Progesterone And "estrogen Detox" Symptoms

[dookie]

Pregnenolone helped my wife immediately stopping hot flashes. She lubricates much better. But she's had cysts appear on her skin and I think it's from this. Is this temporary?

ecstatichamster, what do you mean by "cysts", can you post a picture?

I have experienced similar things with both progesterone and pregnenolone. For example, they both cause hyperpigmentation of an area on my face close to the nose. It's all very interesting to me, how these supplements cause both good and bad effects, so I can't truly determine if I should take them again. For example, progesterone causes a reduction of water retention in my hands (my fingers are clearly "skinner") yet my thighs, legs, breasts become larger (not desirable if you are male).

 

[dookie]

What in the world is "enough alkaline minerals"? What is good nutrition? If a person is meeting the RDAs and taking in minerals already for a long time before starting progest e then it's not the lack of nutrition and lack of minerals that are the stressors creating the negative symptoms when applying progest e, because that has been accounted for. It's the progest e that is disrupting the system and needs to be at least questioned as something that is bad for the body at that time. Nutrition can't be held as a static thing, as Peat mentioned, "If Heraclitus said it's impossible to step in the same river twice, his comment was directed to those who ignore the rich complexity of experience because of stereotyped “elemental” thinking."

I can think of no better place to apply the rich complexity of experience point of view than the application of hormone therapy. People who run out and buy progesterone cream, who know nothing of Peat, and who have a good experience with it aren't always combining it with good nutrition. It's not a cut and dry thing. Progest e isn't for everyone even if nutrition is "good". It needs to be used with caution and a person needs to pay attention to their symptoms and understand the possible cost of pushing through their bad symptoms.

Bones I appreciate your comments. I've notice this happening with many people, who read about a certain supplement, particularly it seems to be thyroid or progesterone. Many websites promote these two hormones are cures for a wide range of health issues, so people get eager to use something non-pharmacological for the issues. This is understandable. But I think the problem comes when statements are made that "you will feel worse before you feel better" or "raise the dose when it makes you feel bad", etc. I did this with thyroid for a long time, constantly hoping that there would be a change once my TSH got to a certain point, or my temperature or pulse or etc. Yet the symptoms only worsened. Progesterone I feel like has some good potential, especially for some people it seems very helpful, and in a way I think it's safer than thyroid, but it's absolutely necessary to pay close attention to symptoms, and to realize that there may be a difference between theory/studies and the actual experience your body sends you signals about. Experience is the only true form of knowledge, as Blake would say ..

 

[Peata]

In my situation, it wasn't that Progest E made symptoms WORSE when I started it, it was that the same estrogen dominance symptoms I'd been having all along did not go away until I raised the dose a lot. I think that is a difference: It didn't make symptoms worse, or not by much at least, it just didn't help until I experimented with doses and it took hundreds of milligrams to deal with my symptoms.

 

[ecstatichamster]

ecstatichamster, what do you mean by "cysts", can you post a picture?

I have experienced similar things with both progesterone and pregnenolone. For example, they both cause hyperpigmentation of an area on my face close to the nose. It's all very interesting to me, how these supplements cause both good and bad effects, so I can't truly determine if I should take them again. For example, progesterone causes a reduction of water retention in my hands (my fingers are clearly "skinner") yet my thighs, legs, breasts become larger (not desirable if you are male).

Blister like things. On on her clitoris. On on her vulva. One on her finger.

 

[Bones]

Bones I appreciate your comments. I've notice this happening with many people, who read about a certain supplement, particularly it seems to be thyroid or progesterone. Many websites promote these two hormones are cures for a wide range of health issues, so people get eager to use something non-pharmacological for the issues. This is understandable. But I think the problem comes when statements are made that "you will feel worse before you feel better" or "raise the dose when it makes you feel bad", etc. I did this with thyroid for a long time, constantly hoping that there would be a change once my TSH got to a certain point, or my temperature or pulse or etc. Yet the symptoms only worsened. Progesterone I feel like has some good potential, especially for some people it seems very helpful, and in a way I think it's safer than thyroid, but it's absolutely necessary to pay close attention to symptoms, and to realize that there may be a difference between theory/studies and the actual experience your body sends you signals about. Experience is the only true form of knowledge, as Blake would say ..

Thanks and I appreciate your reply as well for adding more clarity from a different point of view on the matter. I have taken T3/T4 and had way less symptoms than progest e. I feel my sex hormones are something that are very delicate and I feel since I took the progest e, my sex hormones haven't been the same since before I took it and that was 2 years ago. It seems I haven't been able to get back to where I was with my cycle before taking it. I couldn't imagine pushing through symptoms.

