'Peatarians'

[Greg says]

http://edwardjedmonds.com/the-will-to-survive/

An interesting article from Danny Roddy's Facebook page.

*Dan Wich got in there before me

 

[Nicholas]

i went to a doctor yesterday and it was mildly depressing. i really really tried to act like i didn't know very much about the body or metabolic factors but even with the slightest hint that i knew something or was requesting a test that he wouldn't typically do in my situation you could tell he was offended. By the end of the appointment i felt meaningless because he was simply trying to fit me into medical parameters and get me into their profit system by following this pre-designed protocol for finding problems and then getting you on prescriptions with a logo bearing a green leaf as if to suggest that it was their "holistic" or "natural" approach - like it was the option for those disenchanted with the medical system when in reality it was just the wolf in sheep's clothing. i'm not being dramatic in that the whole situation was a little grotesque under the surface - like i'm supposed to mindlessly fit into these medical programs and they don't even consider you as being able to perceive things independently of them.

 

[4peatssake]

i went to a doctor yesterday and it was mildly depressing. i really really tried to act like i didn't know very much about the body or metabolic factors but even with the slightest hint that i knew something or was requesting a test that he wouldn't typically do in my situation you could tell he was offended. By the end of the appointment i felt meaningless because he was simply trying to fit me into medical parameters and get me into their profit system by following this pre-designed protocol for finding problems and then getting you on prescriptions with a logo bearing a green leaf as if to suggest that it was their "holistic" or "natural" approach - like it was the option for those disenchanted with the medical system when in reality it was just the wolf in sheep's clothing. i'm not being dramatic in that the whole situation was a little grotesque under the surface - like i'm supposed to mindlessly fit into these medical programs and they don't even consider you as being able to perceive things independently of them.

Yikes, hope you ran out of there quick.
I wouldn't waste five minutes of my time with a doctor such as this.
If i were to seek a relationship with any health practitioner, it would be agreed from the outset that that person was being paid to assist me in a kind of partnership to better my health and it would be made clear that I am in charge of my health and well being and that they were a support person. Any doctor worth his salt would see this as the best possible arrangement as the "patient" would be taking full responsibility for his or her health,

Anything less than that as a starting point for discussion would mean I was out the door and seeking help elsewhere. I'm not about to dumb myself down to keep a doctor's ego in check.

That being said, I do know how difficult it is to find a doctor who will get on board but they do exist. And I think the more we insist on us being the person in charge and directing our health, the more the "system" will be forced to adapt.

:2cents

 

[Nicholas]

yeah, i kind of wrapped it up when i sensed that he was dictating what i would and wouldn't do and wouldn't ask my why.....

on another note.... that Edward Edmonds blog is pretty awesome.....i started reading one of his blogs and i can't stop now....primarily because he is tapping into things that my subconscious brain has been tapping into but i didn't have the language or understanding yet to really see where it was headed.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I clicked though Edwards google+ and found his review of a local barber shop:

https://plus.google.com/+EdwardEdmonds/reviews

"I've been to this "barber shop" two times since I've moved to the Albany area. I'm prior USAF and I'm used to military barbers taking their time to really work on the fade with military haircuts. It happens that black barbers in my experience do it the best. Which these folks do well. However, the first time I went to this shop the guy did a o.k. job, I could tell he was struggling with what is a simple hair cut for a white guy, short on the sides a little longer on top. High and tight but not so tight. Though he struggled he seemed to be really trying to make me happy. I value that. However, the second time, I questioned whether or not the guy had actually been to barber school. It was a terrible hair cut. Once again the fade was right, but he destroyed the top. As he was struggling I said just take it all off with the longest setting on the buzzer. You know I walk into a barber and I expect that a good hair cut is something every customer wants. If you can't cut the hair of a white guy, then say so, have a little man hood and be honest and say hey we don't have a lot of experience with cutting your type of hair perhaps you might want to try another place. I'm fine with that. What is worse is that the first guy spoke hardly any English and he did a o.k. job; he had vision of what would look good. The second guy spoke clear English and it was just terrible. A good business is one that is honest with their customers."

Wow. Very strange for someone who purports to be an open minded anti-establishment kind of person.

A few words to describe Edward would be elitist, entitled, hipster, virtual validation seeker.

