Slippery Slope SUPPLEMENTS

[Validus]

Don't you think the moral of the story of this entire thread is that everything can be bad for us in certain contexts because the poison is ALWAYS in the dose? Everything, even healthful, necessary and required will poison us if consumption is "too high".

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Don't you think the moral of the story of this entire thread is that everything can be bad for us in certain contexts because the poison is ALWAYS in the dose? Everything, even healthful, necessary and required will poison us if consumption is "too high".

I don’t think that is the point. I think the point is fixing one imbalance seems to lead to another and that trying to guess what is going on within us and attempting to fix it with a supplement is like a dog chasing it’s tail, with never ending issues and really getting nowhere. I have read a few comments here and there on the internet about this forum, how ridiculous we are for relying on so many supplements and everybody is still sick and complaining about something. We need to learn to give our bodies the right foods and let it sort things out.

 

[Validus]

I don’t think that is the point. I think the point is fixing one imbalance seems to lead to another and that trying to guess what is going on within us and attempting to fix it with a supplement is like a dog chasing it’s tail, with never ending issues and really getting nowhere. I have read a few comments here and there on the internet about this forum, how ridiculous we are for relying on so many supplements and everybody is still sick and complaining about something. We need to learn to give our bodies the right foods and let it sort things out.

That's fair.

 

[Dave Clark]

I personally can't agree with any sentiment that supplements are useless. I have resolved many issues with some top tier nutrients. I think it is personalized. I have used supplements that I didn't get a good effect from, but others that completely eliminated some long standing problems. Supplements, just like food, have different effects on different people. The idea is to experiment and see what gives you the best bang for your buck, and that goes for food as well as supplements.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I personally can't agree with any sentiment that supplements are useless. I have resolved many issues with some top tier nutrients. I think it is personalized. I have used supplements that I didn't get a good effect from, but others that completely eliminated some long standing problems. Supplements, just like food, have different effects on different people. The idea is to experiment and see what gives you the best bang for your buck, and that goes for food as well as supplements.

I did not say supplements can’t be helpful for an issue, until the issue resolved, but people are living on them daily and feeling good, until they aren’t, with new issues, and they never connect the dots that maybe their supplements are cause their new issues. The title of this thread is “slippery slope supplements”, not “supplements are bad”.

 

[Dave Clark]

I did not say supplements can’t be helpful for an issue, until the issue resolved, but people are living on them daily and feeling good, until they aren’t, with new issues, and they never connect the dots that maybe their supplements are cause their new issues. The title of this thread is “slippery slope supplements”, not “supplements are bad”.

Perhaps. But if a supplement 'resolves' an issue, what makes you think it won't come back the moment you stop the supplement? And, as far as the title, who gets to determine what supplement is a slippery slope supplement? Maybe for you one is, maybe for me it is a God send. It is not that simple, take supplements until you feel good, and then rely on food to keep that status quo. For some, that may work, and others, not so much. I could give many examples, but I am not commenting to get into a debate, it is just my opinion, which is worthless to some people, lol, and valuable to others !

 

[Validus]

I believe both points have merit. Many supplements would never be found in nature, since many are extracts or much higher doses than we would ever normally encounter in our diet. It then seems logical that it puts our physiology at a disadvantage as far as homeostasis is concerned; we may then induce a deficiency in another arena.

On the other side of the coin, we're inadvertently exposed to so many compounds that are incredibly difficult to avoid due to our "modern" lifestyle. Compounds in the air, water, food, clothing etc. They may increase our need for liver and kidney support to name a few.

Also, because of modern agriculture, our soil is so deplete of minerals and nutrients, it seems difficult to believe we can be optimal and get everything we need from food alone.

It's all very complex and akin to hitting a moving target that's not only moving, but also changing shapes & sizes in the process as well.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Perhaps. But if a supplement 'resolves' an issue, what makes you think it won't come back the moment you stop the supplement? And, as far as the title, who gets to determine what supplement is a slippery slope supplement? Maybe for you one is, maybe for me it is a God send. It is not that simple, take supplements until you feel good, and then rely on food to keep that status quo. For some, that may work, and others, not so much. I could give many examples, but I am not commenting to get into a debate, it is just my opinion, which is worthless to some people, lol, and valuable to others !

