Sun Avoidance Decreases Lifespan

[haidut]

Ray said once that avoiding the sun is very carcinogenic, which is quite contrary to what the various skin cancer experts would like you to believe.
This study seems to confirm Ray's point, at least when it comes to females.

Sunbather Paradox: Sun Woshippers Live Longer Than Those Who Avoid The Sun

"...Women who sunbathe are likely to live longer than those who avoid the sun, even though sunbathers are at an increased risk of developing skin cancer. This paradox baffles oncologists and has suggested that the war on sunshine has been unjustified. An analysis of information on 29,518 Swedish women may provide some answers."

 

[milk_lover]

Vitamin D supplementation and red light therapy should be ok for those who have limited access to the sun?

 

[zooma]

Vitamin D supplementation and red light therapy should be ok for those who have limited access to the sun?

Isn't it still highly likely that the sun is doing more than just those things? I've never really looked into it, but I'm sure Ray has often been clear that sunlight is essential, and he has never suggested that it could be replaced.

 

[haidut]

Vitamin D supplementation and red light therapy should be ok for those who have limited access to the sun?

Yes, I think so, even though they may be some benefits of UV light itself since the exposure of the retina to UV light is what seems to trigger the production of dopamine from tyrosine. Not sure if red light can do the same, but it would be great if it could.

 

[Tarmander]

Bafflement seems to be a requisite for the medical profession.

 

[paymanz]

also some sources say sunlight make vitamin D sulfate an that with supplemental vit d you cant make as much sulfate form.sulfate form is water soluble,and so even skin milk is a good source of it.

 

[DaveFoster]

Bafflement seems to be a requisite for the medical profession.

No kidding.

 

[paymanz]

exposure of the retina to UV light is what seems to trigger the production of dopamine from tyrosine

can you provide a reference for that?

 

[jyb]

can you provide a reference for that?

Also interested. I thought light was sufficient but you are saying it is UV...

 

[InChristAlone]

I get SAD during the winter when I get barely any UV exposure. I think the sun is very important for all aspects of health.

 

[misery guts]

Also interested. I thought light was sufficient but you are saying it is UV...

TIME #6: IS BIOLOGIC TIME LINKED TO DOPAMINE LEVELS? - Living an Optimized Life

I think this is saying that, although I can't really work it out :s

 

[tara]

The balance of pros and cons will presumably be different close to the ozone hole than far away from it in Sweden.

 

[m_arch]

I saw a doco "eat the sun" in which a man stares at the sun increasingly over a period of 8 months or so. The idea is that there's some kind of solar panel through your eye and you charge your body with energy and get to the point where you don't need to eat.

Anyway half way through he freaks out thinking he's damaging his eyes, so he goes to a specialist. They say 1) he has scarring in his eye and 2) his eyesight has improved

 

[paymanz]

many reports of eye damage as a result of practicing sun gazing are on pubmed.

 

[haidut]

can you provide a reference for that?

Here are some, and if you Google around you will find more. It is considered a fairly well-known process but I just don't know if there has been any isolates research with red light only.
Dr. Jack Kruse - This is an excellent talk showing you... | Facebook
Rhythmic changes in metabolism of dopamine in the chick retina: the importance of light versus biological clock - Zawilska - 2003 - Journal of Neurochemistry - Wiley Online Library
TIME #6: IS BIOLOGIC TIME LINKED TO DOPAMINE LEVELS? - Living an Optimized Life

 

[haidut]

Also interested. I thought light was sufficient but you are saying it is UV...

See above, I gave some references.

 

[paymanz]

from my own experience in life ,being in sunlight is good for my feeling, i think its good for dopamine system.but my search on UV and dopamine only shows its bad for dopamine.

in that study they have not mentioned UV rays, they used fluorescent lamps as light source.it has some UV but not all of it is uv.blue-white , so i cant be sure its uv effect.

and jack kruse , im not sure how reliable he is.

 

[paymanz]

i also found this on interesting, about uva. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24445737

exposure to UVA may mobilize NO bioactivity into the circulation

maybe that way it helps mitochondria get ride of NO?!

 

[tyw]

Yes, I think so, even though they may be some benefits of UV light itself since the exposure of the retina to UV light is what seems to trigger the production of dopamine from tyrosine. Not sure if red light can do the same, but it would be great if it could.

