Reducing Serotonin And Increasing CO2 With Negative Ions

[Mauritio]

Does anybody know about Peat talking about negtive ions increasing Co2 and therefore deceasing serotonin?

I have a device that creates negative ions and after i used it today i felt super sleepy ,pulse was up and had to take a nap and was kind of focused on reading stuff .

If this is true it could be a very productive efficient tool to keep CO2 in the body up and serotonin low. since a negative ion generator could be made from something as easy as a hair drier for example.


I found very little on ray peat and negative ions. here are 2 pages that did say at least something . this a quote from the second articl e(doesnt refer to peat though) :

“Research by Dr. Leslie Hawkins at the University of Surrey, UK, showed that levels of the hormone serotonin in the blood, brain and other tissues seemed to be reduced by negative ions. Serotonin is a substance that plays a part in brain chemistry, and imbalances in it lead to depression and other mental disturbances. Dr. Hawkins suggested that air rich in negative ions has a stimulating effect while too many positive ions, and thus high levels of serotonin in the body, are depressing. This may explain why ionisers help in cases of irritability and stress.”

What's a Good Air Ionizer to Buy? - Ray Peat Q&A
The Sadder Side of Serotonin - 180 Degree Health

 

[Pointless]

I think this has been tried without noticing much. There's a lot of questions about how effective and durable ionizers are, though. Which one did you use?

@Dan Wich

 

[Mauritio]

My roomate actually made it . hes kind of a nerd when it comes to building stuff like that , but dont ask me how.

Thats also an interesting study where they fought depression successfully by negative ion treatment.
https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/acm.1995.1.87

 

[KDub]

Several of Ray's articles mention negative electrical charge, but paint it as being part of the inflammatory process.

"This increased affinity is similar to the process that causes a gel to swell in the presence of alkalinity, and it is related to the process called electroosmosis, in which water moves toward a higher negative charge. Intense excitation or stress increases the cell's electrically negative charges, and causes it to become more alkaline and to swell. Swelling and alkalinity cause the cell to begin the synthesis of DNA, in preparation for cell division. Mitogens and carcinogens, including estrogen, cause cells to become alkaline and to swell, and substances that block the cell's alkalinization (such as the diuretics acetazolamide and amiloride) inhibit cell division. Prolonged alkaline stress alone can cause malignant transformation of kidney cells (Oberleithner, et al., 1991)." -http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/water.shtml

"When a nerve is stimulated and responds, a wave of negative electrical charge passes
through it; the electrical field accompanies a structural change in the cytoplasm of the
nerve; similar changes occur in other types of cell. Stimulation of a nerve with negative
(cathodal) polarity causes swelling, stimulation with the opposite polarity causes the
opposite behavior; when nerve cells are inhibited, they shrink (Tasaki and Byrne,
1980; Tasaki, et al., 1988; Tasaki, 1999).

Swelling, an increase of the water content of an area of tissue, is a general feature of
inflammation (Weiss, et al., 1951), whether it's in a lump caused by a bee sting, a
bruise, or hives, or a cancer. Besides the instantaneous uptake of water described by
Tasaki, there are increases that continue because of metabolic and chemical changes in
the irritated cell. Tasaki has used gels of synthetic polymers to demonstrate that an
electrical field can cause these changes, without the need for the "chemical osmotic"
changes that are customarily assumed to account for the swelling changes caused by
stress (Tasaki, 2002). When the pH of a protein gel becomes more alkaline, it swells.
The electrical activation of a nerve causes a quick shift towards internal alkalinity
(Endres, et al., 1986), followed by a sudden increase in lactic acid production. Although
increased lactic acid causes acidity of an irritated or inflamed region, the conversion of
pyruvic acid to lactic acid causes the interior of the stressed cell to become more
alkaline, causing it to swell. This is the same process that causes the familiar swelling of
tired muscles.