I think this is why RP says to “take until the issue resolves”, because otherwise it then becomes too much. Food is always best, but some need those slippery slope shortcuts. I can only speak from experience and trust what Ray Peat says is right, and pass on good information that I stumble upon. Each person is different and with so many smart and well intended people still struggling with their health, I think it is good advice to maybe consider their supplements. There is nothing to debate about, because too much of a good thing can be bad.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

View: https://twitter.com/richardursomd/status/1592865428635848705?t=ijRFjbKtxVRxjzzW2u4LvQ&s=19

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

It's all very complex and akin to hitting a moving target that's not only moving, but also changing shapes & sizes in the process as well.

Your statement above is exactly it. Suppliments are like playing dominos, you get them all set up, and they look good and they fall perfectly until one domino is just not exactly right and the rest from then in is a failure. It works until it doesn’t.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“Earl Mindell says this about MSM and stress:

"While stress is often considered either a mental or psychological problem, it has very real physical effects. You’ve heard people attribute stress-related symptoms to "nerves”, and there’s no doubt stress usually affects parts of the body that are related to the nervous system, particularly through the digestive organs. As we learned earlier, use of MSM can be beneficial in many digestive disorders.

"I have a fish story to tell you. One stress study quoted in the literature for MSM involves 50 goldfish in a large aquarium. Half of them were removed and placed in a small aquarium (designated A) and the other 25 were placed in an identical aquarium (designated B). The fish in A were fed regular goldfish food and those in aquarium B received the same food treated with MSM. The fish in both aquariums were then stressed equally by manipulation of their confinement, movement, and temperature range. By day then, 11 fish died in aquarium A but only one went belly-up in the MSM-treated tank.”‘

MSM - A Breakthrough Nutrient

MSM may help relieve symptoms of musculoskeletal pain and inflammation, including rheumatoid arthritis and osteoarthritis,

www.health4youonline.com

 

[AlaskaJono]

I think this is why RP says to “take until the issue resolves”, because otherwise it then becomes too much. Food is always best, but some need those slippery slope shortcuts. I can only speak from experience and trust what Ray Peat says is right, and pass on good information that I stumble upon. Each person is different and with so many smart and well intended people still struggling with their health, I think it is good advice to maybe consider their supplements. There is nothing to debate about, because too much of a good thing can be bad.

Quotes from Paracelsus - Renaissance man (1500's) who blended chemistry with medicine: 'All things are poisons, for there is nothing without poisonous qualities. It is only the dose which makes a thing poison.'

I was introduced to this man and quote from a friend, Rick, 30+ years ago, who was a fellow TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) student and already a practicing Naturopath for 10 years in Oregon. We had an' ongoing conversation' all through the 90's regarding whether a 'medical' substance that helps a 'condition' can be omitted forever once a new physiological pattern is established (or not). In other words - approximately- does the body get addicted to the substance, and not 'learn' how to produce it by itself?

In TCM once a 'healthier' balance of the individual happens due to balance of Yin/Yang, Heat/Cold, etc., then no more herbal or other intervention is required. This is part and parcel of the 'philosophy' or medical paradigm of TCM. (Of course if someone is very ill long term, or near death and recovers then longer term herbal etc remedies/tonics are prescribed.)

In Western medical paradigm one is looking for the magic bullet chemical which then can be suppled by the Pharma/medical physician, and the usual requirement is to take it until death. So when looking at very specific nutraceuticals, as we do mucho mas on this forum, it is usually in the paradigm of the western medical physiological system. What Ray is trying to impart to us imo is that the system must be understood as a whole. For me Ray's genuis is that he has a truly Wholistic understanding within the biochemical cellular framework within the health of the Organism, according 'modern' functional medicine. And that he is in TUNE with himself and his own particular metabolism. This modern system is understood by me to be a system not based on wholeness or balance, as the term 'homeostasis' is not understood, explored, of discussed with any particular focus of importance in medical school. As a reductionist study, medical science has us humans reduced to a complex set of biochemical equations. Excuse me.
Basically, in my opinion, it is used as a very slight nod of the head to the concepts of Health and Balance. We are (so much) more than the sum of the parts.

