Ray Peat Diet Gave Me A Fatty Liver?

[tara]

But coconut oil is indeed pretty mouldy when it is packaged, the mould doesn't all survive over time *apparently*.

What makes you say that? Are you talking about virgin oil? I've had RBD coconut oil go mouldy in summer if it's been contaminated by other stuff, and I had a forgotten tub go mouldy in the back of the fridge after years of neglect, but the bucket of RBD oil in the pantry seems to be fine after months as long as it is not contaminated. Coconut oil has such a mild flavour and aroma that I think mould would be noticed at a fairly low level.
Even mould that has subsequently died off would leave behind unpleasant/toxic residue. Hopefully the refining processs clears this?

 

[jyb]

But coconut oil is indeed pretty mouldy when it is packaged, the mould doesn't all survive over time *apparently*.

What makes you say that? Are you talking about virgin oil? I've had RBD coconut oil go mouldy in summer if it's been contaminated by other stuff, and I had a forgotten tub go mouldy in the back of the fridge after years of neglect, but the bucket of RBD oil in the pantry seems to be fine after months as long as it is not contaminated. Coconut oil has such a mild flavour and aroma that I think mould would be noticed at a fairly low level.
Even mould that has subsequently died off would leave behind unpleasant/toxic residue. Hopefully the refining processs clears this?

Aflatoxin contamination is widespread for coconut products. There are studies decades old about this, probably worse now. Peat answered that its seems okay (reduces over time) since in general studies show positive effect of coconut oil...

 

[natedawggh]

I've been on a Ray Peat inspired diet for over 2 years now (Age: 40 Years).
I was first introduced to it by Danny Roddy.
The results have been great - Increased drive and productivity, extremely youthful skin, high libido etc.

But ...

I recently got an ultra sound of my abdomen and pelvis done because I'd been having a vague sense of fullness on my right upper quadrant.

The report now says that I have 'mild hepatomegaly with grade 1 fatty changes'. And the liver is mildly enlarged and measures 14.8 cm.

I have developed high triglycerides from Ray Peat stuff and like you have experienced positive effects on other physical conditions from increased energy to better sleep to curing aches/pains/skin conditions. A lot of fat development is adaptive and protective and if its saturated fat your body is probably putting it there for protection. That being said, even a tiny bit of liposaccharide (endotoxin), has been shown to stimulate liver changes via estrogen, and it is possible that the increased carbohydrates is spurring too much bacterial growth and your liver is protecting itself. You would for sure benefit from taking Doxycylcine, if you can get your doctor to prescribe it to you (claim you need it for acne or skin problems, and they will write it to you immediately). It's very helpful for a lot of these kind of conditions.

Also, I didn't read all the posts, so I didn't see if you listed this later, but you're not very specific about what you are eating and taking, and that is always crucial in asking help on here, so I'd recommend being forthcoming about all the foods you eat and the supplements you take. Also, I would definitely not stop taking B vitamins as recommended because they are crucial for proper metabolism and stopping would only make the issues worse.

 

[Rivka]

natedawggh - how much doxycycline do you think would help in this situation? Also would minocycline also be of similar benefit?

Peata - when you say you took 200mg caffeine, was that that a powder caffeine or through the drinking of coffee?

 

[Peata]

Just wanted to follow up on the extra caffeine experiment. I stopped the supplement entirely and just have my lattes and other caffeinated beverages and doing fine. The few days I took higher supplemented caffeine, I had too much adrenaline and cortisol and it got to be too much to handle - affecting sleep and even being able to watch a suspenseful or action type show or movie caused too much stress. When I cut back, everything was fine again. It's definitely better for me to get caffeine from the coffee and not supplement. It's smoother for me that way. I'm not sure, but I wonder if the excess stress from the caffeine caused me to have some of the worst pre-menstrual acne and then cramps that I'd had in a very long time. I wish I could say it helped my estrogen symptoms like someone reported, but it made things worse. But it was worth a shot to see if it could help. I'm happy just getting caffeine mainly from coffee again.

Does anyone else have a follow up?

 

[charlie]

I pretty much echo everything you said, Peata. The good thing about my caffeine expirenment is I picked coffee back up, so am pretty happy about that. :)

 

[nikotrope]

I didn't have any adrenaline/cortisol problem with caffeine, maybe that's why my estrogen symptoms got better, not worse. But if you increased your tolerance, then you probably improved your liver so it's good for the long term. I don't take as much caffeine as before and still feel better than before.

 

[Sheila]

4 (1 tsp instant) coffees with food a day, instead of 2 and 1 x 100mg B1 every day for a month or so have made a big difference for me liver wise and also in motivation/productivity. I think it was a step I was missing despite Crono saying everything was peachy. The effect has not worn off with time either.
Sheila

 

[Peata]

I didn't have any adrenaline/cortisol problem with caffeine, maybe that's why my estrogen symptoms got better, not worse. But if you increased your tolerance, then you probably improved your liver so it's good for the long term. I don't take as much caffeine as before and still feel better than before.

That's great. So what are you remaining problems? is it inability to lose weight?

