T4 50 Times Greater Than T3?

[gilson dantas]

I think we learned that T4: T3 must be physiologically in an approximate ratio of 3: 1 [or 4: 1];
It is correct?
Well I measured my t4 and t3 and gave a result that apparently leaves t4 near 50 times greater than t3!
I think I must be worried.
Someone may help me if I made the correct calculation.
Laboratory values: t4 = 5 mcg / dL and t3 = 91 ng / dL;
I converted both in nanograms and apparently the result gave about 50 times more T4 than T3.
make sense? which may be the real meaning of this result?

 

[tara]

There is some discussion of the ratio here:
Is Total T3 To Be As High As Possible?

 

[Peater Piper]

I don't think I've ever seen it measured in nanograms. Those are Total T3/T4 values, correct? Are you supplementing any thyroid?

Edit: So apparently nanograms is standard for T3 and I never paid attention. The ratio should supposedly be about 17:1.

 

[tara]

The ratio should supposedly be about 17:1.

Is this from Peat or some other source?

 

[Peater Piper]

Is this from Peat or some other source?

I should have clarified that in my post. I found that elsewhere, not from Peat. I know he likes T3 and T4 to be in the upper ranges of normal, but I've never heard any ratio mentioned other than when talking about amounts to supplement.

 

[gilson dantas]

@Peater Piper and @tara :
my results are: T4 = 5 mcg/dL and T3 = 91 ng/dL;
how should I interpret this? what is the real proportion of T4/T3 here?
by my calculations is more than 50 times T4 to T3.
am I wrong?

 

[Peater Piper]

@Peater Piper and @tara :
my results are: T4 = 5 mcg/dL and T3 = 91 ng/dL;
how should I interpret this? what is the real proportion of T4/T3 here?
by my calculations is more than 50 times T4 to T3.
am I wrong?

I believe your calculations are correct, but I wouldn't necessarily be concerned about it. Both numbers are on the lower ranges of normal, so Peat would probably want both values raised. If you're able to boost your T4, but T3 continues to lag behind, then you might have a conversion problem.

 

[DaveFoster]

Peat also recommends pulse and temperature, along with cholesterol panels as a general guide to supplementing T3 and T4. He recommends primarily T3, with some added T4 to prevent cardiac side effects of T3-only.

 

[gilson dantas]

Yes. both number are lower ranges; you are all right @Peater Piper

 

[tara]

He recommends primarily T3, with some added T4 to prevent cardiac side effects of T3-only.

I think he recommends ratios be figured out individually, but usually in the range ~ 1:2 - 1:4 (T3:T4). So not primarily T3, but to include some.

 

[DaveFoster]

I think he recommends ratios be figured out individually, but usually in the range ~ 1:2 - 1:4 (T3:T4). So not primarily T3, but to include some.

That was my intention, you're correct.

If I paraphrase correctly, in response to a question of how much T4 he recommends, "I don't recommend any dosage of T4 due to its ability to suppress the thyroid. If you're taking T3, then some T4 is appropriate."

 

[gilson dantas]

: Peat also recommends pulse and temperature, along with cholesterol panels as a general guide to supplementing T3 and T4. He recommends primarily T3, with some added T4 to prevent cardiac side effects of T3-only.

Yes @DaveFoster, I think it is perfect;
I was using NDT [one grain by day] and t3 [4 mcg twice by day] and I saw - after two months - that 1) my temperature stills low, very low, never more than 35,8 C; pulse 72; and 2) my T3 reverse become at the middle of the range, grown up. I thought I was accumulating T4. Perhaps liver; perhaps many poliinsaturated fats accumulate on tissues, I don´t know how to explain it.
So I was worry about it. And I suspended NDT and keep T3.
But nothing changes.
How to optimize the thyroid, generally speaking? [taking in account that, with sugar, I got some pounds...perhaps because thyroid still low]
[I follow Peat´s way of nutrition the best I can; and use aspirin 100 g/d; and pregnenolone 20 mg/day; and progesterone 5 mg transdermal/day]

 

[tara]

How to optimize the thyroid, generally speaking?

That's the big question many of us are trying to figure out. :)

There are probably many ingredients to a successful solution, and which are most important for each of us individually probably depends at least in part on how we got where we are, and our current state. So we probably all need a somewhat different mix of tactics.

Ingredients:

1. If there is a specific cause of the hypothyroid state, then interrupting that cause - taking the brakes off.
Some of the things I'm aware of that can tend to lower metabolism include:
chronic undereating (approximate normal calories for a mature man are ~3000 cals, more if particularly tall or physically active) [remedy: eat enough]
chronic over-exercise [remedy: stop it for a bit, and maybe try resuming in a while with monitoring of signs like temps and pulse to check that you don't overdo it]
excess PUFA [remedy: stop consuming as far as possible, and add a little highly saturated fat to meals - eg 1tsp coconut oil, maybe add a little vit-E]
excess phytoestrogens, including soy, and xenoestrogens [remedy: avoid or minimise where possible]
excess goitrogens [remedy: reduce; cook goitrogenic veges like cabbage thoroughly]
lack of sunlight [remedy: get sunlight on skin everyday if possible; supplement with red light in winter if necessary]
epigenetic inheritance from hypothyroid mother [remedy: can't change the past; depending on how well other tactics yield results, maybe cautiously supplement thyroid]
chronic or severe life stress [remedy: attempt to resolve or improve major current stresses; use release and/or relaxation methods to help remove effects of historical stress]
I suspect chronic cold conditions, maybe also chronic sleep-deprivation [remedy: keep warm; sleep at night]

