Ray Peat On Psychedelics

Discussion in 'Email Advice' started by Beastmode, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. Beastmode

    Beastmode Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    Messages:
    244
    Gender:
    Male
    I had asked Ray before if he ever had a psychedelic experience without the use of drugs and his response was:
    "Yes, I think the real psychedelic experience is a shift toward intensity, coherence, and satisfaction-expectancy; psychedelectics."

    In a follow up email I mentioned how a lot of my generation (I'm 40) are turning more towards them (i.e- even taking trips to South America for ayuhasca ceremonies, psylocibin, mushrooms.) I looked up the word psychedelectics and nothing came up so asked him more on it: (his response)

    "I had a seminar series in 1966 that I called the psychedelectic involution. When the change is based on integral physiology, it intensifies health as well as experience; each of those botanicals activates part of the system, leaving some good residues, but also some distortion of metabolism."

    I'm going to see if he'll dive deeper into this, but as everyone knows he doesn't always continue responding.
     
  2. lampofred

    lampofred Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2016
    Messages:
    2,352
    Gender:
    Male
    When your metabolism is so good that you start making up your own words to communicate.

    My guess is he was saying rich and "delectable" experiences can be psychedelic?
     
  3. OP
    Beastmode

    Beastmode Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    Messages:
    244
    Gender:
    Male
    Haha yeah! That was my take as well. First time I've ever questioned a word he's shared. Glad I asked :)

    His use of the word intensity is so different, and in quite a few email exchanges, than how my brain has been conditioned to connect it with being in a stressed state. Points back to that damn robust metabolism that's available.
     
  4. managing

    managing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2014
    Messages:
    1,606
    I suspect its supposed to be a combination of psychedelic and dialectic. Dialectics were all the rage in intellectual circles back then. And it does make sense in a weird way.
     
  5. tygertgr

    tygertgr Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    115
    When I hear people going on about psychedelics, mindfulness, meditation, or I guess in these parts supplement regimes, I think of certain Nietzsche passages: "this people has deliberately made itself stupid, for nearly a millennium: nowhere have the two great European narcotics, alcohol and Christianity, been abused more dissolutely."

    His point in the context of the full work was along the lines that a properly functioning animal wouldn't put up with the circumstances that called for stress ameliorating practices like drugs and meditation to deal with circumstances. He touches on this throughout his writings.

    Every time I see people seriously advocate for marijuana, psychedelics, or meditation, it's stressed out weirdos who refuse to make serious lifestyle changes, like quitting a job. Similar with all the crazy orthorexics and supplement-a-holics. Dude, you're just trying to avoid the actually hard but called-for fixes.
     
  6. magnesiumania

    magnesiumania Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    305
    Gender:
    Male
    He sold a lot of books so he must be right.

    Honestly ive never done a psychedelic to amerliorate stress. To me its about exploration and possibly expansion. It has definitly expanded my base of idea and been very helpful in my life...

    Besides that life is stress and theres really nothing wrong about dealing. Its not like drugs make you unable to quit a job!
     
  7. OP
    Beastmode

    Beastmode Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    Messages:
    244
    Gender:
    Male
    I know of some people who've experimented with different psychedelics and/or meditations who are definitely trying to "escape" their current reality and other's who seem to be on a path of "expansion" from their current reality.

    I'm most interested in how the metabolism gets distorted from usage of different psychedelics to gain a better appreciation.
     
  8. Experienced

    Experienced Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2017
    Messages:
    382
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Psychedelics aside - do you think that he consumes any medicinal mushrooms?
     
  9. morgan#1

    morgan#1 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Messages:
    295
    Gender:
    Female
    I wonder if Derrida and deconstruction and dialectics were on his mind?
     
  10. managing

    managing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2014
    Messages:
    1,606
    I think 66 was too early for Derrida (at least in North America). More likely Weber.
     
  11. OP
    Beastmode

    Beastmode Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    Messages:
    244
    Gender:
    Male
    From what I gather the late 60's were pretty wild with psychedelics so it makes sense why it may peak his interest in 1966 to have a seminar on it.

    I forwarded the above dialogue to Danny Roddy so it might be a topic they can discuss on a future interview. I don't know of anyone else who interviews him regularly, but if anyone does please feel free to ask them.
     
  12. indeterminacy

    indeterminacy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    71
    Gender:
    Male
    Care to elaborate?
     
  13. managing

    managing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2014
    Messages:
    1,606
    I dug a little deeper. Derrida didn't even publish Of Grammatology (De la Grammatologie) until 1967. First English translation was 1976. And Derrida didn't really catch on in the US until the mid 80s. Definitely Weber, which is a little more consistent with the pre-digital 1960s anyway.

    Of Grammatology - Wikipedia
     
  14. morgan#1

    morgan#1 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Messages:
    295
    Gender:
    Female
    I go off on tangents so bear with me. I studied Derrida, etc. in undergrad. And I loved it. And in Boston at Harvard later, I went and saw John Cage. His thing was (I think) he put random words in a computer, and then it came out with “random” stuff and our minds created order out of the chaos. He would read out the random words out of the computer and lo and behold our minds are very machine-like, and order and emotions were made...ie a sentence (mind you made by a computer) made sense.

    I’m really excited to open my mind, but not to force it open. Let it open naturally, because then it would be false; like the John Cage experiment. There are so many people (maybe I’m one of them) whose minds are convinced that real is real. Derrida thought that (I think) we have not touched thinking collectively. And the mind is a tricky thing. It’s very persuasive, with all of its emotions.

    I don’t know if that’s what you wanted; if you want to delve into it: google Derrida, deconstruction, etc. and for a real twist punch in Krishnamurti. He’s one who believes similar. Collective mind. I think the ego has us chasing our own tails, and getting exhausted.

    Bottom line, I think Ray Peat has opened my mind.
     
  15. indeterminacy

    indeterminacy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    71
    Gender:
    Male
    Jacques Derrida: Deconstruction

    Thanks, now I get what you meant.
     
  16. morgan#1

    morgan#1 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Messages:
    295
    Gender:
    Female
    Sure, yeah I did my good deed for the day!
     
  17. managing

    managing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2014
    Messages:
    1,606
    Again, I'd bet a lot of money that Ray Peat had never heard of Jacques Derrida in 1966.

    Dialectics comes originally from Hegel. But he was a realist, an objectivist. Weber and Marx were the ones to take dialectics and make them political. Derrida, among others, added reflexivity to the political aspirations of dialectics, which was sorely needed to move away from a dialectics of alternative oppression.

    But again, Derrida came much later. Unless RP is fluent in French and was hanging out at the Sorbonne between 1960 and 1966 (when Derrida was a junior faculty and publishing his first works) he certainly was unfamiliar with Derrida in 1966.
     
  18. morgan#1

    morgan#1 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Messages:
    295
    Gender:
    Female
    Ok managing
    You picked a good name, huh

    Collective mind, that’s what it’s all about.
    Hey maybe that’s proof, lol

    The ego makes you believe that your the one and only who can provide some sort of insight. Collective mind?
     
  19. morgan#1

    morgan#1 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Messages:
    295
    Gender:
    Female
    When you get that deep there isn’t much that your mind can think that hasn’t been thought before

    That is real insight, collective mind
     
  20. managing

    managing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2014
    Messages:
    1,606
    Sure, my ego makes me want to be factually accurate instead of drinking the kool-aid. Why not. #forgetfactsvivalacollective
     
Loading...