Note: My wife mentioned a quote last week when reading Ray Peat transcripts, that Ray stated he never had a blood test. Interesting.

I will leave you with another quote by the old Paracelsus.

“Medicine is not only a science; it is also an art. It does not consist of compounding pills and plasters; it deals with the very processes of life, which must be understood before they may be guided.”

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I

Quotes from Paracelsus - Renaissance man (1500's) who blended chemistry with medicine: 'All things are poisons, for there is nothing without poisonous qualities. It is only the dose which makes a thing poison.'

I was introduced to this man and quote from a friend, Rick, 30+ years ago, who was a fellow TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) student and already a practicing Naturopath for 10 years in Oregon. We had an' ongoing conversation' all through the 90's regarding whether a 'medical' substance that helps a 'condition' can be omitted forever once a new physiological pattern is established (or not). In other words - approximately- does the body get addicted to the substance, and not 'learn' how to produce it by itself?

In TCM once a 'healthier' balance of the individual happens due to balance of Yin/Yang, Heat/Cold, etc., then no more herbal or other intervention is required. This is part and parcel of the 'philosophy' or medical paradigm of TCM. (Of course if someone is very ill long term, or near death and recovers then longer term herbal etc remedies/tonics are prescribed.)

In Western medical paradigm one is looking for the magic bullet chemical which then can be suppled by the Pharma/medical physician, and the usual requirement is to take it until death. So when looking at very specific nutraceuticals, as we do mucho mas on this forum, it is usually in the paradigm of the western medical physiological system. What Ray is trying to impart to us imo is that the system must be understood as a whole. For me Ray's genuis is that he has a truly Wholistic understanding within the biochemical cellular framework within the health of the Organism, according 'modern' functional medicine. And that he is in TUNE with himself and his own particular metabolism. This modern system is understood by me to be a system not based on wholeness or balance, as the term 'homeostasis' is not understood, explored, of discussed with any particular focus of importance in medical school. As a reductionist study, medical science has us humans reduced to a complex set of biochemical equations. Excuse me.
Basically, in my opinion, it is used as a very slight nod of the head to the concepts of Health and Balance. We are (so much) more than the sum of the parts.

Note: My wife mentioned a quote last week when reading Ray Peat transcripts, that Ray stated he never had a blood test. Interesting.

I will leave you with another quote by the old Paracelsus.

“Medicine is not only a science; it is also an art. It does not consist of compounding pills and plasters; it deals with the very processes of life, which must be understood before they may be guided.”

You wrote an artful intelligent bit here. So what conclusion do you come to, does our bodies stop doing it’s job because the supplements are doing it for them? Interesting that so many people on the forum get blood tests too, while Ray has never had one. I have never had a blood test either. I am not sure I would trust one, and acting upon an inaccurate one could really screw a person up. It is refreshing hearing from a natural point of view. I am so tired of hearing about supplements, antibiotics and meds. I don’t know how anybody can be “in-tune” with their bodies with so many additions, really muddying the whole mess some more in my opinion.

 

[AlaskaJono]

I

You wrote an artful intelligent bit here. So what conclusion do you come to, does our bodies stop doing it’s job because the supplements are doing it for them? Interesting that so many people on the forum get blood tests too, while Ray has never had one. I have never had a blood test either. I am not sure I would trust one, and acting upon an inaccurate one could really screw a person up. It is refreshing hearing from a natural point of view. I am so tired of hearing about supplements, antibiotics and meds. I don’t know how anybody can be “in-tune” with their bodies with so many additions, really muddying the whole mess some more in my opinion.

