High Fructose = Fatty Liver Risk?

[wayney]

Have been eating Ray Peat diet for a year now.

Been reading that high fructose might lead to fatty liver. Ain't there a risk that the Ray Peat diet lead to fatty liver?

What can be done do prevent it? Heard that supplementing with choline can be good, but than I have read a lot of threads on the forum that is against supplementing with choline.

Thanks!

 

[not_James_Bond]

Have a look at this Metabolic Effects Of A Prolonged, Very-high-dose Dietary Fructose Challenge In Healthy Subjects
Calories, Not Fructose, Linked to NAFLD

 

[Maljam]

After several years of Peating I developed NAFLD (never had issues before, diagnosed by ultrasound.) Since slightly lowering carbs and eating predominantly potatoes as my carb source, eating lots of egg yolks (choline) I have improved it.

 

[Jessie]

Fatty liver from fructose is only possible due to folks with high PUFA accumulation and low protein diets. Also I'm not sure why anyone would need to supplement choline if they're eating plenty of protein, egg yolks, and ruminant liver. Protein can be converted into choline, and egg yolks and liver are both concentrated sources of dietary choline.

Having said that, I would be equally curious to know the reasoning why some folks are against choline supplementation. Especially if they support the consumption of nutrient dense animal foods like liver and eggs.

 

[Jessie]

To clarify, my only understanding of why someone would be against choline is the TMAO controversy. But most of that is junk science.

 

[Maljam]

Fatty liver from fructose is only possible due to folks with high PUFA accumulation and low protein diets. Also I'm not sure why anyone would need to supplement choline if they're eating plenty of protein, egg yolks, and ruminant liver. Protein can be converted into choline, and egg yolks and liver are both concentrated sources of dietary choline.

Having said that, I would be equally curious to know the reasoning why some folks are against choline supplementation. Especially if they support the consumption of nutrient dense animal foods like liver and eggs.

N=1 my own personal experience YMMV, I developed NAFLD with PUFA extremely low for several years, and decent protein daily, so I don't think it is as black and white as that.

I very rarely ate eggs though, so I am not sure if I could have avoided it if I was eating eggs. I was avoiding eggs to keep my PUFA as low as possible.

 

[Jessie]

It's fairly common for people to still have high PUFA accumulation even after discontinuing large amounts of dietary PUFA. Furthermore, the connection between a slowed metabolism (caused by PUFA) and the development of bacterial/endotoxin overgrowth plays a factor as well. Certain bacteria can elongate shorter chain saturated fats. So a unhealthy gut could be creating PUFAs when you aren't even eating them.

Eggs do contain PUFA, but the amounts are negligible in the context of sensible advice. If you listen to a keto guru and eat half a carton daily, then yeah, you may be getting too much PUFA from eggs. But according to cronometer, the approx amount of PUFA in 3 jumbo sized eggs (most eggs aren't jumbo) is 2.7 grams. And there's no specification that these eggs are pasture raised, so presumably speaking these were really large eggs from a conventional hen eating soy. Average size eggs from a hen eating a insect based diet are really low in PUFA.

 

[ursidae]

Fructose is shady

 

[Maljam]

It's fairly common for people to still have high PUFA accumulation even after discontinuing large amounts of dietary PUFA. Furthermore, the connection between a slowed metabolism (caused by PUFA) and the development of bacterial/endotoxin overgrowth plays a factor as well. Certain bacteria can elongate shorter chain saturated fats. So a unhealthy gut could be creating PUFAs when you aren't even eating them.

Eggs do contain PUFA, but the amounts are negligible in the context of sensible advice. If you listen to a keto guru and eat half a carton daily, then yeah, you may be getting too much PUFA from eggs. But according to cronometer, the approx amount of PUFA in 3 jumbo sized eggs (most eggs aren't jumbo) is 2.7 grams. And there's no specification that these eggs are pasture raised, so presumably speaking these were really large eggs from a conventional hen eating soy. Average size eggs from a hen eating a insect based diet are really low in PUFA.

Why do you write like a Peat PR spokesperson?

