Depression May Be Caused By Estrogen In Females And Cortisol In Males

[Peater Piper]

Of course coffee's just another tool, but if a person tolerates it and they enjoy it, then I would include it. Decaf shouldn't stress glycogen storage, nor push the metabolism. Considering decaf has been shown to improve both intestinal permeability and NAFLD, it's a very useful tool. Admittedly, some people do struggle with decaf as well (though many don't). I'm not sure why. Possibly too much remaining caffeine, or cheap beans that were covered in mycotoxins and pesticides, or residues from from chemicals used in the decaffeination process. Swiss water processed coffee from a quality brand may avoid the intolerance.

The more options we have, the better, as more complicated situations will require a multi-pronged approach, tailored to what each person's body can tolerate. Plus, liver issues can be present without hypothyroidism, although hypothyroidism would probably follow eventually with remedying it.

 

[dbh25]

Of course coffee's just another tool, but if a person tolerates it and they enjoy it, then I would include it. Decaf shouldn't stress glycogen storage, nor push the metabolism. Considering decaf has been shown to improve both intestinal permeability and NAFLD, it's a very useful tool. Admittedly, some people do struggle with decaf as well (though many don't). I'm not sure why. Possibly too much remaining caffeine, or cheap beans that were covered in mycotoxins and pesticides, or residues from from chemicals used in the decaffeination process. Swiss water processed coffee from a quality brand may avoid the intolerance.

Any suggestions on a good replacement to break a coffee addiction? I'm one of those people who has issues with decaf also. (I've tried organic & Swiss water processed decaf) I've also tried green tea, black tea, herbal teas & teecino but revert to coffee again. (I'm not a soda or Red Bull drinker) I suspect caffeine is not the issue but something specific to coffee.

 

[Peater Piper]

If you're reacting to even the good decaf stuff, then I agree that it's probably specific to the coffee and should be avoided. What issues does coffee cause you? Jitters? Reflux? Did you have issues with the alternatives you tried, or you simply missed coffee?

 

[dbh25]

If you're reacting to even the good decaf stuff, then I agree that it's probably specific to the coffee and should be avoided. What issues does coffee cause you? Jitters? Reflux? Did you have issues with the alternatives you tried, or you simply missed coffee?

The alternatives I tried gave me neither the good or bad with coffee- good: warming, makes a good mood better, the taste & bad: more frequent urination, makes a bad mood worse, feels like it interferes with digestion. Yes, I simply missed coffee and end up going back to it. Since I think I can handle caffeine, I'm looking to try a replacement option. I currently drink about a cup (12 oz) a day- organic coffee made in a Chemex Thanks for your post.

 

[Peater Piper]

Yeah, coffee's high in tannic acid and is known to cause bile release and increase stomach acid. Having it with meals might help, but you might just be really sensitive to it. Have you tried cold brewed coffee? It's supposedly much less acidic than hot brewed coffee, however, the same acidity quote thrown around is always from a guy that's selling a cold brewing system, so it may be a load of crap. Still, I've seen people claim cold brewed coffee is easier on their stomachs. I like it with milk and maple syrup, but hot coffee doesn't bother me either.

I've read some good accounts of Yerba Mate, caffeine without the stimulation of coffee, but the taste apparently takes getting used to, and I have no idea how it impacts digestion or what the health pro's and con's might be.

 

[dbh25]

Thanks for the options. I have not tried cold brew or Yerba Mate. I usually have hot coffee with milk & sugar.

 

[cantstoppeating]

Of course coffee's just another tool, but if a person tolerates it and they enjoy it, then I would include it. ...

Right, if you can tolerate it, go right ahead.

Like I said, 95% of people on this forum however have problems with coffee/caffeine and as such, they should avoid it until after they've fixed a few health issues. Same strategy applies to dairy, which can be easily substituted with eggshell calcium powder and beef/chicken/lamb/eggs.

 

[skycop00]

In your case, most likely, yes. Adrenaline makes you feel good, increases your temp, makes you energetic but you'll notice the tell-tale signs of cold nose, cold and dark colored feet.

I'd say for 95% of people on this forum, who drink coffee or take caffeine on their journey to Peating, find themselves getting worse. If liver cleansing is what's needed then stick to K2 and magnesium, for sugar oxidation stick to thyroid. Use of coffee comes at the end when liver is able to efficiently hold glycogen.

I think you nailed this one! Thank you....

 

[Risingfire]

Right, if you can tolerate it, go right ahead.

Like I said, 95% of people on this forum however have problems with coffee/caffeine and as such, they should avoid it until after they've fixed a few health issues. Same strategy applies to dairy, which can be easily substituted with eggshell calcium powder and beef/chicken/lamb/eggs.

Cantstop, that's a big misstep saying 95% of posters here can't handle dairy. Different people process differently things, differently. It's really up to the individual.

 

[InChristAlone]

Right, if you can tolerate it, go right ahead.

Like I said, 95% of people on this forum however have problems with coffee/caffeine and as such, they should avoid it until after they've fixed a few health issues. Same strategy applies to dairy, which can be easily substituted with eggshell calcium powder and beef/chicken/lamb/eggs.