Thank you Rinse..... Your last sentence says a lot to me. After my first decade of seeing clients, no really probably 7 years, I came to the temporary conclusion that people are in a balance/non-balance with everything they are doing in their life. All encompassing, emotional, sexual, psychic, supplements, stress levels etc.. . In a sense, we people are balanced NOW in our' imbalanced' life. But how in tune one is with actual body processes is totally another question. Usually people think they are in tune. Key word, Think. But this is just their thought, their desire. "Of course I am in tune with myself, I do yoga, pilates, ray peat stuff, drink OJ/coffee, eat liver weekly, daily. I meditated for 20 years. etc." ....This all doesn't mean anything, as in the proof is in the pudding.

So what conclusion do you come to, does our bodies stop doing it’s job because the supplements are doing it for them?

It isn't exactly that our bodies stop doing something (although sometimes it might be just that) but that our whole being is involved in the process of life, and the relationship to the environment, our World. The entire "Context" as Ray would say, is of Vital Importance. As far as dietary and supplemental nutraceutical and hormonal intervention, one must know why one is doing this change, and what outcome one is working towards, and experiment and modify until one gets the desired results. Then Stop the supplements, Cease and Desist! If people don't change attitudes and behaviours then why would the new Testosterone balance stay the same for example. We must change and grow (or die sometimes) besides growing older and more woody. !!! Attitude is vital for a healthy life, but without self-observation and a depth of earnestness and honesty, we cannot become more fully human in depth of our being, in emotional and psychological maturity, and in wisdom.

In some 'old school' TCM lineages, and in Tibetan medicine for example, people may be told (in a medical or family 'emergency' situation) to wear different colours than normal, or buy new clothes, etc, so that possibly the 'spirit' world couldn't connect with the old form of the client, as he wouldn't be discovered because of the new clothes and different colours! As if one becomes such a different character, the old character's nemesis doesn't identify with him/her, and moves on. Problem solved! But the person changed in the process..... let that sink in.

This is a more shamanic style, but is totally relevant. Like when you change so much that your brother or sister can't 'get you' with the same old tricks or ploy because you are not irritated by it anymore. Done! Over. Nothing there. Getting on with your life, and you changed. Full stop.

I do think that supplements have their place, and that many issues possibly can be solved with the addition of the appropriate ones. Dosage is also important. But fixing everything that is 'wrong' with us using supplements would take $100s @month, $1000s a year, and not solve most or any of the issues, imo. Also, because of the world we live in, poor food quality and poor food choices, high stress and sympathetic innervation, most people have poor gut health, and probably poor liver health, so it is very difficult to fix with a pill of any kind if digestion/absorption is crap (Pun intended), intestinal integrity poor, and also difficult to assess from afar without proper intake, history, pulse/tongue, skin condition, smell, etc.. Also as stated above people's psycho/emotional state is not a smooth or groovy as people think it is. So there is always a relative BIG part of the equation missing, unless addressed in some way. Also in the TCM diagnosis aspect we have concepts of Root and Branch. Root cause of disease, and the various symptoms showing up at branches. So the practitioner treats accordingly to address both of these. A very useful concept, even applies to this forum and Ray's work.

I will leave it at that....... Hope it helps, but this is a very good and important dialogue Rinse. You started it! Cheers.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Thank you Rinse..... Your last sentence says a lot to me. After my first decade of seeing clients, no really probably 7 years, I came to the temporary conclusion that people are in a balance/non-balance with everything they are doing in their life. All encompassing, emotional, sexual, psychic, supplements, stress levels etc.. . In a sense, we people are balanced NOW in our' imbalanced' life. But how in tune one is with actual body processes is totally another question. Usually people think they are in tune. Key word, Think. But this is just their thought, their desire. "Of course I am in tune with myself, I do yoga, pilates, ray peat stuff, drink OJ/coffee, eat liver weekly, daily. I meditated for 20 years. etc." ....This all doesn't mean anything, as in the proof is in the pudding.

So what conclusion do you come to, does our bodies stop doing it’s job because the supplements are doing it for them?

