Still dealing with slow metabolism after restrictive eating. How to restore?

[DBCoast]

^^^ This is the best advice you can get when starting a Ray Peat inspired nutrition.

I like many others experienced a lot of weight gain(fat and water, used to be super shredded) first 7-8 months even though I had 3,500-4,000+ calorie diet prior. Was 12-13 years ultra strict keto/carni and my body just didn't know how to respond to carbs and ballooned up. And I had no thyroid issues with TSH below 1 and hormones all in optimal range. Essentially I was doing Keto + carbs for the first few months because I could not let go of fats and it was a disaster :-D

Best to limit fats for awhile, later on you can add more and more until feeling optimal. Now I am back to my old body but feeling less tense/stressed due to chronically lower cortisol/adrenaline. Best switch ever, thanks Ray !

This post gives me hope for my own situation.

 

[LadyRae]

^^^ This is the best advice you can get when starting a Ray Peat inspired nutrition.

I like many others experienced a lot of weight gain(fat and water, used to be super shredded) first 7-8 months even though I had 3,500-4,000+ calorie diet prior. Was 12-13 years ultra strict keto/carni and my body just didn't know how to respond to carbs and ballooned up. And I had no thyroid issues with TSH below 1 and hormones all in optimal range. Essentially I was doing Keto + carbs for the first few months because I could not let go of fats and it was a disaster :-D

Best to limit fats for awhile, later on you can add more and more until feeling optimal. Now I am back to my old body but feeling less tense/stressed due to chronically lower cortisol/adrenaline. Best switch ever, thanks Ray !

Hey thanks for this compliment! I've been there, too. In addition to watching fat intake, I also think smaller, more frequent meals throughout the day are helpful in the beginning to keep hunger at bay. Let the body know that calories are abundant. This also keeps stress hormones low

 

[Peatful]

This is not a time to restrict -
or worry about weight gain.
This is a time to heal.

Im not suggesting you gorge yourself or ignore your satiation cues.
But you are probably hungrier than you realize.
Eat freely.
Eat like a healthy child.



Finding easy to digest foods that don’t give you too much trouble is however good to be aware of.
And as someone suggested above-
a lot of liquids are not easy on the digestion or nourishing the way a grilled cheese sandwich or a bowl of beef stew or a chicken pot pie is.
With cheesecake for dessert.

Small more frequent balanced meals is another good suggestion.
Keeping wood on your fire.



Enjoy your food.
Enjoy this time.

 

[LadyRae]

This is not a time to restrict -
or worry about weight gain.
This is a time to heal.

Im not suggesting you gorge yourself or ignore your satiation cues.
But you are probably hungrier than you realize.
Eat freely.
Eat like a healthy child.



Finding easy to digest foods that don’t give you too much trouble is however good to be aware of.
And as someone suggested above-
a lot of liquids are not easy on the digestion or nourishing the way a grilled cheese sandwich or a bowl of beef stew or a chicken pot pie is.
With cheesecake for dessert.

Small more frequent balanced meals is another good suggestion.
Keeping wood on your fire.



Enjoy your food.
Enjoy this time.

One can heal and "keep wood on the fire" without gaining a bunch of fat. This forum is FULL of people who have packed on a lot of unnecessary weight and are miserable and discouraged from "eating freely".

 

[Jessie]

!!!!! This makes me wonder. Always after eating a low carby meal I crave something sweet. I never feel nourished unless I have something carby. If I have a carby meal, I do not get sweet cravings and feel satisfied. I trashed my metabolism with strict zero cal alt day fasting for years in a punishing effort to loose weight (after an initial drop it just gradually went up instead) I still struggle to eat three times a day. I am going to try high carb and see what gives. My weight has been steady (but obese) for almost a year now so I know my cal intake v exercise is balancing out or I would still be gaining. (I had to mention that because it's the only thing that has kept me sane and helped me ignore the 'calories in v calories out' argument and keeps me from punishing starvation diets!) I have no idea what to eat though

Whatever agrees with you is generally okay. Fruits, dried or fresh. Rice, potatoes, yams, nixtamalized corn are all good. Of course low-fat milk, not just for the carbs but also the calcium, is a very good choice. Honey, maple syrup, juice, coke could all be fine as well provided nutrition is good.

Only thing you should limit is whole grains and legumes. Their phosphate and anti-thyroid nutrients can be problematic.

Proteins can be eggs, liver, shellfish, dairy, and small amounts of meat.

