The Travis Corner

[Amazoniac]

That makes sense. Speaking of acetylsucholine, if you ever try your cheese again, consider consuming some more choline, B and twelve, proteid, vit C, or perhaps even taurine along to note if those ease the dementing effect. It might not be just because of the opiates. Milk and cheese have more or less the same choline content for weight but if you use fat as parameter the story changes.

Regarding your comment on the serotonin and zombie thread, it reminded me of your perceptions of cheese, which might not have a direct effect but by congesting the person it will contribute to that effect indirectly.

Please don't mind the insistence, but I'm still curious if you worry about EM and F to the point of doing something to avoid it.

 

[Obi-wan]

@Travis, are saying that I am defeating the purpose of taking Stearic acid if I take Niacinamide and Aspirin which are FAS inhibitors and stick with Progesterone which is a stearoyl-CoA desatuase inhibitor

Replying to my own post again. I stopped taking Niacinamide and having a much stronger effect with Stearic Acid especially with aspirin and coffee!

New Stack...

 

[Obi-wan]

Sorry, was trying to cancel this post but do not know how

Starting to feel like Max Headroom...

 

[Obi-wan]

Travisord, is it true that you own a massive freezer to never have shortages of your preferred ?

How much exercise a person needs for good health in your opinion?

Did you see his post on Everything Wormwood/Artemisinin/Artemisia: this one here. Someone found his fridge[/QUOTE]

 

[Amazoniac]

Did you see his post on Everything Wormwood/Artemisinin/Artemisia: this one here. Someone found his fridge

It was a coincidence because I read his post after the one I left here.
Our guru has a nice sense of humor.

 

[squanch]

I had decided on the yerba maté because I decided to stop the green tea drinking on account of the fluorides—green tea being a habit I had originally gotten into after being sent some free as a gift in the mail. Yerba maté is another caffeinated plant, yet I doubt it's be able to compete with coffee on account of it having no anti-opiate compounds (this I assume), which I certainly believe contribute a substantial share to coffee's ability to stimulate and motivate.

I have tried to switch over from coffee to yerba mate several times over the last 2 years, mainly because of the high b1 and b6 content, always with the same effect. After a few days I will start to get sharp chest pains that keep getting worse the longer I drink the yerba mate daily. I don't have this problem with coffee at all. Have you or anyone else noticed the same?
I figured it could be from one of the other xanthines besides caffeine that is present in higher amounts in yerba mate compared to coffee. Theobromine or theophylline perhaps?

 

[Travis]

That makes sense. Speaking of acetylsucholine, if you ever try your cheese again, consider consuming some more choline, B and twelve, proteid, vit C, or perhaps even taurine along to note if those ease the dementing effect. It might not be just because of the opiates. Milk and cheese have more or less the same choline content for weight but if you use fat as parameter the story changes.

Regarding your comment on the serotonin and zombie thread, it reminded me of your perceptions of cheese, which might not have a direct effect but by congesting the person it will contribute to that effect indirectly.

Since β-casomorphin is without a doubt the most bioactive peptide in casein, and out of all milk proteins for that matter, It is the prime suspect for any opiate-like effect consequent of dairy consumption—it could even be logically argued that it's very function in milk is to reward suckling behaviour, which contributes evolutionary–teleological plausibility to its undeniable in vitro effects. It has confirmed μ-opioid binding properties and has been found to be released by enteral hydrolysis; it has even been detected in human cerebospinal fluid. It slows intestinal transit time in rats which is an undeniable property of intestinal μ-opioid receptors. It has a slightly greater affinity for the μ-opioid receptor than does similar human β-casomorphin—differing by a mere one amino acid substitution—and this peptide has been implicated in causing postpartum psychosis consequent of retrograde transport from the mammary gland during the induction of lactation. I'm fairly certain that this opiate peptide would contribute to the majority of any perceived neurological effects consequent of whole casein ingestion, far overshadowing any effects due to cheese's mass action on the labile methyl pool—a property not specific to any one particular food or food group. But I don't think I would ever classify the effects of opiates as 'dementing,' and am fairly certain that I've never used that word once in relation to β-casomorphin or cheese. Persorbed starch particles can almost certainly be considered dementing, as shown in Lafora's disease, as can perhaps even histamine and melotonin–serotonin (but mostly when used as hyperbole of sorts).