It isn't exactly that our bodies stop doing something (although sometimes it might be just that) but that our whole being is involved in the process of life, and the relationship to the environment, our World. The entire "Context" as Ray would say, is of Vital Importance. As far as dietary and supplemental nutraceutical and hormonal intervention, one must know why one is doing this change, and what outcome one is working towards, and experiment and modify until one gets the desired results. Then Stop the supplements, Cease and Desist! If people don't change attitudes and behaviours then why would the new Testosterone balance stay the same for example. We must change and grow (or die sometimes) besides growing older and more woody. !!! Attitude is vital for a healthy life, but without self-observation and a depth of earnestness and honesty, we cannot become more fully human in depth of our being, in emotional and psychological maturity, and in wisdom.

In some 'old school' TCM lineages, and in Tibetan medicine for example, people may be told (in a medical or family 'emergency' situation) to wear different colours than normal, or buy new clothes, etc, so that possibly the 'spirit' world couldn't connect with the old form of the client, as he wouldn't be discovered because of the new clothes and different colours! As if one becomes such a different character, the old character's nemesis doesn't identify with him/her, and moves on. Problem solved! But the person changed in the process..... let that sink in.

This is a more shamanic style, but is totally relevant. Like when you change so much that your brother or sister can't 'get you' with the same old tricks or ploy because you are not irritated by it anymore. Done! Over. Nothing there. Getting on with your life, and you changed. Full stop.

I do think that supplements have their place, and that many issues possibly can be solved with the addition of the appropriate ones. Dosage is also important. But fixing everything that is 'wrong' with us using supplements would take $100s @month, $1000s a year, and not solve most or any of the issues, imo. Also, because of the world we live in, poor food quality and poor food choices, high stress and sympathetic innervation, most people have poor gut health, and probably poor liver health, so it is very difficult to fix with a pill of any kind if digestion/absorption is crap (Pun intended), intestinal integrity poor, and also difficult to assess from afar without proper intake, history, pulse/tongue, skin condition, smell, etc.. Also as stated above people's psycho/emotional state is not a smooth or groovy as people think it is. So there is always a relative BIG part of the equation missing, unless addressed in some way. Also in the TCM diagnosis aspect we have concepts of Root and Branch. Root cause of disease, and the various symptoms showing up at branches. So the practitioner treats accordingly to address both of these. A very useful concept, even applies to this forum and Ray's work.

I will leave it at that....... Hope it helps, but this is a very good and important dialogue Rinse. You started it! Cheers.

The part about changing the clothes was really interesting. I am gonna keep thinking about that one.

“As far as dietary and supplemental nutraceutical and hormonal intervention, one must know why one is doing this change, and what outcome one is working towards, and experiment and modify until one gets the desired results. Then Stop the supplements, Cease and Desist! If people don't change attitudes and behaviours then why would the new Testosterone balance stay the same for example.

This that you said above is something too. It reminds me of a car needing gas and a person puts gas in, but they don’t stop when the tank is full and it spills over into a new problem.

Your “root and branch” analogy reminds me of Ray Peat’s, analogy of having chicken pocks and thinking that cutting off the pocks is gonna solve the problem. Many years ago I was having irregular heart beats and the doctor had me wear a heart monitor for a couple of days. The doctor confirmed I had some concerns and prescribed me heart pills, which he said I would have to take for the rest of my life, to prevent the possibility of a heart attack. Knowing how those pills were going to cause more problems, I decided to not treat the branch, but to treat the root instead, and came to the conclusions it was my adrenal glands causing the heart irregularities. I never took the heart pills, and gave my adrenals some attention and TLC and 15+ years later I have never had that heart problem again.

I can’t believe all the money I spent on suppliments, which did work at the time, but then it became too much, and caused new problems. I never made the connection and spent decades being like a dog chasing it’s tail. When it comes to suppliments, less is more.

 

[AlaskaJono]

The part about changing the clothes was really interesting. I am gonna keep thinking about that one.

“As far as dietary and supplemental nutraceutical and hormonal intervention, one must know why one is doing this change, and what outcome one is working towards, and experiment and modify until one gets the desired results. Then Stop the supplements, Cease and Desist! If people don't change attitudes and behaviours then why would the new Testosterone balance stay the same for example.