My personal protein sources have been mostly eggs lately. I use to consume quite a bit of milk & cheese, but I'm in the middle of a no dairy experiment right now. And I've increased my egg consumption, not just for the missing protein, but also for the shells so I can make calcium powder. I also eat 1 oz. of beef liver daily as a multi-vitamin. Occasionally I'll have oxtail for dinner, but when I can't get it I'll just have 2 gelatin packets (12 grams of protein) with whatever I'm eating.

 

[Peatful]

One can heal and "keep wood on the fire" without gaining a bunch of fat. This forum is FULL of people who have packed on a lot of unnecessary weight and are miserable and discouraged from "eating freely".

The testimony above of popsocket who ate too much (did he?) got “fat” and is well now.
Would he have gotten well without becoming “fat”?

Temporary fat is ok.
What is wrong with that?
Is it even truly fat?
A lot of it is water weight.
Endotoxin too- hence why digestion is paramount during healing.

I know this forum is full of people who restricted with certain diets.
Restricting and dieting damages people.
Eating and enjoying your food brings health if you’re in touch with yourself.

Orthorexia is real.
It’s often the biggest obstacle for people to trust their body and be free.

 

[LadyRae]

The testimony above of popsocket who ate too much (did he?) got “fat” and is well now.
Would he have gotten well without becoming “fat”?

Temporary fat is ok.
What is wrong with that?
Is it even truly fat?
A lot of it is water weight.
Endotoxin too- hence why digestion is paramount during healing.

I know this forum is full of people who restricted with certain diets.
Restricting and dieting damages people.
Eating and enjoying your food brings health if you’re in touch with yourself.

Orthorexia is real.
It’s often the biggest obstacle for people to trust their body and be free.

Gaining 20, 30, 40 lbs is not all water and it's not healthy, period. Anorexics that regain weight too fast almost always revert back to restriction, as the rapid weight gain is too stressful.

Anyone who wants to go all in - have at it. Enjoy eating all you want and have fun buying a new wardrobe. It's not for me.

Just my 2 cents!

 

[Peatful]

Gaining 20, 30, 40 lbs is not all water and it's not healthy, period. Anorexics that regain weight too fast almost always revert back to restriction, as the rapid weight gain is too stressful.

Anyone who wants to go all in - have at it. Enjoy eating all you want and have fun buying a new wardrobe. It's not for me.

Just my 2 cents!

We are not discussing a 40 lb weight gain nor an anorexic with the OP right?
Don’t understand the extremism.



I do think the MSE offers good general insights that we can apply here.
Not perfect.
But good food for thought.



Especially on the healing side.

“…how best to re-feed malnourished people, saying: “Enough food must be supplied to allow tissues destroyed during starvation to be rebuilt … our experiments have shown that in an adult man no appreciable rehabilitation can take place on a diet of 2,000 calories a day. The proper level is more like 4,000 daily for some months. The character of the rehabilitation diet is important also, but unless calories are abundant, then extra proteins, vitamins, and minerals are of little value.”


I briefly (and I do mean briefly) scanned these two articles.

The Minnesota Starvation Experiment

Science doesn't support the calories-in, calories-out hypothesis. If you are still trapped into believing that model, it's time to learn more!

heartlandweightloss.com

The Minnesota Starvation Experiment & Eating Disorders

The Minnesota Starvation Experiment I was amazed to see how many similarities these participants experienced regarding eating disorders.

followtheintuition.com

Best to all.

 

[LadyRae]

@Peatful

 

[FullLife]

After loosing weight via keto and restriction I was in the same situation. I could only eat 800 calories a day without gaining weight. Then I learned about ice baths. After around 3 weeks of 30 minute ice baths (4x a week) my body did a 180 degree change and I could eat normally- around 2400 calories. The power of ice baths left a real impression on me.

 

[PopSocket]

The testimony above of popsocket who ate too much (did he?) got “fat” and is well now.
Would he have gotten well without becoming “fat”?

Temporary fat is ok.
What is wrong with that?
Is it even truly fat?
A lot of it is water weight.
Endotoxin too- hence why digestion is paramount during healing.

I know this forum is full of people who restricted with certain diets.
Restricting and dieting damages people.
Eating and enjoying your food brings health if you’re in touch with yourself.

Orthorexia is real.
It’s often the biggest obstacle for people to trust their body and be free.

Mixing fats and carbs is usually a bad idea if looks are important. And bear in mind all my steroids were quite good because of relatively high calorie nutrition while on keto/carni around the 4,000 mark while stress in life was relatively low for many years. Can't imagine what this mix would do to a person who was on a much lower calorie diet and sex hormones are low while stress hormones are high.