So do you think using caffeine when you are fatigued is like whipping a dead horse? Or is it the way Peat says addiction is just the body's way of coping?? Caffeine is my only real addiction. I can never go long without it, this past time I think I went about a month, during that time I rested a lot because I was too fatigued to do anything else! I also used cypro to help get cortisol down. Then I start craving caffeine again without those stress hormones to keep me going. So is the theories that its a thyroid surrogate wrong? I am on the fence, I just got up to half cup coffee definitely get a hot flash afterwards. But then I get things done that needed to be done for years! It is the best motivator for me. But if I'm using energy I don't have thats not good either. I feel like it acts like thyroid but can definitely increase stress hormones.

 

[dfspcc20]

FWIW- I notice a difference in how I react to many restaurant coffees (like Starbucks) compared to coffee I brew myself.

Many places have large coffee dispensers that go into what I assume is a stainless steel container (can't see inside of it), not the more recognizable glass pot drip coffee maker. I wonder if nickel from the stainless steel can be an issue, especially when the coffee has been sitting around in it for a while.

Adrenaline reactions are fairly obvious with me- cold hands, sudden urge to poo, need to pee frequently afterwards. The feeling I get from some restaurant coffee is different- more of just a spaciness.

 

[Peater Piper]

Right, if you can tolerate it, go right ahead.

Like I said, 95% of people on this forum however have problems with coffee/caffeine and as such, they should avoid it until after they've fixed a few health issues. Same strategy applies to dairy, which can be easily substituted with eggshell calcium powder and beef/chicken/lamb/eggs.

Sounds like we're on the same page. I wouldn't recommend anyone continue with something that's giving them problems, no matter how good it looks on paper. How much meat do you consume? I understand Peat's reasoning for not overdoing it, but it warms me up like nothing else, and I've considered having some at each meal. It really doesn't take much for a massive protein boost, which I think I might need.

 

[cantstoppeating]

So do you think using caffeine when you are fatigued is like whipping a dead horse? Or is it the way Peat says addiction is just the body's way of coping?? Caffeine is my only real addiction. I can never go long without it, this past time I think I went about a month, during that time I rested a lot because I was too fatigued to do anything else! I also used cypro to help get cortisol down. Then I start craving caffeine again without those stress hormones to keep me going. So is the theories that its a thyroid surrogate wrong? I am on the fence, I just got up to half cup coffee definitely get a hot flash afterwards. But then I get things done that needed to be done for years! It is the best motivator for me. But if I'm using energy I don't have thats not good either. I feel like it acts like thyroid but can definitely increase stress hormones.

Most people who consume coffee experience exactly what you describe, they might as well be taking a shot of adrenaline. I was highly productive when I was taking coffee/caffeine, but it was clear I was running on adrenaline.

I can't argue with all the published benefits of coffee/caffeine, but in practise what I've found is that it's too unpredictable and damaging to consume before the liver is fully functioning. Even though there's research to say that it's a tool to get the liver lean again, I still found it to cause more problems than it solved.

Sounds like we're on the same page. I wouldn't recommend anyone continue with something that's giving them problems, no matter how good it looks on paper. How much meat do you consume? I understand Peat's reasoning for not overdoing it, but it warms me up like nothing else, and I've considered having some at each meal. It really doesn't take much for a massive protein boost, which I think I might need.

I consume mostly fat free chicken breasts, with occasional liver, and beef on rare occasions. Peat's reasoning against chicken is the PUFA content in the fat, too low a calcium to phosphate ratio and lack of nutrients (compared to milk). Since I consume fat free chicken breasts, as well as eggshell calcium powder and other nutrient dense foods, I'm doing just fine.

 

[dbh25]

Many places have large coffee dispensers that go into what I assume is a stainless steel container (can't see inside of it), not the more recognizable glass pot drip coffee maker. I wonder if nickel from the stainless steel can be an issue, especially when the coffee has been sitting around in it for a while.

I think there is something to this, it at least affects the taste. I started making coffee at home with a glass pour over maker.

I can't argue with all the published benefits of coffee/caffeine, but in practise what I've found is that it's too unpredictable and damaging to consume before the liver is fully functioning. Even though there's research to say that it's a tool to get the liver lean again, I still found it to cause more problems than it solved.

I've made it 2 days so far without coffee, luckily I have been out of my normal routine which made it easier. I hope to re-introduce it at some point in the future when I feel better.

 

[Uncaged]

I suffered from severe depression for years, and later developed outward signs of chronic high cortisol like stretch marks, hair loss, and weight gain. After getting my health in order my depression has disappeared and so have the outward signs of high cortisol with weight loss, hair regrowth, and stretch marks actually vanishing.

@natedawggh
Could you outline the steps you've taken? I would really appreciate any input.

I'm currently dealing with the symptoms you listed, and I was really concerned when the random stretch marks began appearing for no reason, along with ruptured capillaries.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I too experienced stretch marks, though they were from bulking (gaining muscle).
Used to live in a chronically-stressed (emotionally) state