He's also a saturated fat dogmatist and anti-sugar propagandist, but that doesn't really matter. What matters is this:

Edward suffers from what many us who are into health/nutrition do, and that is we think people actually care. We're fooled into thinking this. It can be seen in the time spent writing a blog like he does, or even me writing this right now. We don't have any friends or family who are into nutrition as much as we are so we resort to the internet to find some like minded people. Danny Roddy once posted a picture of his name tag that the Red Cross gave him for donating blood, and in the comments one of his good friends called him a "freak." A friendly joke but as the saying goes, a lot of truth is said in jest, meaning, his friend really did think he was a freak for going out of his way just to donate blood for Iron-dumping purposes. Danny also said that he created the DR Weblog Facebook page because he wanted to stop "bugging" his friends and family with annoying posts about nutrition and health. But even if we have some kind of internet interaction with people who share our passion, it's still just digital. The internet is just digital 1's and 0's. There is a major lack of real human interaction with sharing something that we're passionate about. All this talk that Edward and many people write about "the system" means noting. It's futile. People don't care. Nothing will change. I donated to OTBOAT and I'm really excited for it but I will not be surprised if it does not make Harvard change their recommendation for polyunsaturated fats. All we have is ourselves and the choices we make. There are no guarantees. There's just living in the day.

Edward, you should be smart enough to not equate an interest/passion in health with a "religion." Religion is defined as the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power and nutrition is...not that. If I am treating Peatarianism like a religion then please also go tell the guy who holds the Guinness Book of World Records for the largest collection of Super Soakers that's he's treating squirt guns like a religion:

Funny, he kind of looks like Edward:

http://www.wcnews.com/chrisreid/supersoakers.html

 

[cantstoppeating]

Interesting blog.

I don't want to belittle him with some random ad hominem attack, but I do want to be relevant and share some irony in his "Peaterian" post:

...whirl-winded me away from the cult-life and towards synergizing my own ideas most of which aren’t published publicly. There are some people who I confided in and shared a portion of my work with who were also Peat “followers” who said in so many words “that this is the light at the end of the tunnel”, the thing that will bring everything full circle. That was a few years ago.

What is this 'light' that he speaks of? I'd like to hear it, but unfortunately he's not sharing it because,

Such compliments scare the ***t out me. And after which, I became reclusive to examine the finer details.

Well OK, but then he says things like,

A lot of people who should be scientists and have the charisma and passion to change things don’t become them because they are disenchanted with the system in place. What cowards. If you want to change something you have to participate and help the system to evolve. You do your small part and help to change things for the future. Being reclusive from that hostile environment only demonstrates the compliant temperament to bowing down to authority.

So people who have the knowledge and passion to help others but don't are cowards. And the fact that they become reclusive demonstrates their compliant temperament to authority.

It seems to me he's criticising other people for doing the very same stuff he admitted to doing only a few paragraphs earlier: he has the passion and knowledge to help people (aka the "light at the end of the tunnel"), but becomes reclusive because a compliment scared the ***t out of him (aka the 'hostile environment'). Hilarious.

Other than that, I'd appreciate it if he could elaborate why he thinks saturated fat is a better fuel source than glucose and share whatever this "light at the end of the tunnel" is because I think he has some interesting thoughts.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Spiritual narcissism? The ego is valueless, guys.

 

[Nicholas]

I clicked though Edwards google+ and found his review of a local barber shop:

https://plus.google.com/+EdwardEdmonds/reviews

"I've been to this "barber shop" two times since I've moved to the Albany area. I'm prior USAF and I'm used to military barbers taking their time to really work on the fade with military haircuts. It happens that black barbers in my experience do it the best. Which these folks do well. However, the first time I went to this shop the guy did a o.k. job, I could tell he was struggling with what is a simple hair cut for a white guy, short on the sides a little longer on top. High and tight but not so tight. Though he struggled he seemed to be really trying to make me happy. I value that. However, the second time, I questioned whether or not the guy had actually been to barber school. It was a terrible hair cut. Once again the fade was right, but he destroyed the top. As he was struggling I said just take it all off with the longest setting on the buzzer. You know I walk into a barber and I expect that a good hair cut is something every customer wants. If you can't cut the hair of a white guy, then say so, have a little man hood and be honest and say hey we don't have a lot of experience with cutting your type of hair perhaps you might want to try another place. I'm fine with that. What is worse is that the first guy spoke hardly any English and he did a o.k. job; he had vision of what would look good. The second guy spoke clear English and it was just terrible. A good business is one that is honest with their customers."