 

[Travis]

Did you see his post on Everything Wormwood/Artemisinin/Artemisia: this one here. Someone found his fridge

I was overcome by a small serotonin high yesterday, but I do think I know why (oleamide). One of these days I'm going to buy some L-tryptophan so I can get the feeling directly; not because I 'like serotonin,' but merely to get a more complete knowledge it's effects. As the direct precursor, nothing could really be better for this than L-tryptophan; even the SSRI drugs and the serotonin antagonists often have secondary interactions—i.e. cyproheptadine's antagonism of histamine receptors—so there is no better way of gauging serotonin's effects than using serotonin itself, in the absence of interference. Fernstrom's graphs show how reliable the serum tryptophan ⟶ brain serotonin conversion is, which happens in real time.

 

[Travis]

I have tried to switch over from coffee to yerba mate several times over the last 2 years, mainly because of the high b1 and b6 content, always with the same effect. After a few days I will start to get sharp chest pains that keep getting worse the longer I drink the yerba mate daily. I don't have this problem with coffee at all. Have you or anyone else noticed the same?
I figured it could be from one of the other xanthines besides caffeine that is present in higher amounts in yerba mate compared to coffee. Theobromine or theophylline perhaps?

This is interesting, but I haven't felt this yet. But my grocery store didn't have the brand I was looking for so I had to buy those yuppy little teabags stuffed with insignificant amounts; for this reason I have yet to have what I would consider 'an appreciable dose' (I could barely even taste the plant, despite putting about four mini-teabags in my French press at one time). But I think I have another another grocery store nearby that has this classic ¹⁄₂ kilogram bag, but if not I'll just have to order it from Amazon.com (perhaps also with some γ-tocopherol, L-dopa, L-histadine, and L-tryptophan—to get a more solid feel for the major neurotransmitters.)

 

[squanch]

This is interesting, but I haven't felt this yet. But my grocery store didn't have the brand I was looking for so I had to buy those yuppy little teabags stuffed with insignificant amounts; for this reason I have yet to have what I would consider 'an appreciable dose' (I could barely even taste the plant, despite putting about four mini-teabags in my French press at one time). But I think I have another another grocery store nearby that has this classic ¹⁄₂ kilogram bag, but if not I'll just have to order it from Amazon.com (perhaps also with some γ-tocopherol, L-dopa, L-histadine, and L-tryptophan—to get a more solid feel for the major neurotransmitters.)

Yes, you would use a lot more plant matter compared to something like green tea for example. Generally around 15-20 g per cup, those little teabags are a bit of a joke.
I honestly really like it, that's why I tried to make it work for me again and again. Great taste, a very calm type of energy and ~50% of your RDA of both b1 and b6 in 50 g yerba mate brewed.
But those intense, sharp chest pains I get from it scare the hell out of me.

If you want to try buying a larger bag, I would suggest using a brand of unsmoked yerba mate. Traditionally they smoke-dry the leaves, which produces quite a bit of PAH.
High levels of carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons in mate drinks. - PubMed - NCBI
Significant variation in the concentration of carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons in yerba maté samples by brand, batch, and processing m... - PubMed - NCBI

Kraus Yerba Mate is very good, the Guayaki San Mateo is also unsmoked.

 

[Amazoniac]

Since β-casomorphin is without a doubt the most bioactive peptide in casein, and out of all milk proteins for that matter, It is the prime suspect for any opiate-like effect consequent of dairy consumption—it could even be logically argued that it's very function in milk is to reward suckling behaviour, which contributes evolutionary–teleological plausibility to its undeniable in vitro effects. It has confirmed μ-opioid binding properties and has been found to be released by enteral hydrolysis; it has even been detected in human cerebospinal fluid. It slows intestinal transit time in rats which is an undeniable property of intestinal μ-opioid receptors. It has a slightly greater affinity for the μ-opioid receptor than does similar human β-casomorphin—differing by a mere one amino acid substitution—and this peptide has been implicated in causing postpartum psychosis consequent of retrograde transport from the mammary gland during the induction of lactation. I'm fairly certain that this opiate peptide would contribute to the majority of any perceived neurological effects consequent of whole casein ingestion, far overshadowing any effects due to cheese's mass action on the labile methyl pool—a property not specific to any one particular food or food group. But I don't think I would ever classify the effects of opiates as 'dementing,' and am fairly certain that I've never used that word once in relation to β-casomorphin or cheese. Persorbed starch particles can almost certainly be considered dementing, as shown in Lafora's disease, as can perhaps even histamine and melotonin–serotonin (but mostly when used as hyperbole of sorts).

