Hugely different from natural retinol found in food. I have never claimed the pharmaceutical version is good or safe.

 

[Elie]

Anthony Mawson PhD, president of Chalfont Research Institute is doing some good research on vitamin A:

Malaria, Epstein-Barr virus, vitamin A, and Burkitt’s lymphoma: Response to Joob and Wiwanitkit
"We hypothesized that an endogenous form of retinoid toxicity related to malaria infection may be the common factor linking frequent malaria, Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) and Burkitt’s lymphoma (BL). Based in part on the observation that Plasmodium falciparum selectively absorbs vitamin A from the liver,[3] the main storage organ for the vitamin, it was proposed that the merozoite-stage parasites emerging from the liver use the ingested vitamin A as a cell membrane destabilizer to enter and reproduce in the red blood cells (RBCs). It was further suggested that the subsequent release of vitamin A from the RBCs into the circulation triggers an endogenous form of hypervitaminosis A, recognized as the signs and symptoms of malaria.[4] Repeated episodes of malaria would be expected to expose affected individuals to multiple toxic doses of vitamin A, particularly fatty tissues such as the brain and lymphatics. Latent EBV is also activated by the presence of excess retinoid, which in turn activates retinoid-responsive genes, thereby enhancing expression of the molecular mechanisms of BL.

If you can save me a bit of time reading the papers, how does Mawson test and determine Vit A toxicity?

 

[InChristAlone]

If you can save me a bit of time reading the papers, how does Mawson test and determine Vit A toxicity?

He said this in another paper:
"Vitamin A toxicity is generally associated with increased levels of retinyl esters circulating with plasma lipoproteins unbound to RBP. Retinyl esters react more randomly with cell membranes than the physiologically-sequestered RBP and hence are a major form of vitamin A toxicity. Fasting retinyl ester concentrations >10% of total circulating vitamin A (retinol plus esters) are considered a biomarker for toxicity. An acute increase in the concentration of other retinoids, e.g., retinoic acid, a 40-fold more potent teratogen than retinol (Kochar, 1967), occurs after ingesting a large amount of vitamin A. Retinoic acid and other acidic retinoids are considerably more biologically active and hence more toxic than retinol.

Serum retinol concentrations (normally 1–3 μmol/L) do not reflect hepatic vitamin A concentrations over a wide range of liver values,since the secreted RBP is under homeostatic control. Similarly, serum retinol concentrations vary little despite major alterations in vitamin A intake. Case reports of hypervitaminosis A often show serum retinol concentrations within normal limits, indicating that serum retinol is not a valid measure of vitamin A status during toxicity (Olson, 2001)."

Sci-Hub | On the association between low resting heart rate and chronic aggression: Retinoid toxicity hypothesis | 10.1016/j.pnpbp.2008.10.019

 

[InChristAlone]

If you're going to insult me you should probably get the facts straight. Accutane is SYNTHETIC. Hugely different from natural retinol found in food. I have never claimed the pharmaceutical version is good or safe.

My point was not to insult you but to educate you. We produce accutane in our body from eating liver. It is the biologically active form of retinol.

 

[S.Holmes]

My point was not to insult you but to educate you. We produce accutane in our body from eating liver. It is the biologically active form of retinol.

I don't eat liver. But I have seen zero evidence to support the theory that the pharma drug and naturally occurring retinol are one and the same.

 

[InChristAlone]

I don't eat liver. But I have seen zero evidence to support the theory that the pharma drug and naturally occurring retinol are one and the same.

Well yes there is merit to the idea that taking the end point metabolite of retinol is going to mess things up and that is obvious in the literature, but unfortunately not as many studies are being done on natural sources such as liver. But I did post that study showing increases in 13-cis-retinoic acid from eating liver. And they cautioned pregnant Moms that it could cause birth defects. And as we know liver can cause hypervitaminosis A.

 

[mosaic01]

I'm just trying to provide some balance here. I've been on this forum for a long time and hate to see it fall apart. I've been to Redditt and the Bioenergetics forum and people are leaving here like rats fleeing a sinking ship. I've noticed fewer posts and less interaction, and some RIPs. No other anti-Peat posts have provoked so many, and I've posted my share. I'll be one of the last to leave unless I get banned.

The information about the low A, low toxin diet is all over the place. Threads like this one by @InChristAlone that collect info in one place are helpful to new members to digest the information.

We are just at the beginning. Many here can hopefully appreciate the work that has been put into this thread and others as an invitation to understand the topic better. You have to start somewhere.

As Mawson writes so aptly, "vitamin A in higher concentration can be pro-oxidant, mutagenic, teratogenic and cytotoxic, acting as a highly surface-active, membrane-seeking and destabilizing compound."

This statement is undeniably true and actually supported by decades of mainstream science and even by policy makers. He is just brave enough to say 1 + 1 = 2. It is the Peat community that is in denial here, and following a fringe ideology. Please realize that national and international health authorities warn people about ingesting more retinol than the RDA. This makes the "Peat diet" officially toxic and dangerous. Even those who don't agree with avoiding all sources of vitamin A have to realize this. Now, one can of course disagree with health authorities, but the Peat community has just collectively ignored all of this.