Wow. Very strange for someone who purports to be an open minded anti-establishment kind of person.

A few words to describe Edward would be elitist, entitled, hipster, virtual validation seeker.

He's also a saturated fat dogmatist and anti-sugar propagandist, but that doesn't really matter. What matters is this:

Edward suffers from what many us who are into health/nutrition do, and that is we think people actually care. We're fooled into thinking this. It can be seen in the time spent writing a blog like he does, or even me writing this right now. We don't have any friends or family who are into nutrition as much as we are so we resort to the internet to find some like minded people. Danny Roddy once posted a picture of his name tag that the Red Cross gave him for donating blood, and in the comments one of his good friends called him a "freak." A friendly joke but as the saying goes, a lot of truth is said in jest, meaning, his friend really did think he was a freak for going out of his way just to donate blood for Iron-dumping purposes. Danny also said that he created the DR Weblog Facebook page because he wanted to stop "bugging" his friends and family with annoying posts about nutrition and health. But even if we have some kind of internet interaction with people who share our passion, it's still just digital. The internet is just digital 1's and 0's. There is a major lack of real human interaction with sharing something that we're passionate about. All this talk that Edward and many people write about "the system" means noting. It's futile. People don't care. Nothing will change. I donated to OTBOAT and I'm really excited for it but I will not be surprised if it does not make Harvard change their recommendation for polyunsaturated fats. All we have is ourselves and the choices we make. There are no guarantees. There's just living in the day.

Edward, you should be smart enough to not equate an interest/passion in health with a "religion." Religion is defined as the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power and nutrition is...not that. If I am treating Peatarianism like a religion then please also go tell the guy who holds the Guinness Book of World Records for the largest collection of Super Soakers that's he's treating squirt guns like a religion:

Funny, he kind of looks like Edward:

http://www.wcnews.com/chrisreid/supersoakers.html

you didn't understand his article on cultishness. but at least you got to write all of this. have you read any or all of his posts?

 

[Nicholas]

to be honest, i don't really understand quite a bit of what he is talking about in his blog (though i'm sure i could if i took the time)....but what struck me is his definition of addiction:

"An addiction can loosely be defined as a failure of a substance to solve the underlying problem of restoring respiration."

tying this idea into his other posts on fructose, caffeine, saturated fat, crabtree effect, etc. it really resonated with me this thinking i have been having that while my diet which is fairly high carb might be producing respiration - it is incredibly sensitive - almost fickle in doing so - requires CONSTANT maintenance....kind of like in the same way that (seems rather old-school now) "pro-thyroid" foods (aka typical Peat recommendations) seem to have a very real temporary effect that has to constantly be upheld. I don't know that a carb-leaning diet is necessarily damaging - but i have been wondering lately if it doesn't really support true oxidative metabolism (knowing also that the sum total of everything determines oxidative metabolism, not just your carb standing). for me, at least. or maybe it is simply that i have had other macronutrients OFF.

As i was reading a lot of his stuff i did (uncomfortably) begin to realize dogmas within myself regarding how things MUST work - authoritative platforms in my own mind. The biggest dogma i have in my mind is: fruit is king. there were some other dogmas, too - but really it all coming back to making the body a mindless slave - like you have to doubt certain feelings you have. these things can get so deep-rooted and you think you've made a lot of progress in getting untangled from suffocating protocols.

so...with the fruit: i really don't like it. i mean, it makes me feel good in many ways but my gut says i don't like it - there's a confusion there. And rather than get more complex, i began to simply analyze my diet and highlight the confusions - the places that are confident and certain and the areas that are not certain or are hard to comunicate what's off. the following foods are foods that create absolutely no confusion to my gut (though my mind may be confused by it): [items marked with asterisk are not typical to my current diet or are categorized differently]

butter*
cream*
milk
eggs
OJ
salt
onions
liver
cherries
beef-based proteins & cartilage

that's it.

these foods are pretty confident to my gut as well - but they seem more sporadic and maybe not conducive to daily "peace":

roots*
ocean life*
fatty cheese
yogurt as a cooking tool/acid taste*
crispy vegetables: herbs, sprouts, carrots, peas, radishes, cucumber

these foods are almost completely confusing while i recognize that they can also create "peace" as well but far less frequent than the above list and even farther less frequent than my first list:

sugar & honey*
fruit in general*
apple juice*
coffee*
super ripe peaches off the tree on a breezy Georgia summmer day
bread
zucchini

so while i don't think that Edward's blog is pushing saturated fat any more than Peat is pushing carbs (i think they both recognize that every macronutrient has its place) - there is a very interesting disagreement on what structure is - which everyone should read if they haven't.