If blood vessels swell, the delivery of oxygen may be restricted, and hypoxia causes
more intense swelling, because more lactic acid is produced, and less oxidized. This
swelling pressure resembles an increase of osmolarity. For over 100 years, it has been
customary to treat shock with "isotonic" fluids, which are in balance with well
oxygenated tissues, with approximately 290 milliosmoles per liter, but this usually
causes edema, swelling, and weight gain. Stressed tissues have been found to be in
balance with fluids of much higher osmolarity, for example 372 mOsm/L (Tranum-
Jensen, et al., 1981), and sometimes much higher.

Apart from its acidity, lactic acid acts as an excitatory signal. A very slight increase
above the normal amount of lactic acid in the body fluids excites sensitive cells, and the
amounts reached in inflamed tissues and in cancers will excite even stable cells such as
myelinated nerves (Uchida and Murao, 1975)." - Cancer: Disorder and Energy

 

[Mauritio]

Several of Ray's articles mention negative electrical charge, but paint it as being part of the inflammatory process.

"This increased affinity is similar to the process that causes a gel to swell in the presence of alkalinity, and it is related to the process called electroosmosis, in which water moves toward a higher negative charge. Intense excitation or stress increases the cell's electrically negative charges, and causes it to become more alkaline and to swell. Swelling and alkalinity cause the cell to begin the synthesis of DNA, in preparation for cell division. Mitogens and carcinogens, including estrogen, cause cells to become alkaline and to swell, and substances that block the cell's alkalinization (such as the diuretics acetazolamide and amiloride) inhibit cell division. Prolonged alkaline stress alone can cause malignant transformation of kidney cells (Oberleithner, et al., 1991)." -http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/water.shtml

"When a nerve is stimulated and responds, a wave of negative electrical charge passes
through it; the electrical field accompanies a structural change in the cytoplasm of the
nerve; similar changes occur in other types of cell. Stimulation of a nerve with negative
(cathodal) polarity causes swelling, stimulation with the opposite polarity causes the
opposite behavior; when nerve cells are inhibited, they shrink (Tasaki and Byrne,
1980; Tasaki, et al., 1988; Tasaki, 1999).

Swelling, an increase of the water content of an area of tissue, is a general feature of
inflammation (Weiss, et al., 1951), whether it's in a lump caused by a bee sting, a
bruise, or hives, or a cancer. Besides the instantaneous uptake of water described by
Tasaki, there are increases that continue because of metabolic and chemical changes in
the irritated cell. Tasaki has used gels of synthetic polymers to demonstrate that an
electrical field can cause these changes, without the need for the "chemical osmotic"
changes that are customarily assumed to account for the swelling changes caused by
stress (Tasaki, 2002). When the pH of a protein gel becomes more alkaline, it swells.
The electrical activation of a nerve causes a quick shift towards internal alkalinity
(Endres, et al., 1986), followed by a sudden increase in lactic acid production. Although
increased lactic acid causes acidity of an irritated or inflamed region, the conversion of
pyruvic acid to lactic acid causes the interior of the stressed cell to become more
alkaline, causing it to swell. This is the same process that causes the familiar swelling of
tired muscles.

If blood vessels swell, the delivery of oxygen may be restricted, and hypoxia causes
more intense swelling, because more lactic acid is produced, and less oxidized. This
swelling pressure resembles an increase of osmolarity. For over 100 years, it has been
customary to treat shock with "isotonic" fluids, which are in balance with well
oxygenated tissues, with approximately 290 milliosmoles per liter, but this usually
causes edema, swelling, and weight gain. Stressed tissues have been found to be in
balance with fluids of much higher osmolarity, for example 372 mOsm/L (Tranum-
Jensen, et al., 1981), and sometimes much higher.

Apart from its acidity, lactic acid acts as an excitatory signal. A very slight increase
above the normal amount of lactic acid in the body fluids excites sensitive cells, and the
amounts reached in inflamed tissues and in cancers will excite even stable cells such as
myelinated nerves (Uchida and Murao, 1975)." - Cancer: Disorder and Energy

I am not quite sure what to make of that. these quotes could suggest that negative ions increase inflammation ?! though you could make an argument for them beeing anti-inflammatory , since they increase C02 , which decreases inflammation in the body...