I first came across Peat early in 2011, I was low PUFA for 6-7 years before officially being diagnosed with fatty liver. I've heard it all, seen it all.

I feel good eating a half carton of eggs daily

 

[ursidae]

Why do you write like a Peat PR spokesperson?

I first came across Peat early in 2011, I was low PUFA for 6-7 years before officially being diagnosed with fatty liver. I've heard it all, seen it all.

I feel good eating a half carton of eggs daily

Were you physically active, did you get 10+ hours of sunlight and do you live near the equator. In my view fruit is only safe in those circumstances. Danny Roddy’s health and vitality astound me

 

[jet9]

After several years of Peating I developed NAFLD (never had issues before, diagnosed by ultrasound.) Since slightly lowering carbs and eating predominantly potatoes as my carb source, eating lots of egg yolks (choline) I have improved it.

Could you elaborate on your diet now? Ideally examples of breakfast / lunch / dinner.
You don’t any fruit?

 

[jet9]

Fatty liver from fructose is only possible due to folks with high PUFA accumulation and low protein diets. Also I'm not sure why anyone would need to supplement choline if they're eating plenty of protein, egg yolks, and ruminant liver. Protein can be converted into choline, and egg yolks and liver are both concentrated sources of dietary choline.

Having said that, I would be equally curious to know the reasoning why some folks are against choline supplementation. Especially if they support the consumption of nutrient dense animal foods like liver and eggs.

No, it’s not. I am pufa free for more then 5 years, muscular skinny, exercise every day, don’t eat any junk, and still can get fatty liver symptoms (brain fog, high blood sugar, etc) by overdoing fruits even with lots of good protein.

 

[Maljam]

Were you physically active, did you get 10+ hours of sunlight and do you live near the equator. In my view fruit is only safe in those circumstances. Danny Roddy’s health and vitality astound me

I think a lot of coffee can mask the downsides. I think fruit is safe in small quantities but shouldnt be a staple.

 

[Maljam]

No, it’s not. I am pufa free for more then 5 years, muscular skinny, exercise every day, don’t eat any junk, and still can get fatty liver symptoms (brain fog, high blood sugar, etc) by overdoing fruits even with lots of good protein.

How come you continue to eat lots of fruit if you've already accepted it is contributing to fatty liver symptoms?

 

[Jessie]

Why do you write like a Peat PR spokesperson?

After several years of Peating

Because I'm generally suspicious of anyone that's been "peating." For one, there is no such thing as Peating. Peat isn't peating, Danny isn't peating, Haidut isn't peating. Anyone with common sense isn't peating. Only people "peating" are typically subjects eating 5,000-6,000 calories a day, consuming mostly liquids, and wondering why they're getting fat and health complications.

 

[Jessie]

No, it’s not. I am pufa free for more then 5 years, muscular skinny, exercise every day, don’t eat any junk, and still can get fatty liver symptoms (brain fog, high blood sugar, etc) by overdoing fruits even with lots of good protein.

There's almost no context here, and several things cause brain fog and high blood sugar.

 

[Maljam]

Because I'm generally suspicious of anyone that's been "peating." For one, there is no such thing as Peating. Peat isn't peating, Danny isn't peating, Haidut isn't peating. Anyone with common sense isn't peating. Only people "peating" are typically subjects eating 5,000-6,000 calories a day, consuming mostly liquids, and wondering why they're getting fat and health complications.

There's no such thing as peating, and then you define a category of people that are peating?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

If that would be the case, peatarians here would be getting NAFLD left and right.
So you're saying that until one is PUFA depleted, 4 years, he could still get NAFLD.
How about fruitarians, do they get NAFLD?

 

[Vegancrossfit]

NAFLD = caloric excess first and foremost. If liver is in the fed state 24/7 it keeps piling up fat. If liver is the fasted state more so than in the fed state it burns off more energy than it piles on.

Simple

 

[davvid_1]

Were you physically active, did you get 10+ hours of sunlight and do you live near the equator. In my view fruit is only safe in those circumstances. Danny Roddy’s health and vitality astound me

quick question, by this do u mean 10+ hours of sunlight a week? or does it being sunny outside count?