This that you said above is something too. It reminds me of a car needing gas and a person puts gas in, but they don’t stop when the tank is full and it spills over into a new problem.

Your “root and branch” analogy reminds me of Ray Peat’s, analogy of having chicken pocks and thinking that cutting off the pocks is gonna solve the problem. Many years ago I was having irregular heart beats and the doctor had me wear a heart monitor for a couple of days. The doctor confirmed I had some concerns and prescribed me heart pills, which he said I would have to take for the rest of my life, to prevent the possibility of a heart attack. Knowing how those pills were going to cause more problems, I decided to not treat the branch, but to treat the root instead, and came to the conclusions it was my adrenal glands causing the heart irregularities. I never took the heart pills, and gave my adrenals some attention and TLC and 15+ years later I have never had that heart problem again.

I can’t believe all the money I spent on suppliments, which did work at the time, but then it became too much, and caused new problems. I never made the connection and spent decades being like a dog chasing it’s tail. When it comes to suppliments, less is more.

Great heart story Rinse. And Good on ya for stopping that nonsense early. Regarding changing ones wardrobe to 'avoid' evil spirits, ie - change ones appearance and colour scheme and energy, so that certain symptoms and situations change for the better, I always remember one of the chapters from an obscure book in the public library I read as a teen: A tale of a schizophrenic (institutionalized) woman with 13 distinct personalities. One of them had diabetes and she needed medication when this was the presenting personality. Another had some other 'disease'. etc. And when she shifted into another personality the disease and symptoms disappeared. So then.... we can certainly change a little bit - just not go Schizo - and leave the condition behind. Not saying it is always the case, but.... great story of documented disease (diabetes) coming and going!

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Great heart story Rinse. And Good on ya for stopping that nonsense early. Regarding changing ones wardrobe to 'avoid' evil spirits, ie - change ones appearance and colour scheme and energy, so that certain symptoms and situations change for the better, I always remember one of the chapters from an obscure book in the public library I read as a teen: A tale of a schizophrenic (institutionalized) woman with 13 distinct personalities. One of them had diabetes and she needed medication when this was the presenting personality. Another had some other 'disease'. etc. And when she shifted into another personality the disease and symptoms disappeared. So then.... we can certainly change a little bit - just not go Schizo - and leave the condition behind. Not saying it is always the case, but.... great story of documented disease (diabetes) coming and going!

Whaaat?!! Wow! That is bizarre! I know how we perceive our health is everything. I wrenched my back yesterday and could barely walk last night, but I kept telling everyone and myself that I am a fast healer and tried to laugh it off as much as I could, about how ridiculous I looked trying to walk. I was still pretty bad this morning, but told myself that lying in bed was only going to make my head feel depressed and make my pain worse, so I muscled through it today, got out and accomplished my errands and the more I stayed in charge of the situation the less pain I felt. I still have trouble tonight, but my attitude has made a big difference. Last night I was ready to head to the hospital, tonight I feel empowered. Mind over matter as they say.

 

[Advocate2021]

Whaaat?!! Wow! That is bizarre! I know how we perceive our health is everything. I wrenched my back yesterday and could barely walk last night, but I kept telling everyone and myself that I am a fast healer and tried to laugh it off as much as I could, about how ridiculous I looked trying to walk. I was still pretty bad this morning, but told myself that lying in bed was only going to make my head feel depressed and make my pain worse, so I muscled through it today, got out and accomplished my errands and the more I stayed in charge of the situation the less pain I felt. I still have trouble tonight, but my attitude has made a big difference. Last night I was ready to head to the hospital, tonight I feel empowered. Mind over matter as they say.

Hope your back feeling better.