 

[Mauritio]

the inverse seems to be true as well meaning that high positive ion-concentration in the ar increases serotonin !! this would be major since we all spend hours and hours every day in front of laptops , tv's ,smartphones etc...which all produce positive ions!
this also explains why some people get headaches when the weather changes or a storm is coming... before a storm there is a lot of positive ions in the air --> increased serotonin--> increased headaches


"Later, researchers measured the impact of atmospheric electricity on human subjects by monitoring daily changes in urine excretion of neurohormones in samples gathered from 1,000 volunteers exposed to positive ions generated 1 to 2 days prior to the arrival of a storm front. By measuring the changing levels of neurohormones in the 24-hour urinary output of the subjects during normal and weather-stress days, the researchers compiled a profile of changes in levels of serotonin, 5-HIAA (5-hydroxyindole acetic acid, a serotonin metabolite), adrenaline, noradrenaline, histamine and thyroxine."

https://nutritionreview.org/2013/04/positive-health-benefits-negative-ions/
(especially read the part at he bottom about positive ions)

 

[Nokoni]

If you are not grounded it may not have much effect. As the ion cloud increases around you it begins to repel the incoming ions. This happens almost instantly. You can test this directly by putting your face close to the source without being grounded, to detect the ion "wind". You won't feel much, but then touch a ground and you will definitely feel the breeze. Let go and it stops. And the ion "pressure" can't really build up to overcome the ionic repulsion because the ions in the air just go to ground through any ground in the room. Light switches, for example, become blackened around the edges from carrying the dust with them to the ground. (So does any wall near to the device.) So grounding allows the ions to continuously flow into the lungs.

I've used such a device in my bedroom while sleeping grounded. Did it for probably a year or so. Didn't notice any beneficial effects so eventually set it aside because of the effects on the walls and plugs and such, and also because of the great increase in static discharge from touching anything grounded.

 

[lampofred]

I don't remember what interview but I remember him saying negative ions are found near water and that they are good for you.

 

[Dan W]

I think this has been tried without noticing much. There's a lot of questions about how effective and durable ionizers are, though. Which one did you use?

@Dan Wich

Yeah, here's my old log of trying ionizers. I still use one, though I don't really know if it's having any effect.

I don't remember what interview but I remember him saying negative ions are found near water and that they are good for you.

I was somewhat surprised to learn Peat's been using an ionizer. Although he mentioned that in response to a question about air purifiers, not specifically for negative ions.

 

[yerrag]

I remember an interview where he talks about negative ions coming from sea breeze. He says that serotonin can be deactivated in the lungs, thru the action of superoxide dismustase, which, if I remember right, is enabled by negative ions. See if you can search for that interview.

 

[Mauritio]

I remember an interview where he talks about negative ions coming from sea breeze. He says that serotonin can be deactivated in the lungs, thru the action of superoxide dismustase, which, if I remember right, is enabled by negative ions. See if you can search for that interview.

i also remembe reading negative ions somehow correlate with superoxid dismutase in the air ... gonna try to find that info !

 

[Mauritio]

Yeah, here's my old log of trying ionizers. I still use one, though I don't really know if it's having any effect.
thanks im gonna give this a read and save this thread for later.

I was somewhat surprised to learn Peat's been using an ionizer. Although he mentioned that in response to a question about air purifiers, not specifically for negative ions.

he doesnt seem to talk about it nearly as much as about co2 ,serotonin, estrogen etc... which indicates that he doesnt know much about it or just doesnt think its really important.
it does make sense though when you think about how we are constantly seeing ourselfes confronted with positive ions through monitors and so on ...

 

[yerrag]

i also remembe reading negative ions somehow correlate with superoxid dismutase in the air ... gonna try to find that info !

I hope you can find more information aside from what Ray Peat said. I had tried looking but can't find much success.