 

[4peatssake]

Even if Edward had "good ideas" I can't bring myself to read and try to find them because my experience reading his views is terribly unpleasant, largely the result of what others have mentioned.

That barber post. Just wow.

 

[Zachs]

Edwards blog is what made me shift away from a very high carb, low fat diet to a predominantly saturated fat diet. Although I still use a lot more sugar than he thinks is optimal (only lactose), I have found that fat is not detrimental to health even in high amounts. His writing did free me a bit from some of my dogmas and in turn improved my health and allowed me to look more critically at things I was eating that were not agreeing with me, mainly fruit and starch.

I agree with the above though that his latest post was very hypocritical.

 

[4peatssake]

Edwards blog is what made me shift away from a very high carb, low fat diet to a predominantly saturated fat diet. Although I still use a lot more sugar than he thinks is optimal (only lactose), I have found that fat is not detrimental to health even in high amounts. His writing did free me a bit from some of my dogmas and in turn improved my health and allowed me to look more critically at things I was eating that were not agreeing with me, mainly fruit and starch.

I agree with the above though that his latest post was very hypocritical.

Perhaps you can filter the good bits that have helped you, as you just did here.
I kid.

 

[Zachs]

Even if Edward had "good ideas" I can't bring myself to read and try to find them because my experience reading his views is terribly unpleasant, largely the result of what others have mentioned.

That barber post. Just wow.

This is the same irrational reasoning that leads paleo dogmatists to completely ignore Peats writing because they hear rumors that his diet is nothing but a fructose free for all. Edward has a lot of interesting ideas and I truly wish there were more people with interesting ideas like him starting up blogs or continuing them (Andrew kim, Pranarupa, etc). These are the kinds of thinkers we need to move past conventional wisdom.

 

[4peatssake]

Even if Edward had "good ideas" I can't bring myself to read and try to find them because my experience reading his views is terribly unpleasant, largely the result of what others have mentioned.

That barber post. Just wow.

This is the same irrational reasoning that leads paleo dogmatists to completely ignore Peats writing because they hear rumors that his diet is nothing but a fructose free for all. Edward has a lot of interesting ideas and I truly wish there were more people with interesting ideas like him starting up blogs or continuing them (Andrew kim, Pranarupa, etc). These are the kinds of thinkers we need to move past conventional wisdom.

Well it may seem like "irrational reasoning" to you but I'm not about to spend my time reading the ideas of someone with a level of consciousness that is comprised of disdain and judgement of others. The level of one's consciousness matters to me, not just a "good idea."

This is simply not an individual whose views I'm interested in, for the reasons previously mentioned.
We each get to choose for ourselves whose ideas we resonate with.

Same holds true for people who don't care for my views or yours for that matter.

There's no dogma in that. It's called free will choice.

 

[Zachs]

Nah its called ignorance, man. You said yourself you havnt even read his work. You made a preconceived judgement of him based on other people's accounts and a review he wrote of a barbershop.

Your right though, that's your choice to do.

 

[4peatssake]

Nah its called ignorance, man. You said yourself you havnt even read his work. You made a preconceived judgement of him based on other people's accounts and a review he wrote of a barbershop.

Your right though, that's your choice to do.

Your assumptions are incorrect. I am not ignorant of him nor his views. The barbershop post simply confirmed my decision.

