Americans Are Retiring Later, Dying Sicker And Sooner In-between

[dfspcc20]

Our society strongly values "independence" ...

Most notions of "independence" are myths. Like "financial independence".
We're just as dependent on others now as we always were. The difference now is that we're dependent (via money) on strangers, vs being dependent on people we know intimately through community.

Example: childcare used to be essentially free. As @Don and @GAF pointed out, kids played freely in neighborhoods. Parents weren't actively babysitting any of them, but if trouble arose, any of the parents would be willing to step in. Now it's pretty much expected that you need to pay for childcare or other structured activities.

 

[alywest]

Most notions of "independence" are myths. Like "financial independence".
We're just as dependent on others now as we always were. The difference now is that we're dependent (via money) on strangers, vs being dependent on people we know intimately through community.

Example: childcare used to be essentially free. As @Don and @GAF pointed out, kids played freely in neighborhoods. Parents weren't actively babysitting any of them, but if trouble arose, any of the parents would be willing to step in. Now it's pretty much expected that you need to pay for childcare or other structured activities.

Absolutely! Children are not a concern of the community per se anymore. We look at other people's children as "their problem," until of course they shoot up the local school. It's the underlying reason why mental health is ignored. Not my kid, not my problem. I suppose that the issue of pedophilia has caused the kids playing in the street dynamic to change so drastically, though. Now we have to account for children's whereabouts at all times, so there is a higher stress level, and fear of being burdened with accountability for someone else's child being assaulted sexually. Why has pedophilia become so rampant? What does that say about the overall health of our society?

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Like I said to you above, empathy can be destroyed. Your contempt for those not blessed with your superior temperament may be a case in point.

Or you could just decide not to get cancer. Health is a choice we make every day

 

[lampofred]

Or you could just decide not to get cancer. Health is a choice we make every day

Learned helplessness = the feeling that you don't have a choice when in fact you do, the idea that you're trapped in your circumstances and can't get out.

Just realizing that you can decide to get out of learned helplessness can get you out of learned helplessness. Conversely the opposite will keep you stuck in it.

The way you two talk makes me think that you guys are experiencing it.

And health is a choice. Peat has said multiple times the choices we make every day shape our brains and health massively. You can choose to be exploratory and optimistic and experience good health or you can choose to think you are trapped in your circumstances and a result not take any action/focus only on external factors which will further worsen your health. This aspect of health is probably why there are so many people who can eat PUFA/iron/starch all day but still be robustly healthy and happy.

 

[lampofred]

Like I said to you above, empathy can be destroyed. Your contempt for those not blessed with your superior temperament may be a case in point.

I'm not contemptuous at all, and I'm not unempathetic. Unsympathetic maybe. I think showing too much sympathy for people experiencing learned helplessness is actually very unempathetic because you are furthering their notions that they can't do anything on their own.

 

[Brother John]

I think this is very significant. I lived half my life before there was an internet and it seems most people simply lack sufficient imagination to understand how very very different it was. I don't think I would be any better if I hadn't lived through it so I'm not blaming "people today" but just human abilities in general. The information lock down was amazing, though of course I had no idea at the time. You see this with people blaming boomers for everything, but that's blaming the victim. Truth was scarce.

Good posts Don!
Thanks,
Brother John

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Learned helplessness = the feeling that you don't have a choice when in fact you do, the idea that you're trapped in your circumstances and can't get out.

Just realizing that you can decide to get out of learned helplessness can get you out of learned helplessness. Conversely the opposite will keep you stuck in it.

The way you two talk makes me think that you guys are experiencing it.

And health is a choice. Peat has said multiple times the choices we make every day shape our brains and health massively. You can choose to be exploratory and optimistic and experience good health or you can choose to think you are trapped in your circumstances and a result not take any action/focus only on external factors which will further worsen your health. This aspect of health is probably why there are so many people who can eat PUFA/iron/starch all day but still be robustly healthy and happy.

Really is that why? They have positive attitudes and choose to experience good health.
Ok well you obviously know your stuff

 

[lampofred]

Really is that why? They have positive attitudes and choose to experience good health.
Ok well you obviously know your stuff

Yeah, that's exactly why.

Less than ideal health may cause defensiveness and that defensiveness may worsen less than ideal health in a vicious circle.

But that's why we are all here, to break out of that vicious circle :)

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Yeah, that's exactly why.