 

[Mauritio]

I hope you can find more information aside from what Ray Peat said. I had tried looking but can't find much success.

i dont know if its related . but yesterday i wore a pendant that sends out about 3000 negative ions and at the end of the day i looked super puffy in my face , more wrinkles ,felt kind of depressed when not talking to someone and had more hair loss than usual ... i also slept horribly and had high pulse for a long time before falling asleep ...
now this could mean two things : either its just a "detox" /too much of a good think all at one ,since i wore the thing the whole day or this pendant is bs
. i read about it having too much radiation. not much to really harm one but still twice the amount one would normally get...

so i didnt wear it today and starting to feel and look better ...
is anyone aware of information concerning negative /over use side effects of negative ions ?

 

[yerrag]

i dont know if its related . but yesterday i wore a pendant that sends out about 3000 negative ions and at the end of the day i looked super puffy in my face , more wrinkles ,felt kind of depressed when not talking to someone and had more hair loss than usual ... i also slept horribly and had high pulse for a long time before falling asleep ...
now this could mean two things : either its just a "detox" /too much of a good think all at one ,since i wore the thing the whole day or this pendant is bs
. i read about it having too much radiation. not much to really harm one but still twice the amount one would normally get...

so i didnt wear it today and starting to feel and look better ...
is anyone aware of information concerning negative /over use side effects of negative ions ?

I thought it strange you would be wearing it. Not because it is a pendant, but because it's like your're wearing an ionizer. But an ionizer is not meant to be worn. So perhaps at a distance, the ionizer would benefit you as it's not near you much less touching you. Besides, won't the negative ions so close to your body disrupt the electrical pulses in your body and distort them, thus affecting your basic biology?

 

[Mauritio]

I thought it strange you would be wearing it. Not because it is a pendant, but because it's like your're wearing an ionizer. But an ionizer is not meant to be worn. So perhaps at a distance, the ionizer would benefit you as it's not near you much less touching you. Besides, won't the negative ions so close to your body disrupt the electrical pulses in your body and distort them, thus affecting your basic biology?

I kind of thought the same especially since i only wear the pendant at the same spot. I tried to move it around a bit ,which helped a little. Still it felt as if it was too much of good thing . So i think ill just put it on my desk in my sleeping room. I doubt that its power is strong enough to really have an effect on the air quality of that room , but who knows... Maybe ill try to war it 2 hours /day in the future...

 

[S.Seneff]

i also remembe reading negative ions somehow correlate with superoxid dismutase in the air ... gonna try to find that info !

https://www.researchgate.net/public...oxide_on_the_activity_of_superoxide_dismutase

 

[S.Seneff]

This study examined the effects of negative air ion exposure on the human cardiovascular and endocrine systems during rest and during the recovery period following moderate endurance exercise. Ten healthy adult men were studied in the presence (8,000-10,000 cm-3) or absence (200-400 cm-3) of negative air ions (25 degrees C, 50% humidity) after 1 h of exercise. The level of exercise was adjusted to represent a 50-60% load compared with the subjects' maximal oxygen uptake, which was determined using a bicycle ergometer in an unmodified environment (22-23 degrees C, 30-35% humidity, 200-400 negative air ions.cm-3). The diastolic blood pressure (DBP) values during the recovery period were significantly lower in the presence of negative ions than in their absence. The plasma levels of serotonin (5-HT) and dopamine (DA) were significantly lower in the presence of negative ions than in their absence. These results demonstrated that exposure to negative air ions produced a slow recovery of DBP and decreases in the levels of 5-HT and DA in the recovery period after moderate endurance exercise. 5-HT is thought to have contributed to the slow recovery of DBP.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...l_responses_after_moderate_endurance_exercise

 

[David PS]

Full text: FEBS Press

 

[SOMO]

Those air ionizers don't work apparently, I remember seeing a program where they tested them in a lab and they weren't able to produce significant levels of ions (they did produce some.)

But they DID produce Ozone, which is a free radical.

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