 

[pboy]

one thing ive noticed is that inherently digestion and mood are improved by and related to a few things, which can shed light. Obviously bad food or disagreeable food isn't good, but we should (can be) more resilient than a lot of us probably are currently. It seems the intestines are connected to the eyes, the more your eyes are in scan mode, distance mode, like even driving, just anything that has a sense of expansiveness, forebrain thought, adventure, relaxes the intestines...its like you can feel them dropping and didn't know there was a tension there. So inherently being on the compute all the time and indoors, small rooms, especially if you're alone or just kinda bored or not interacting, its bad for digestion. Also, being of a comedic playful, funny demeanor even when discussing scientific things, theres a way to still be logical and do the work but just not being so serious, just making fun of things...playful and comedic interacting with other people, acting a fool even, tremendously helps digestion. So being of serious demeanor, indoors, focusing on the PC, is potentially one of the worst things for digestion...obviously with perfect diet you can still be pretty good but its still not ideal. Another overlooked thing, is really that your state of groundedness in life is really what promotes all the above good things, and helps digestion a lot. Like if you are established, got money, and have days where basically you aren't worried about mundane survival things, you automatically like...that's living basically, everything else is struggling, and digestion takes a hit. Stress, anything that makes your analytical mind work for more than brief moments, well...you can actually be very analytical but if youre comfortable, its not like a rushed necessity, its more a higher insight stream that's fun and open, its ok...but being in a state where you are having to be very analytical in a serious, necessary or rushed way, also like clenches the lower gut

bad food will do its damage regardless, but even so, in a better state, it can be pretty much something that doesn't effect you on a soul level

W & pufas makes a good point above, which is that when people make this like their whole life rather than just a part of it to make lil progress on here and there in the flow of a fun life, its inherently like...telling the body basically in so many words that your friends or people you interact with, are 'recovering' or 'sick' or 'looking for answers so we can then live' and it kinda traps you in that state. The second you were actually just having a good life and food wasn't a p rimary focus, to be considered, but not a primary thing...you'd suddenly not even have any desire to come online anymore. I notice that a lot, the days I go out and do fun stuff and interact with lotta people, when I come back into my apt it seems like im coming back into a jail cell in a sense, and before that sets in, when my mood is still doped up, coming on a forum like this or just anything of the sort seems like a joke or like 'omg I was doing that for so long' basically thinking how it pailed in comparison, not even close, to simply going out and doing something fun. Also when im making plans with friends and kinda rushing, but its all for fun, ill get in quick whatever food I have, not go for perfection ...still go for the best I can but im not like having anxiety over it, it doesn't really matter and I just flow through the day and kinda have forgotten about it once im out and about. Also if you're not having a craft, a sport, a life, its extremely hard to actually tell when or if you're hungry genuinely and what you're craving and all that. Being at home on the PC and not really actively spending energy on some kind of enjoyable pursuit really throws off all signals of whats going on in your body, theyre like dead and asleep and sluggish

someone like Edward was probably not getting any results in his life, or on forums, so rather than seek to do more active enjoyable pursuits in life...which was probably the answer, he (and many, many others online in all tyeps of forums) think that they must be doing something wrong with the diet or whatever their forum speaks of, and then try to like start a blog or write a book or something...kinda just trying to gouge more energy out of such people and forums, but not really actually getting to the point

ultimately with diet, it should be something that becomes simplified and efficient, so its then just something you make a habit out of and have as much free time for everything else in life, at which point its not really that necessary to talk about. If friends and fam give you a hard time...they wont unless you act real serious or butt hurt about it, if you just explain real simply like ah that just digests better for me so I can be 100%, or that burns my stomach, or something simple and play it off like its not a big deal and keep your active focus on the moment having fun, no one actually cares. They just get upset if either your diet prevents you from interacting with them (theyd rather you just bring your milk and OJ and still hang out than let it be a barrier) or if you seem egotistical and paternalistic / preachy / irritated about it. And if some people are enthused about it you can nerd out with them

 

[4peatssake]

Good post pboy. Much more poetic than me.
It's the entire being that's important and one's level of consciousness.
I don't care to participate in anything that doesn't uplift me, expand consciousness and move me in the direction I wish to go.

 

[Nicholas]

"It's the entire being that's important and one's level of consciousness."

Edmonds & Peat have this perspective as well. Much of the world has this perspective too, just not as microscopically i'd guess.

 

[Zachs]

Interesting because many of his posts did just that, expandedy conciousness and helped me move in the direction in which I needed to go. I just don't see the egotistic attitude you guys are. Being confident in one's own ideas is something I admire in a person and putting it out there for others to jive or not jive on, even more so. I'm wholly glad there are people like Matt Stone, Ray Peat, Edward, Danny, etc ,etc who continue to share knowledge, right or wrong, even with great resistance and attacks on their character, because they feel compelled to help others.