Getting a bit fat to recover makes sense and indeed can be beneficial but the short/mid term "results" of such a diet can make many quit before the body adjusts which takes a lot of time. I had the luxury to be with a woman who knew me well and saw all my experiments throughout the years. so she knew this won't be a lasting state. Yet, it can be very depressing for many people especially women. The idea of restricting fats to probably 5-10% for the first month or two is to stick to the plan and transition more smoothly.

IF I am to introduce someone who was on restrictive diet to a high calorie/metabolic nutrition I would never advise them to eat too freely and combine fats and carbs. I can only imagine in just a couple of months when the person becomes 13-15kg heavier how they would feel about my suggestion. They would probably never speak to me again. It takes a very strong conviction, desire to experiment and trust in the process to continue when one looks in the mirror and does not like what one sees, and most people are focused on the short term.

After loosing weight via keto and restriction I was in the same situation. I could only eat 800 calories a day without gaining weight. Then I learned about ice baths. After around 3 weeks of 30 minute ice baths (4x a week) my body did a 180 degree change and I could eat normally- around 2400 calories. The power of ice baths left a real impression on me.

Have never tried ice baths for more than 2 days as it seems stressful. But Red Light/IR Therapy on thyroid/thymus/testis /and whole body/ seems to be also very helpful too in my experience. Several of my friends though swear by cold baths. They seem in a very good health.

 

[Peatful]

It takes a very strong conviction, desire to experiment and trust in the process to continue when one looks in the mirror and does not like what one sees

I agree
Lived it
Worth it
Better for it- in more ways than just my health

 

[VonKeister]

Anything that lowers blood sugar will cause weight gain in the short term and diabetes, wasting and cancer in the long term. Things such as darkness, cold temperatures, mental stress, excessive exercising, slow bowels, high fat or high protein meals, suboptimal carbohydrate intake, environmental and food estrogens, radio waves (Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, cellular networks, microwave ovens, etc) and a lack of positive mental stimulation are all things that lower blood sugar

 

[Peatful]

Anything that lowers blood sugar will cause weight gain in the short term and diabetes, wasting and cancer in the long term. Things such as darkness, cold temperatures, mental stress, excessive exercising, slow bowels, high fat or high protein meals, suboptimal carbohydrate intake, environmental and food estrogens, radio waves (Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, cellular networks, microwave ovens, etc) and a lack of positive mental stimulation are all things that lower blood sugar

@shanny

 

[shanny]

Anything that lowers blood sugar will cause weight gain in the short term and diabetes, wasting and cancer in the long term. Things such as darkness, cold temperatures, mental stress, excessive exercising, slow bowels, high fat or high protein meals, suboptimal carbohydrate intake, environmental and food estrogens, radio waves (Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, cellular networks, microwave ovens, etc) and a lack of positive mental stimulation are all things that lower blood sugar

This is gold. I would add to that list excessive caffeine intake. Recently digging myself out of that mess

 

[joaquin]

Some will attack my approach
But i would love to see you heal

Being male and young
You certainly need more kcal

Are you familiar with The Minnesota Starvation Experiment?
It’s fascinating
Those lean men at maintenance coming into the experiment were eating 3200 kcal a day
Starved at 1350 iirc

You are still in a semi restricted state
Healing may look like it happening
But it’s pseudo recovery

Slowly up your calories
Try to get 4000
Also if possible i would do 40/30/30 or 50/20/20 c/f/p
This helps blood sugar regulation and less stress on your adrenals which in turn helps your thyroid

Will you gain weight?
Of course
You are in a healing process
Then the weight will come off pretty effortlessly
But you will feel so good again
The weight gain is tertiary

With your age you should heal pretty quickly
But healing takes energy
And your current diet isn’t supplying enough
Hence no restoration as noted in your title

I like what you're saying here. I would love to be able to consume 4000 cal/day without become obese. What foods would be in a typical daily plan like this if the ratios are 40/30/30 or 50/20/20 c/f/p?

 

[Peatful]

I like what you're saying here. I would love to be able to consume 4000 cal/day without become obese. What foods would be in a typical daily plan like this if the ratios are 40/30/30 or 50/20/20 c/f/p?

Hi-

Im not sure of your age.
Weight.
Past dietary history
Or what you eat now etc

But i do believe in the theory of healing your metabolism via feeding your thyroid and moving out of a dis regulated stressed state.