While I love this concept of functioning as humans were meant in the Garden of Eden with out interference and know that supplements can for sure be very problematic, I also feel that in this world turned upside down that we now live in where we are constantly exposed to EMF, nano, estrogen, glyphosate, pollution, shedding from mrna kill shots, etc., one almost needs to be superhuman to be healthy. When those shots rolled out spring of 2021 and i was living on a ranch where the people became indoctrinated and I was around them, i went through 4 or 5 months of bleeding every two weeks and horrid cycles like ive never had in my life. i even asked Dr. Peat what to do and he said extra vitamin K would be protective from shedding. So i added vitamin K and the issue resolved thankfully. I also added methylene blue the last year and a half and have noticed a boost in my durability and resistance. ive probably been in at least 100 different gyms since this whole bioweapon crap emerged; so sure ive been exposed to this crap constantly; yet i havent really been sick with anything in at least five years other than what might have been some remnant of the bioweopon in February which was a mere cold that i worked out through and continued on with life. Georgi suggested aspirin, niacinamide and methylene blue combo and worked like a charm and ive recommended this for others who also recovered almost immediately.

I also think many of us, including dr. peat, need vitamin D supplementation at least in the winter in most places where it just is not possible to get it from sunlight. So, my point is that we live in a world which is far from the Garden of Eden that perhaps The Divine meant for us; and sometimes it takes some enhancement above and beyond foraging to be OK here unfortunately. Plus the contamination of the entire planet has affected even the most pristinely grown food and pastured animals. Not to mention, many here like me, were effectively poisoned by Big Medical and Big Pharma directly before we had this information - I feel it has been an ongoing process now for 22 years recovering from severe poisoning in my childhood through thirties. Not to mention the vaccines I received with the authority of my ignorant parents throughout my childhood, not to mention the allergy shots, steroids, antibiotics and ultimately twelve years of estrogen due to their ignorance and medical indoctrination and some of the most prestigious medical establishments in this nation- Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, Columbia Presbyterian, Vanderbilt Medical Center, etc. I was taken to all of them and they all slammed me with estrogen through my teens and whole twenties.

So yeah, i think i may have needed a little help beyond hunting and foraging unfortunately; but I would love to get to the point where i could go back to that- perhaps if i establish a community off grid somewhere based upon these philosophies as i would love to do. But then again, it seems there is no cranny left on the earth impervious to contamination - from what i am finding. The true answer is to transform the health paradigm on this planet and hope that the damage can eventually dissipate and be reversed. but this last whammy of nano and mrna injected into a good part of the population and progeny is going to be tough to eradicate and those who manage to reproduce will continue to pass the mutation; plus its in our supply chains and, as an insanely sensitive person, I have had a new level of contamination to battle against ever since these things rolled out and feel i ve had to increase my ammunition to be able to live and have the energy to fight the dark forces as an attorney and advocate- which believe me has consumed every cell of my being these last few years.

Thank God for the Gym- i feel i must train to be a Military General on the frontlines and have gotten physically stronger than ever before these last few years which is necessary in this battlefield of a world both spiritually and physically. We must be superhumans. That is my conclusion.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Hope your back feeling better.

While I love this concept of functioning as humans were meant in the Garden of Eden with out interference and know that supplements can for sure be very problematic, I also feel that in this world turned upside down that we now live in where we are constantly exposed to EMF, nano, estrogen, glyphosate, pollution, shedding from mrna kill shots, etc., one almost needs to be superhuman to be healthy. When those shots rolled out spring of 2021 and i was living on a ranch where the people became indoctrinated and I was around them, i went through 4 or 5 months of bleeding every two weeks and horrid cycles like ive never had in my life. i even asked Dr. Peat what to do and he said extra vitamin K would be protective from shedding. So i added vitamin K and the issue resolved thankfully. I also added methylene blue the last year and a half and have noticed a boost in my durability and resistance. ive probably been in at least 100 different gyms since this whole bioweapon crap emerged; so sure ive been exposed to this crap constantly; yet i havent really been sick with anything in at least five years other than what might have been some remnant of the bioweopon in February which was a mere cold that i worked out through and continued on with life. Georgi suggested aspirin, niacinamide and methylene blue combo and worked like a charm and ive recommended this for others who also recovered almost immediately.