I am sure like with everything there is validity and truth to a lot of varying strategies but if I have to live with "what could have been had I pushed through with worsening symptoms?" then I am willing to do so and pay that price. I feel with so many treatments, the practitioner wants you pushing through rather than listening to your own body be it any sort of detox or fasting or drug. Which leads to overall better health? Listening or pushing through? It's almost like this religious "you have to suffer" approach to healing rather than something gentle that makes way more sense with an overly stressed person. If stress is causing people's problems why do people add more stress? Just some thoughts that go through my mind here and there. I find the most gains for myself have been with the most gentle, non-negative symptom creating scenario as possible. I just wish someone had shed light on it in this way for me in the past, would have saved a lot of pain and a one step forward ten steps back experience of healing.

 

[dookie]

Blister like things. On on her clitoris. On on her vulva. One on her finger.

Maybe the good effects of progesterone are due the way progesterone and its related metabolites act on tissues, yet the negative ones are those that occur due to the conversion to estrogen, etc? This is just a guess. Since I notice both good and bad effects from progesterone, I'm wondering if the bad ones could be mainly from the part of a dose that converts to estrogen? Maybe taking progesterone together with a pharmaceutical aromatase inhibitor, or another powerful anti-estrogen/pro-testosterone drug would eliminate some of the side-effects?

Probably risky to start combining powerful treatments like that, but just a thought experiment

 

[dookie]

Thanks and I appreciate your reply as well for adding more clarity from a different point of view on the matter. I have taken T3/T4 and had way less symptoms than progest e. I feel my sex hormones are something that are very delicate and I feel since I took the progest e, my sex hormones haven't been the same since before I took it and that was 2 years ago. It seems I haven't been able to get back to where I was with my cycle before taking it. I couldn't imagine pushing through symptoms.

I am sure like with everything there is validity and truth to a lot of varying strategies but if I have to live with "what could have been had I pushed through with worsening symptoms?" then I am willing to do so and pay that price. I feel with so many treatments, the practitioner wants you pushing through rather than listening to your own body be it any sort of detox or fasting or drug. Which leads to overall better health? Listening or pushing through? It's almost like this religious "you have to suffer" approach to healing rather than something gentle that makes way more sense with an overly stressed person. If stress is causing people's problems why do people add more stress? Just some thoughts that go through my mind here and there. I find the most gains for myself have been with the most gentle, non-negative symptom creating scenario as possible. I just wish someone had shed light on it in this way for me in the past, would have saved a lot of pain and a one step forward ten steps back experience of healing.

For how long did you take progesterone ?

 

[tara]

yet the negative ones are those that occur due to the conversion to estrogen, etc?

Is this something that can happen? I have not seen Peat mention it as a possibility at all.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Pregnenolone helped my wife immediately stopping hot flashes. She lubricates much better. But she's had cysts appear on her skin and I think it's from this. Is this temporary?

I can't tolerate pregnenolone at all, it makes me very irritable/bitchy and my skin breaks out TERRIBLY. I've tried preg twice now in an effort to help my brain, but I just cannot do it. I suspect that it turns to estrogen in my body through some convoluted route.

 

[dookie]

Is this something that can happen? I have not seen Peat mention it as a possibility at all.

I think that Peat thinks it can't happen.

However, according to this picture it seems like it can convert: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Steroidogenesis.svg

Also according to reviews of many women who have used natural progesterone cream for months, with continued estrogenic effects, it just seems likely that something else than "estrogen detox" is going on.

http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=9238

 

[dookie]

I can't tolerate pregnenolone at all, it makes me very irritable/bitchy and my skin breaks out TERRIBLY. I've tried preg twice now in an effort to help my brain, but I just cannot do it. I suspect that it turns to estrogen in my body through some convoluted route.

Do you get similar reaction with progesterone?

 

[supernature]

I think that Peat thinks it can't happen.

However, according to this picture it seems like it can convert: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Steroidogenesis.svg

Also according to reviews of many women who have used natural progesterone cream for months, with continued estrogenic effects, it just seems likely that something else than "estrogen detox" is going on.

http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=9238

Thanks for sharing it dookie!

I looked at the symptoms and comments shared by the users of askapatient.com, i thought there was males as well-as stated, even so little, but after reading i got impression the posts are mostly written by females.
There was comments on progesteron, DHEA, thyroid and other substances, however take a look guys at one of the posts, which conclusion sounds pretty reasonable to me:

"SIDE EFFECTS FOR PROGESTERONE and COMMENTS
Had problems with progesterone, and you don't know why? First, look at why you would take progesterone in the first place: horrible periods? Horrible PMS? Horrible menopause? These are all SYMPTOMS of underlying problems. So trying to "fix" the underlying problems are like trying to buy a fan to rid yourself of the smoke, and not buying the water that drowns the fire instead. For me, I took progesterone after a doctor told me that my progesterone levels were too low. Failing to look at WHY my progesterone levels (at the age of 35) were low, I was convinced that I should take the progesterone. I became very miserable. I could not drive. I could not think. I could not sleep. I could not eat many foods without feeling horrible. You see, years ago, I was drinking a lot of Starbucks-- the coffee, and the green tea. Green Tea contains tons of fluoride, and coffee contains many things that raise your cortisol levels. (Fluoride is very poisonous). So when you are under a lot of stres Guess what? You are not supposed to have any progesterone bc you are DONE with having kids! If you want to feel better, HEAL your ADRENALS!So, now what do you do??? First and foremost, stop ALL of the hormones. Quit trying to outsmart mother nature by balancing this and that with taking thyroid, estrogen, progesterone, TH3, HGH.... stop everything! The best thing ever is JUICING. NOT pasteurized juice, but juice your own organic LIVE juice. Juice things that are red, green, orange, purple.... mix it up! You will feel like a human again in 8 months, and in 18 months, you will be healed. Learn the lesson, and heed the warnings: don't take anymore hormones... BIO IDENTICAL HRT is a scam. Trust mother nature; not a chemist that makes money off of you, and your pain. Your healing time is 9-18 months from the time that you have stopped taking ALL hormones that are man made."

 

[mayweatherking]

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Do you get similar reaction with progesterone?

I stopped taking Progest-E orally a couple months ago. I still use it topically on occasion, but I'm probably not getting enough to cause a strong reaction, if it were to cause one, so I dunno.

I used HUGE doses of Progest-E for my first year and a half of Peating, really insane amounts (for a lot of reasons), but at some point I guess I just didn't really need it any more....this is based only my own personal symptoms and instinct. The health issues that I had (a breast lump, severe PMS and a beard!) simply went away.

 

[dookie]

It definitely has some effects which seem anti-estrogenic (or anti nitric oxide, anti serotonin, anti histamine, etc), but also several clear pro-estrogenic effects, like water-retention, bloating, etc. I don't seem to understand this hormone well enough. It seems to have a wide range of effects.

 

[mayweatherking]

It definitely has some effects which seem anti-estrogenic (or anti nitric oxide, anti serotonin, anti histamine, etc), but also several clear pro-estrogenic effects, like water-retention, bloating, etc. I don't seem to understand this hormone well enough. It seems to have a wide range of effects.

well i think it's something else as he said... as in like, maybe you just have an infection or something, i dk. i started progesterone and wound up feeling very low libido from it for some reason. i'm not sure why. i felt out of it. it was weird, because i think it was helping me, but i feel like it tanked my testosterone or something because i just felt no libido.. like i could be social, but not really social or something. like brain foggy.. but still felt like i had my faculties. it was like i had brain fog, but i was still able to function, it is really hard to describe. but preg i did better with, i'm not sure if it is helping me that much to be honest with you lol.

i think i'd have to get a wider range of blood work and see if any of my hormones are messed up and then i can decide if what he says is true. i will do this btw.. i get paid in like 9 days and i will do a full hormone panel and see if i can find the root cause of my progesterone problems.

 

[DaveFoster]

Maybe the antagonism of estrogen causes predominance from other hormones? Cortisol and prolactin come to mind.

 

[tara]

i started progesterone and wound up feeling very low libido from it for some reason. i'm not sure why.

I think this is not unusual. How much were you taking?

 

[dookie]

well i think it's something else as he said... as in like, maybe you just have an infection or something, i dk. i started progesterone and wound up feeling very low libido from it for some reason. i'm not sure why. i felt out of it. it was weird, because i think it was helping me, but i feel like it tanked my testosterone or something because i just felt no libido.. like i could be social, but not really social or something. like brain foggy.. but still felt like i had my faculties. it was like i had brain fog, but i was still able to function, it is really hard to describe. but preg i did better with, i'm not sure if it is helping me that much to be honest with you lol.

i think i'd have to get a wider range of blood work and see if any of my hormones are messed up and then i can decide if what he says is true. i will do this btw.. i get paid in like 9 days and i will do a full hormone panel and see if i can find the root cause of my progesterone problems.

Many women I heard from experience estrogenic effects from progesterone. One women got a swollen belly that made her look pregnant. I also don't like how it increases the size of my **** and thighs and swells up my lips, almost a feminizing effect, but I think it's from the conversion to estrogen. I also retain so much water. My blood counts are always normal so I doubt it's an infection.

 

[Peata]

This website has tons of info about progesterone: Progesterone Wray, the owner of the site has counseled about progesterone for a long time. If you do searches on that page for symptoms getting worse on progesterone, you will get hundreds of results where people have written to her that their estrogen symptoms have grown worse on progesterone and she has advised people on why this is happening and how to overcome it.