I believe a pillar of this is blood sugar management and easy to digest balanced mini meals throughout the day

Many factors play into it all
Especially our dietary history

Im sorry that’s cryptic
It’s a general principle
But
There are several factors that are paramount

Overall
I have found that a majority of people come from a restrictive diet / over exercise history
And have never re fed enough to be truly healed

It’s a scary, uncomfortable process
Not for the faint of heart
But totally worth it
Not just to eat more
But to find wholeness and an ease and freedom around food

 

[joaquin]

@Peatful
I'm 52, right now I weigh 176.
I have a long history of orthorexia. I've done low carb, gluten free, carnivore and keto off and on, in addition to taking a dump truck of vitamins and supplements. The problem is that I get temporary results by doing those diets but then I'm back to not getting enough sleep and not being warm. I can't seem to get my temp above 97.3.
I first came upon peat maybe 15 or 16 years ago but didn't really get into it too much.
One confounding matter in this is that I am moderately electrohypersensitive since being pressured into a handful of vaccines around 2006-2007.
When I've been on the standard american diet, I've had elevated cortisol. I have thin hair from it. I've probably had mitochondrial dysfunction since childhood. The only time I've been able to see any improvement is when I have done intermittent fasting on a high fat mostly carnivore diet.
But that gets boring. We all know that. And my sense of pleasure just vanishes. I know there is a time and place for fasting and carnivore, but its not a 365 day a year protocol.
I want to be able to feel somewhat like I did in my late teens and early 20 where, even though I had some issues, my metabolism was much higher and I slept better and just had a sense of wonder -- instead of this incessant anhedonia.

 

[Peatful]

@Peatful
I'm 52, right now I weigh 176.
I have a long history of orthorexia. I've done low carb, gluten free, carnivore and keto off and on, in addition to taking a dump truck of vitamins and supplements. The problem is that I get temporary results by doing those diets but then I'm back to not getting enough sleep and not being warm. I can't seem to get my temp above 97.3.
I first came upon peat maybe 15 or 16 years ago but didn't really get into it too much.
One confounding matter in this is that I am moderately electrohypersensitive since being pressured into a handful of vaccines around 2006-2007.
When I've been on the standard american diet, I've had elevated cortisol. I have thin hair from it. I've probably had mitochondrial dysfunction since childhood. The only time I've been able to see any improvement is when I have done intermittent fasting on a high fat mostly carnivore diet.
But that gets boring. We all know that. And my sense of pleasure just vanishes. I know there is a time and place for fasting and carnivore, but its not a 365 day a year protocol.
I want to be able to feel somewhat like I did in my late teens and early 20 where, even though I had some issues, my metabolism was much higher and I slept better and just had a sense of wonder -- instead of this incessant anhedonia.

What is your set point weight do you think?

What is your current body composition?

How long a hx of orthorexia?
(Ie: Mine was from 14 years old to almost 43. So almost 30 years)

How long did you IF with the carnivore diet?

What is your current level of activity?

What is your primary source of stress do you believe?

Are you working in or out of the house?

What is your relationship to food currently?
To your body?


Please only publicly respond to your comfort level.

Addendum:
What kcal are you eating now? Composed of what macros?

 

[joaquin]

@Peatful
What is your set point weight do you think?
Probably around 140 as I'm 5'10" with small to medium frame. I weighed 125 when I was 19 but I was too scrawny.

What is your current body composition?
I would suspect that I'm about 15 to 20 % fat. But I've not done the calipers test in ages.

How long a hx of orthorexia?
I can't say for sure. I know there was a time as a child I was picky, very picky eater. Then in my early 20s I was turned on to ginseng and then started learning all about various vitamins and supplements. I didn't really start being restrictive in my eating until around 28. I was somewhat restrictive for a couple of years and then went back to SAD.

How long did you IF with the carnivore diet?
If you mean how long each day, then it would vary from a minimum of 16 hours up to 21 hours per day. But if you mean how long I did IF, well that was for probably 3 years.

What is your current level of activity?
I walk 5 days a week on average. I would like to lift 10 or 20 pound weights for the testosterone boost but when i do this, especially during the winter, it throws my sympathetic-parasympathetic off and I become stressed and lose sleep. I don't know how all that works but it must have to do with my very unusual self. Maybe the vagus nerve is out of whack with me.

What is your primary source of stress do you believe?
Prolonged period of where I get at most 5 to 7 hours of sleep, and that's only when I take melatonin, mag threonate and phenergan.

Are you working in or out of the house?
I work from home.

What is your relationship to food currently?
I seem to do well on red meat with one or two servings of oatmeal with coconut oil and butter each day. I have coffee each morning and usually 2 to 4 oranges a day, or sometimes apples. I was eating sourdough bread at night before bed and that seemed to be helping my sleep especially with butter and himalayan sea salt. Also every other day I eat a raw carrot.

To your body?
I can actually get up and down off of the floor and have much better mobility than I did ten years ago. Btw, ten years ago I had fibromyalgia. After having vaccine derived fibro for five years, I was able to be cured from it by living in an environment far from cell towers and laptop cords and by cutting out processed foods.