The dementing part comes from the cheese and homocysteine thread.
Isn't it crazy then that most of the experiments use casein as protein source?

 

[Koveras]

As the direct precursor, nothing could really be better for this than L-tryptophan;

5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP) might be a little more direct...

 

[Wagner83]

Since β-casomorphin is without a doubt the most bioactive peptide in casein, and out of all milk proteins for that matter, It is the prime suspect for any opiate-like effect consequent of dairy consumption—it could even be logically argued that it's very function in milk is to reward suckling behaviour, which contributes evolutionary–teleological plausibility to its undeniable in vitro effects. It has confirmed μ-opioid binding properties and has been found to be released by enteral hydrolysis; it has even been detected in human cerebospinal fluid. It slows intestinal transit time in rats which is an undeniable property of intestinal μ-opioid receptors. It has a slightly greater affinity for the μ-opioid receptor than does similar human β-casomorphin—differing by a mere one amino acid substitution—and this peptide has been implicated in causing postpartum psychosis consequent of retrograde transport from the mammary gland during the induction of lactation. I'm fairly certain that this opiate peptide would contribute to the majority of any perceived neurological effects consequent of whole casein ingestion, far overshadowing any effects due to cheese's mass action on the labile methyl pool—a property not specific to any one particular food or food group. But I don't think I would ever classify the effects of opiates as 'dementing,' and am fairly certain that I've never used that word once in relation to β-casomorphin or cheese. Persorbed starch particles can almost certainly be considered dementing, as shown in Lafora's disease, as can perhaps even histamine and melotonin–serotonin (but mostly when used as hyperbole of sorts).

I posted before asking if the opiate effects from cheese could result in less coordination of movements and slow limbs, well this site suggests that yes:

Opioid use is also associated with psychomotor impairment, an overall slowing of a person’s physical movements and loss of coordination
The Effects of Opiates on the Body
​

It may sound far fetched to check a site named "drugabuse.com" for the effects of cheese but I reported those effects after consuming a good amount of feta cheese regularly for dinner and vefore knowing they were side-effects of opiate use. Symptoms were mainly seen in the first part of the day. For those who play an instrument or need dexterity with their fingers it is even easier to notice. A few mornings my limbs were definitely slow-motionesque, tying shoe laces becomes more difficult and time consuming.

 

[Fractality]

Travis, I don't know if you saw this - it's an email to forum user paymanz asking Ray about the opiates in dairy:

Me: The opioid peptide beta-casomorphine-7 from A1 milk worries me, do you have any thoughts on this since you haven't spoken fondly of opioids
Ray Peat: The experiments involved injecting it into brains. It’s a peptide derived from partial digestion of casein; good digestion should reduce it to amino acids.​

-----------------------

On a different topic, what do you think of juicing the fruits and veggies you eat? Would doing so still keep the food "raw" with all those benefits? I recall reading you have juiced in the past but I might be mistaken. Do you have a recommended juicer? I would prefer to steam/juice greens like kale if I were to foray into your vegan diet.

Thanks

 

[Nighteyes]

Travis have you looked into the potential aluminium contamination of Yerba Maté? There are quite a few sources that list aluminium as present in Yerba Maté but I have a hard time figuring out if the amounts are of concern. This one here states up to ~700 mg /kg (CAB Direct)

There is another one in portuguese that I am unable to read but the following source states that they meassured 4.43 mg/L in aqueous infusion which seems like a lot to me? (Nutrition facts and chemical composition of yerba mate: caffeine, antioxidants, minerals and other)

The form of aliminium matters I take it. I am seriously trying to restrict aluminium after a hepatitis vaccine so very interested in this.

regards

 

[Travis]

5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP) might be a little more direct...