Less than ideal health may cause defensiveness and that defensiveness may worsen less than ideal health in a vicious circle.

But that's why we are all here, to break out of that vicious circle :)

Thanks for the news. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna dress up as a clown and head down to the local cancer ward. I've got some lives to save, goddammit!

 

[lollipop]

Less than ideal health may cause defensiveness and that defensiveness may worsen less than ideal health in a vicious circle.

+1 I have found from my life experience that this is spot on. It actually takes a lot of energy for people to break out of this cycle. Check out the drama triangle literature. Same concept - another way of visioning it.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Interesting thoughts. I have often thought that it makes a lot of sense for women to band together to share the childcare, some sort of cooperative arrangement that involves everyone pitching in but also giving every woman some time without her children, whether to work or get some rest. Our society strongly values "independence" and we are told that our ability to stand alone without help is what we must strive for. This makes sense for the males, but as you pointed out females have different responsibilities towards children and yet we have to fit our childrearing into the structure created for men and by men. As a result there are huge discrepancies in the way children are raised between the rich and elite to the struggling single moms. Public schools are not equal and if you can't afford to live in the wealthy part of town, your child's school will most likely not be as good. If you have a strong family unit then the lesser school might not be as huge of an issue, but there are of course many children who experience awful things at home. Who's really paying attention to those kids? CPS? Ha! The whole thing is a mess. If moms participated in some sort of cooperative childrearing, there would be more of a "village" mentality that is clearly missing in society today. Church, as you pointed out hardly constitutes the village, it's more like an extension of the welfare system.

It's hardly fair to blame men for smashing the old arrangement. Any defence of of gender roles or the old arrangement has been met with screeching accusations of sexism. Since successful men have very little to gain from the fight women, the old system has been destroyed mostly by women. Camille Paglia mentioned how in her childhood neighbourhood women ran things, they were so tightly knit that they communicated in fragments of sentences. And it was the old women with the power, not the young pretty ones. Not so today.

 

[alywest]

It's hardly fair to blame men for smashing the old arrangement. Any defence of of gender roles or the old arrangement has been met with screeching accusations of sexism. Since successful men have very little to gain from the fight women, the old system has been destroyed mostly by women. Camille Paglia mentioned how in her childhood neighbourhood women ran things, they were so tightly knit that they communicated in fragments of sentences. And it was the old women with the power, not the young pretty ones. Not so today.

I suppose you're right about women doing some of this to ourselves. We live in a competitive world and now looks are part of the competition. We don't, as a whole, appreciate women who are not keeping up with the jones's (or should I say the kardashians?) in the most shallow of ways. When I asked some other moms, friends, or so I thought, if they'd want to do some sort of babysitting swap arrangement they looked at me like I was absolutely nuts. The husbands probably would have gone for it, being more pragmatic and perhaps WANTING a night free to hang out with their wives, but no, these women had to be with their children at all times and control every aspect of their lives. The relationship between man and woman has become secondary to the one between mother and child.

 

[Lucenzo01]

And it's sad because with simple strategies they could improve their health FAST. The vas majority of problems com from micronutrients and protein deficiencies, PUFAS, iron and infections. Something so simple as vitamin E and C in high doses can solve a lot of complications of the last three quite fast. Not to mention glycine, taurine, b-vitamins, coffee, a diet with simple and whole foods...I mean, it's not that hard. I am a completly different person since I discovered this forum and I was a mess. The only thing that people need to.improve is the right information, and sadly this is the hardest thing to get.

 

[lollipop]

I am a completly different person since I discovered this forum and I was a mess. The only thing that people need to.improve is the right information, and sadly this is the hardest thing to get.

+1 This forum continues to be a gold mine of help. Seriously good information.

 

[DaveFoster]

Most notions of "independence" are myths. Like "financial independence".
We're just as dependent on others now as we always were. The difference now is that we're dependent (via money) on strangers, vs being dependent on people we know intimately through community.

Example: childcare used to be essentially free. As @Don and @GAF pointed out, kids played freely in neighborhoods. Parents weren't actively babysitting any of them, but if trouble arose, any of the parents would be willing to step in. Now it's pretty much expected that you need to pay for childcare or other structured activities.

True. History repeats many aspects of itself, and philosophy shows that few people have an original thought.

People still prefer a linear, progressive view of history; ironically, that's also typical.