The European Union is now limiting the amount of retinol in cosmetics because some women get 100% of the RDA with cosmetics alone, and the concern is liver damage, among other things. White older women have one of the highest depression rates in the world.

Is vitamin A all there is to health and life and the universe? Obviously not. But it's the first step towards a new understanding of disease, leading people back towards a vibrant life and away from the deadly ideology that is destroying entire nations right now. It doesn't matter whether 0, 200 or 500mcg of retinol are needed for perfect health. The point is to detoxify the liver from excess retinol that lasts a lifetime, and when the liver stores are empty, one can decide how much retinol to consume.

The Peat philosophy has not done much to end the suffering and mass killing that is going on in the name of medicine and science. In the end it doesn't matter whether people are on pain meds or progesterone, aspirin and vitamin D, they are still suppressing their own toxicity. Even children and young people are now getting cancer and dementia. Genereux has written about this as well. Either you can see the dangeorus developments happening all around us, or you can't. This is a mass poisoning.

A large part of the population is now on things like multivitamins, pregnenolone, progesterone, vitamin E, aspirin, vitamin D. Sellers like iherb are flooding the US population with this stuff. It is clearly not working. It's part of the problem. Some of these chemicals have merit and can do great things, but this is about the overall developments here.

Most people who are suffering silently don't have a voice. We here have one, and thus we have a responsibility to follow the truth wherever it leads us.

 

[Elie]

He said this in another paper:
"Vitamin A toxicity is generally associated with increased levels of retinyl esters circulating with plasma lipoproteins unbound to RBP. Retinyl esters react more randomly with cell membranes than the physiologically-sequestered RBP and hence are a major form of vitamin A toxicity. Fasting retinyl ester concentrations >10% of total circulating vitamin A (retinol plus esters) are considered a biomarker for toxicity. An acute increase in the concentration of other retinoids, e.g., retinoic acid, a 40-fold more potent teratogen than retinol (Kochar, 1967), occurs after ingesting a large amount of vitamin A. Retinoic acid and other acidic retinoids are considerably more biologically active and hence more toxic than retinol.

Serum retinol concentrations (normally 1–3 μmol/L) do not reflect hepatic vitamin A concentrations over a wide range of liver values,since the secreted RBP is under homeostatic control. Similarly, serum retinol concentrations vary little despite major alterations in vitamin A intake. Case reports of hypervitaminosis A often show serum retinol concentrations within normal limits, indicating that serum retinol is not a valid measure of vitamin A status during toxicity (Olson, 2001)."

Sci-Hub | On the association between low resting heart rate and chronic aggression: Retinoid toxicity hypothesis | 10.1016/j.pnpbp.2008.10.019

Cool. helpful.
As a result of your answer I found this

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6692705/

It seems to be 7.5% retinyl ester of total serum vitamin A represents toxicity.

Background​

Minimal human data exist on liver vitamin A (VA) compared with serum biomarkers. Cutoffs of 5% and 10% total serum VA as retinyl esters (REs) suggest a VA intoxication diagnosis.

Objectives​

We compared total liver VA reserves (TLRs) with the percentage of total serum VA as REs to evaluate hypervitaminosis with the use of US adult autopsy samples. Secondary objectives evaluated serum retinol sensitivity, TLRs among lobes, and hepatic α-retinol concentrations, an α-carotene cleavage product.

Design​

Matched serum and liver samples were procured from cadavers (n = 27; mean ± SD age: 70.7 ± 14.9 y; range: 49–101 y). TLRs and α-REs were quantified by ultra-performance liquid chromatography. Pearson correlations showed liver and serum associations. Sensitivity and specificity were calculated for >5%, 7.5%, and 10% total serum VA as REs to predict TLRs and for serum retinol <0.7 and 1 μmol/L to predict deficiency.

Results​

Serum RE concentrations were correlated with TLRs (r = 0.497, P < 0.001). Nine subjects (33%) had hypervitaminosis A (≥1.0 μmol VA/g liver), 2 of whom had >7.5% total serum VA as REs; histologic indicators corroborated toxicity at 3 μmol/g liver. No subject had >10% total serum VA as REs. Serum retinol sensitivity to determine deficiency (TLRs <0.1 μmol VA/g) was 83% at 0.7 and 1 μmol/L. Hepatic α-retinol was positively correlated with age (P = 0.047), but removing an outlier nullified significance.

Conclusions​

This study evaluated serum REs as a biomarker of VA status against TLRs (gold standard), and abnormal histology suggested that 7.5% total serum VA as REs is diagnostic for toxicity at the individual level in adults. The long-term impact of VA supplements and fortificants on VA status is currently unknown. Considering the high prevalence of hypervitaminotic TLRs in this cohort, and given that many countries are adding preformed VA to processed products, population biomarkers diagnosing hypervitaminosis before toxicity are urgently needed.

 

[J.R.K]

Yeah I think many more will have diabetes unfortunately.

Have you seen evidence of vitaminosis A toxicity as either a primary or secondary driver of the hyperlipidemia that is involved with type two diabetes, or is there a role of copper toxicity and toxic bile theory in both diabetes type one and two.
Have people been able to reverse these two maladies following the protocols espoused within the diet links? I suppose since cancer metabolism is very close to diabetes metabolism the same query would be relevant for reversal of cancer in using the detoxing of vitamin A, copper and toxic bile.