Of course, and this is also readily available over-the-counter. I hadn't given this much thought because Fernstrom would never tire of saying things like 'tryptophan hydroxylase operates at one-half its Michaelis constant and thus works in direct proportion to brain tryptophan concentration' and such things. This is certainly a more direct precursor, but seeing as it's a bit more polar it might be expected to have a bit less brain uptake.

 

[Travis]

Travis, I don't know if you saw this - it's an email to forum user paymanz asking Ray about the opiates in dairy:

Me: The opioid peptide beta-casomorphine-7 from A1 milk worries me, do you have any thoughts on this since you haven't spoken fondly of opioids
Ray Peat: The experiments involved injecting it into brains. It’s a peptide derived from partial digestion of casein; good digestion should reduce it to amino acids.​

Thanks

It does have a proline, making it more enzymatically-resistant. If anyone doubts that peptides of this length are routinely detected after food consumption, and in all test subjects, I think they'd be forced to reconsider after reading this article:

Pennington, C. "Detection of gluten exorphin B4 and B5 in human blood by liquid chromatography-mass spectrometry/mass spectrometry." The Open Spectroscopy Journal (2007)​

On a different topic, what do you think of juicing the fruits and veggies you eat? Would doing so still keep the food "raw" with all those benefits? I recall reading you have juiced in the past but I might be mistaken. Do you have a recommended juicer? I would prefer to steam/juice greens like kale if I were to foray into your vegan diet.

I have a blender that I've used in the past and still sometimes use it to this day. I recently have blended kale and then strained it, produces a fluid having a nice emerald green color. Sometimes I add a garlic clove, cayenne pepper, and salt, but I try not to get in the habit of using too much (although Na⁺ should be safe in people also consuming potassium—the counterion—in high amounts.) Enzymes can be denatured with salt and also with heat. The conventional line of thought is that this doesn't matter one bit, as food enzymes would be destroyed in the stomach anyway on account of them being proteins. But this is not always the case, as it has been proven that bromelain can be absorbed intact with full retention of activity:

Castell, J. "Intestinal absorption of undegraded proteins in men: presence of bromelain in plasma after oral intake." American Journal of Physiology-Gastrointestinal and Liver Physiology (1997)​

But it could be argued that this is unusual for a protein, on account of bromelain being an acid-stable protease. Pepsin and trypsin are acid-stable proteases and necessarily must survive digestion (and all the while without digesting themselves, which some proteolytic enzymes will actually do). I would have to agree with that reasoning, and many proteins do appear to be hydrolyzed almost completely. However: the process of homogenation has been shown to encapsulate proteins inside of liposomes, protecting it from pepsin and facilitating absorption in the jejunum–duodenum (in the case of xanthine oxidase in homogenized milk). Mixing fat with globular proteins can create new food matrix effects which inhibit natural digestion, and cooking can further modify proteins to make them more resistant to pepsin (but also more digestible, depending on the protein and type of cooking). The most research in this area is on starch, seemingly because food industries are interesting in the structural properties of different conformations of starch—these changing greatly whether it's found in the crystalline or in the gelatinized state. There is that classic Pottenger Cat experiment, resulting in the cats being fed raw milk faring better (It could be more alarming to see a modern version using ultra-pasteurized homogenized milk, with recombinant bovine growth hormone, and the fourfold increase in IGF-1 that can induce.)

Pottenger, F. "The effect of heat-processed foods and metabolized vitamin D milk on the dentofacial structures of experimental animals." American journal of orthodontics and oral surgery (1946)​

I think blending is fine because it retains the great majority of the molecular structure of the native fruit/vegetable. Juicing is defined as the separation of the pulp, which may or may not be beneficial. (Humans actually digest the majority of cellulose and hemicellulose they consume, resulting in butryric acid:)

Holloway, W. "Digestion of certain fractions of dietary fiber in humans." The American journal of clinical nutrition (1978)​

And these are calories not normally accounted for in food nutrition tables.