2. Supplying adequate nutrition:
Calories (I'm taking youreatopia guidelines as a rough approximation. Seem roughly inline with Peat's comments)
carbs (major fuel source)
good quality protein - favour easily digested foods, with not too high a ratio of methionine, cysteine, tryptophan if poss; milk, eggs, gelatinous cuts of meat, fruit, potatoes, possibly supplementing gelatine/collagen\ (at least 80-100 g protein for most)
minerals - daily adequate amounts of calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium, and smaller amounts of the other all the necessary ones (eg zinc,copper, selenium, ...)
vitamins -

3. Attend to breathing and CO2 levels.

4. Get regular sunlight on skin for vit-D synthesis and for restoring cytochrome oxidase enzyme.

5. Get enough rest and sleep.

6. Develop and maintain a meaningful stimulating life, good close relationships, and at least some attention to gratitude/positives in one's life.

 

[gilson dantas]

There are probably many ingredients to a successful solution, and which are most important for each of us individually probably depends at least in part on how we got where we are, and our current state. So we probably all need a somewhat different mix of tactics.

I totally agree with this basic idea @tara;
I don´t if I´m wrong, but I do not see my problem in that list of ingredients that you mentioned;

I take many months up to now, avoiding completely seeds, cereals, goitrogenics, phytoestrogens, avocados; and I follow a diet in R Peat mode; minerals: I search it in eggs, liver, shrimp, cheese, meat, beef gelatin, coffee and orange juice throughout the day; tryptophan: I can not avoid the triptofan of the cheese [that every day I use, but always I associate cheese with beef gelatin]; and I eat enough calories [I got many pounds for this reason, I think];
my beef gelatin I do it at home [directly from the ox] it is very nice and I have it every day;
my life is exciting and full of meaning [and not illusion meaning: I am not religious]; I have no sleep deprivation, I take a lot of sun [we have sunshine easily here]; I do little exercise [weight for 30 seconds 3 times a week];
the only thing I use only not more than once a day is coconut oil [but I can switch to using it more often];
the problem is the "inheritance": I accumulated polyunsaturated oil in my tissues all over the life and estrogen too [for this reason I have a prostate tumor].
however, neither temperature nor the pulse changed using NDT and T3 for 1-2 months, while I gained weight and my reverse T-3 has not dropped and lactate increased to 3,5 mmol/L; and homocysteine also rose to 14;
I miss to know a theory to guide more fully my thyroid strategy; I need that the strategy connect and give meaning to each tactic.
I am unable to supplement with NDT because I fear increase T4; I am afraid to use pregnenolone at higher dose [more than 20 mg / day I use orally] because I fear its antiandrogenics effects; I do not know the reason why T3 did not work [accumulation of PUFAs in cells? excess T4? excess estrogen? ]
There are so critical questions for me;
I need a greater understanding of the physiology of R Peat, which I consider revolutionnary. I read R Peat texts every day [one by day], but they are numerous and I need to run on it; but I have the tumor now and I still needing the theory of how to optimize the thyroid.
This is my present problem [if I explain myself well].

 

[thegiantess]

I posed the original question that Tara linked--- I think when peat says the t4:t3 ratio should be 4:1 he is not talking about lab work, but is talking about supplement ratios. Like if you are supplementing those tbings that is the ratio to aim for. As far as I know he has not said what the ideal ratios are as far as lab values are concerned. I was misunderstanding. My values are similar to the OP--50:1 no hypo symptoms to speak of besides low pulse which I'm sure is due to long term endurance exercise. Point being... Take them with a grain of salt.

 

[gilson dantas]

OP?

 

[gilson dantas]

@thegiantess

I think when peat says the t4:t3 ratio should be 4:1 he is not talking about lab work, but is talking about supplement ratios.

Perhaps you´re all right.

 

[Giraffe]

OP?

OP = original post

 

[gilson dantas]

@Giraffe, thanks;

 

[tara]

my beef gelatin I do it at home [directly from the ox] it is very nice and I have it every day;

Lucky you. :)

I think when peat says the t4:t3 ratio should be 4:1 he is not talking about lab work, but is talking about supplement ratios.

+1

I need a greater understanding of the physiology of R Peat, which I consider revolutionnary. I read R Peat texts every day [one by day], but they are numerous and I need to run on it; but I have the tumor now and I still needing the theory of how to optimize the thyroid.

It's a good question, and one many of us are grappling with, one way or another.
The PUFA accumulation in tissues take quite a while to bring down. A little coconut oil with every meal and little vit-E every day are amongst the tactics I can think of for countering that one.

There are ways to tinker with the ratios of T3 and T4, but it's tricky and individual - no single prescription that will work for everyone.

enough calories [I got many pounds for this reason, I think]

Gaining pounds alone does not prove this. :)