I also think many of us, including dr. peat, need vitamin D supplementation at least in the winter in most places where it just is not possible to get it from sunlight. So, my point is that we live in a world which is far from the Garden of Eden that perhaps The Divine meant for us; and sometimes it takes some enhancement above and beyond foraging to be OK here unfortunately. Plus the contamination of the entire planet has affected even the most pristinely grown food and pastured animals. Not to mention, many here like me, were effectively poisoned by Big Medical and Big Pharma directly before we had this information - I feel it has been an ongoing process now for 22 years recovering from severe poisoning in my childhood through thirties. Not to mention the vaccines I received with the authority of my ignorant parents throughout my childhood, not to mention the allergy shots, steroids, antibiotics and ultimately twelve years of estrogen due to their ignorance and medical indoctrination and some of the most prestigious medical establishments in this nation- Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, Columbia Presbyterian, Vanderbilt Medical Center, etc. I was taken to all of them and they all slammed me with estrogen through my teens and whole twenties.

So yeah, i think i may have needed a little help beyond hunting and foraging unfortunately; but I would love to get to the point where i could go back to that- perhaps if i establish a community off grid somewhere based upon these philosophies as i would love to do. But then again, it seems there is no cranny left on the earth impervious to contamination - from what i am finding. The true answer is to transform the health paradigm on this planet and hope that the damage can eventually dissipate and be reversed. but this last whammy of nano and mrna injected into a good part of the population and progeny is going to be tough to eradicate and those who manage to reproduce will continue to pass the mutation; plus its in our supply chains and, as an insanely sensitive person, I have had a new level of contamination to battle against ever since these things rolled out and feel i ve had to increase my ammunition to be able to live and have the energy to fight the dark forces as an attorney and advocate- which believe me has consumed every cell of my being these last few years.

Thank God for the Gym- i feel i must train to be a Military General on the frontlines and have gotten physically stronger than ever before these last few years which is necessary in this battlefield of a world both spiritually and physically. We must be superhumans. That is my conclusion.

I can only speak from my experience. Suppliments have been helpful taking them for a day or few for a particular issue, but me living on “good” vitamins and herbs created more problems for me. I guess there are two ways to get the job done. I tried the vitamin D on my skin, being very discerning in which one to choose, and even ran it past Ray Peat, which he wasn’t seeming very fond of either, and there was no better. I think Ray Peat recommends the vitamin D, but will not recommend a particular one for the obvious reasons I am pointing out in this thread. Funny the vitamin D I ran past him endorsed Ray Peat’s work which irritated him more and he said, just very fact they said he endorses it means I should stay far away from it. It had MCT oil in it, which he is not a fan of. Again I am not saying people can’t find good health in suppliments, I am saying they are a “slippery slope” and for those who keep chasing their tail, they might want to consider that their supplements may be the problem. I am really glad that I haven’t been to the gym in 30 years. I know people enjoy it, but I feel like a rat on a wheel and would rather be moving in other ways. We are all different and it is interesting to see us all going up the same mountain on a different path.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I can only speak from my experience. Suppliments have been helpful taking them for a day or few for a particular issue, but me living on “good” vitamins and herbs created more problems for me. I guess there are two ways to get the job done. I tried the vitamin D on my skin, being very discerning in which one to choose, and even ran it past Ray Peat, which he wasn’t seeming very fond of either, and there was no better. I think Ray Peat recommends the vitamin D, but will not recommend a particular one for the obvious reasons I am pointing out in this thread. Funny the vitamin D I ran past him endorsed Ray Peat’s work which irritated him more and he said, just very fact they said he endorses it means I should stay far away from it. It had MCT oil in it, which he is not a fan of. Again I am not saying people can’t find good health in suppliments, I am saying they are a “slippery slope” and for those who keep chasing their tail, they might want to consider that their supplements may be the problem. I am really glad that I haven’t been to the gym in 30 years. I know people enjoy it, but I feel like a rat on a wheel and would rather be moving in other ways. We are all different and it is interesting to see us all going up the same mountain on a different path. Thank you girl for asking, because yes I am feeling like my back is almost back to normal!