In rat retinas, yes, red light works (see methods, white or red light exhibited the same dopamine response) -- Circadian rhythmicity in dopamine content of mammalian retina: role of the photoreceptors - Doyle - 2002 - Journal of Neurochemistry - Wiley Online Library

This is independent of the activity of the photopigment melanopsin (white fluorescent light used, which does not extend into the UV spectrum) -- Light regulation of retinal dopamine that is independent of melanopsin phototransduction

@m_arch I am not convinced that UV light is "required" for retinal dopamine response, but I do think that UV light, being the more powerful (energy per photon) frequency of light, causes a stronger circadian entrainment effect.

Some people focused on myopia improvement, like Jake Steiner (And Then There Was Science – endmyopia.org), observe faster vision correction during periods of the year with higher UV exposure. (Assuming that the proper corrective exercises and protocols are put in place).

Hair growth in summer is also higher, and we probably can assume that UV-driven circadian entrainment is part of the process.

Sidenote: Ray Peat seems to prefer more consistent solar cycles across the year, as opposed to large variations in winter vs summer day length. Personally, I chose to be boring and live in a sub-tropical region where "winter" means 11-hour days with the sun at a 72 deg noon altitude.​

As far as getting energy from the Sun, I don't buy that for 1 second -- Take It Slow | Page 54 | Jack Kruse Optimal Health Forum

The link to the Kruse forum I just cited also explains why I cannot say that "UV light leads to Dopamine production" is true. The whole mechanism is tied to so many other circadian control systems, and all we can say is that dopamine is upregulated during the "Day portion" of the circadian cycle, and UV light is a strong entrainer of the circadian cycle (which is already an obvious point)

And yes, I am intimately familiar with Kruse's work, and I discourage almost all of his protocols (except non-native EMF avoidance and adherence to daily circadian cycles. those are good, the rest are dangerous)

All of the Quantum Mechanical explanations he rely on are false. (Read my other posts from about page 43 onward in the Kruse forum thread if you want to know the details )​

As for UV light, again, it is light which is naturally present on Earth in significant amounts, and whereby the amount of energy in each photon is the greatest among the commonly available light on this planet.

IMO, its effects have everything to do with FORCING a response from the body This is exactly akin to the injury potential observed by people like Becker and Ling.

But what do you need to respond properly to this "stressor"? Good energetics ..... if you cannot respond to a powerful signal, you will crumble under it.

UV light be powerful, and it should be approached with caution.

Artificial use of UV light is maybe warranted during long winter months where Seasonal Affective Disorder can kick in. We're talking like 5-10 mins in the morning, and that's it.

Whenever there's sunshine, it's probably a good idea to get some sun exposure. No sunblock please but don't get a sunburn either. Fair skinned people probably only require something like 20 mins of sun exposure (or 10 mins if you're Irish ) . Darker skinned people like me can probably afford more exposure.

Please do not sun gaze into anything other than the rising or setting sun when it's just about the horizon .... This is basically as much red light as possible. Do we need to sun gaze? Nope.

Do not buy into the UV light hype. I've seen much more cases of harm than good in the Kruse community over the last 2 years. Natural sunshine in instinctive doses is really the boring and effective solution.


.....

 

[jyb]

IMO, its effects have everything to do with FORCING a response from the body This is exactly akin to the injury potential observed by people like Becker and Ling.

But what do you need to respond properly to this "stressor"? Good energetics ..... if you cannot respond to a powerful signal, you will crumble under it.

UV light be powerful, and it should be approached with caution.

Artificial use of UV light is maybe warranted during long winter months where Seasonal Affective Disorder can kick in. We're talking like 5-10 mins in the morning, and that's it.

Whenever there's sunshine, it's probably a good idea to get some sun exposure. No sunblock please but don't get a sunburn either. Fair skinned people probably only require something like 20 mins of sun exposure (or 10 mins if you're Irish ) . Darker skinned people like me can probably afford more exposure.

Note that even 20mins of decent UV exposure is already quite a feat in many countries such as UK. Not much UV morning or evenings when getting to and from work. At those times of the day, UV level can be low even when it is bright outside. 20mins in direct sunlight means you took a very decent break outside and avoided the shade. I don't think most people get that.

PS. Effects from forcing a response from the body? That could be true, and similar to the effects brought about by many foods and supplements. Always have to keep that in mind when interpreting studies and symptoms, the short term vs the long term. But it makes discussion much more difficult. I think most topics discussed online (included this forum) never even consider that there could be wild inconsistencies between the two.