 

[Travis]

Travis have you looked into the potential aluminium contamination of Yerba Maté? There are quite a few sources that list aluminium as present in Yerba Maté but I have a hard time figuring out if the amounts are of concern. This one here states up to ~700 mg /kg (CAB Direct)

There is another one in portuguese that I am unable to read but the following source states that they meassured 4.43 mg/L in aqueous infusion which seems like a lot to me? (Nutrition facts and chemical composition of yerba mate: caffeine, antioxidants, minerals and other)

The form of aliminium matters I take it. I am seriously trying to restrict aluminium after a hepatitis vaccine so very interested in this.

regards

Hunt, C. "Aluminum, boron, calcium, copper, iron, magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, phosphorus, potassium, sodium, and zinc: concentrations in common western foods and estimated daily intakes by infants; toddlers; and male and female adolescents, adults, and seniors in the United States." Journal of the American Dietetic Association (2001)​

We have a comprehensive chart in this .pdf to compare with the levels reportedly found in yerba maté, seen below (from yerbamateinfo.com...).

​

But the comprehensive article by Hunt is in different units, those being expressed in micrograms per gram (μg/g). This only varies by one decimal place from the units reported above (mg/10²·g).

mg/10²·g × 10/10 = 10·mg/10³·g = 10·mg/kg

10·mg/kg × 10⁻³/10⁻³ = 10·μg/g​

So the chart above has has units equivalent of 10·μg/g. To equate above values with those below, a division by ten or a single leftward shift of the decimal point is required. After doing this, it can now be plainly seen that yerba maté's aluminum concentration is no different than that of tea's:

​

...Four times that of wine, roughly half that of the potato (with skin), half of what's in spinach, and equal to that of both green beans and collard greens. The cake they'd analyzed naturally has Al³⁺ levels 50× higher than our yerba, very likely due to the double-acting baking powder used for its leavening (aluminum phosphate is suitable for this; being diprotic it catalyzes CO₂ formation once at a relatively low temperature, and then again at a higher temperature).

The yerba maté appears little different than many plants, and the infusion has even less. Most of the aluminum is of course discarded, and what is actually consumed has aluminum concentrations lower than cucumbers, carrots, and peppers . . . and also essentially equivalent to all dairy products tested.

 

[X3CyO]

Thanks for all the information Travis.

Im curious of your thoughts on the synergysm of tobacco and coffee.

Nicotine [Through A Peat Prism?]


I feel that the tobacco slows the body while the coffee speeds up the intestinal movement.
Muscle relaxation from nicotine being beneficial in the context of focusing on increasing mental capacity of course, and increasing the laxative capabilities of both.

 

[Nighteyes]

Hunt, C. "Aluminum, boron, calcium, copper, iron, magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, phosphorus, potassium, sodium, and zinc: concentrations in common western foods and estimated daily intakes by infants; toddlers; and male and female adolescents, adults, and seniors in the United States." Journal of the American Dietetic Association (2001)​

We have a comprehensive chart in this .pdf to compare with the levels reportedly found in yerba maté, seen below (from yerbamateinfo.com...).

View attachment 8744 ​

But the comprehensive article by Hunt is in different units, those being expressed in micrograms per gram (μg/g). This only varies by one decimal place from the units reported above (mg/10²·g).

mg/10²·g × 10/10 = 10·mg/10³·g = 10·mg/kg

10·mg/kg × 10⁻³/10⁻³ = 10·μg/g​

So the chart above has has units equivalent of 10·μg/g. To equate above values with those below, a division by ten or a single leftward shift of the decimal point is required. After doing this, it can now be plainly seen that yerba maté's aluminum concentration is no different than that of tea's:

View attachment 8745
​

...Four times that of wine, roughly half that of the potato (with skin), half of what's in spinach, and equal to that of both green beans and collard greens. The cake they'd analyzed naturally has Al³⁺ levels 50× higher than our yerba, very likely due to the double-acting baking powder used for its leavening (aluminum phosphate is suitable for this; being diprotic it catalyzes CO₂ formation once at a relatively low temperature, and then again at a higher temperature).

The yerba maté appears little different than many plants, and the infusion has even less. Most of the aluminum is of course discarded, and what is actually consumed has aluminum concentrations lower than cucumbers, carrots, and peppers . . . and also essentially equivalent to all dairy products tested.

Thank you for the comprehensive list of Foods and unit breakdown - appreciate it!