 

[nikotrope]

Still can't lose weight. So there are probably other remaining problems that I can't see or feel.

My eyelids are still twitching, I've bought magnesium and some B vitamin supplements and am waiting to receive them.

 

[yoshiesque]

guys, should i be eating sugar/fruits if i have fatty liver (and possibly also slightly enlarged)??

I thought sugar metabolism becomes poor, so it might cause fatty liver to get worse?

It seems to me that until liver is optimal, i should avoid it.

 

[HDD]

guys, should i be eating sugar/fruits if i have fatty liver (and possibly also slightly enlarged)??

I thought sugar metabolism becomes poor, so it might cause fatty liver to get worse?

It seems to me that until liver is optimal, i should avoid it.

If you read through this thread, ss post lists what he does and one thing is supplement t4. I thought that you might be interested since you are considering t4.

 

[HDD]

Yoshiesque, this post by haidut discusses fatty liver, sugar, and thyroid.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5652&hilit=Fatty+liver

 

[haidut]

guys, should i be eating sugar/fruits if i have fatty liver (and possibly also slightly enlarged)??

I thought sugar metabolism becomes poor, so it might cause fatty liver to get worse?

It seems to me that until liver is optimal, i should avoid it.

If you read through this thread, ss post lists what he does and one thing is supplement t4. I thought that you might be interested since you are considering t4.

Apparently, eating 35% protein diet reverses fatty liver. Of course, that much protein can increase ammonia if your liver is sluggish/fatty but you increase sodium, magnesium, zinc and potato intake to mop up the excess ammonia.

 

[yoshiesque]

Just wanted clarification on a few things for fatty liver protocol.

Such_Saturation said the following:

Here is the protocol I used:

Red Bull (or taurine) once per day
Stop niacinamide
Choline
Stop progesterone
Stop aspirin
Avoid long chain fat
T4 every day

I can find the papers if you would like.

Ray Peats take on Liver Disease:

Eliminating all PUFA would be the most important thing, and having lots of orange juice, other sugars including honey, and milk and gelatin. Cytomel, aspirin, acetazolamide, and progesterone all protect the liver and help to slow cancer growth. Some people use extremely large amounts of aspirin, which require supplements of vitamin K, to prevent bleeding. Fibrous foods such as bamboo shoots and laxatives such as cascara help to reduce the absorption of bowel toxins that promote cancer and burden the liver.

Note that RP said that taking aspirin and progesterone is good.

So whats the conclusion here? I agree with such_saturations point of view purely for the fact that aspirin has been known to elevate LFTs....but still a bit confused?

Thanks!

 

[Such_Saturation]

I'm not saying fatty liver is a liver disease, just that I wanted to shed the fat. Aspirin hinders this process and progesterone I think I heard Ray Peat say on the radio that it stimulates triglyceride synthesis, but I could be wrong.

 

[BobbyDukes]

Just wanted clarification on a few things for fatty liver protocol.

Such_Saturation said the following:

Here is the protocol I used:

Red Bull (or taurine) once per day
Stop niacinamide
Choline
Stop progesterone
Stop aspirin
Avoid long chain fat
T4 every day

I can find the papers if you would like.

Ray Peats take on Liver Disease:

Eliminating all PUFA would be the most important thing, and having lots of orange juice, other sugars including honey, and milk and gelatin. Cytomel, aspirin, acetazolamide, and progesterone all protect the liver and help to slow cancer growth. Some people use extremely large amounts of aspirin, which require supplements of vitamin K, to prevent bleeding. Fibrous foods such as bamboo shoots and laxatives such as cascara help to reduce the absorption of bowel toxins that promote cancer and burden the liver.

Note that RP said that taking aspirin and progesterone is good.

So whats the conclusion here? I agree with such_saturations point of view purely for the fact that aspirin has been known to elevate LFTs....but still a bit confused?

Thanks!

I thought that 99.9% of people in this community are restricting PUFA. Isn't that pretty much the main thing that we all here have in common? I assume the OP was restricting PUFA just like you and me. I don't know what causes fatty liver, but it is a worry. I don't believe that it is benign as some people (not here) think. To me, it's a symptom that is telling you that something isn't right. I mean, is it caused by a calorie surplus (although thin people get it as well?? So your body packs fat into your internal organs - yet, on the outside, you're ripped - wtf?)... Or is it like Dr Peat says? Basically your liver function is whack? Is that what Dr Peat says? When he says 'liver disease', is he talking about fatty liver too?

 

[Such_Saturation]

No he is not. Besides, aspirin and various megadose vitamins that you take block your liver from moving the damn stuff. It is pretty straightforward.

 

[nikotrope]

When you say "Avoid long chain fat" you talk about only PUFA or you include all saturated fats with long chain fat (which would only leave MCT oil I guess)?

 

[Such_Saturation]

When you say "Avoid long chain fat" you talk about only PUFA or you include all saturated fats with long chain fat (which would only leave MCT oil I guess)?

I mean butter and all saturated as well. I don't know really but it feels like medium chain would be harder to store.