Generative Energy #22: A Bioenergetic View Of Heart Disease And Stroke (with Haidut)

[Dan W]

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#22: A Bioenergetic View of Heart Disease and Stroke

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[snowboard111]

Hey, great podcast as usual!

I had a question pop in my head regarding cholesterol while listening the podcast. I haven’t search for it and maybe my thinking is too mechanical (as one part vs the others) but anyway…

Given how cholesterol is elevated in both hypothyroidism and heart condition would it implied that both are interdependent? I think I can remember Ray Peat saying they goes together...

First scenario: You have inflammation -> Cholesterol level goes up because body prioritize heart/vessel/etc -> Cholesterol is less available for youth/steroid hormones -> Reduce ability to handle stress which was already present -> Thyroid problems start -> Systemic problems proceed (elevated cortisol, estrogen, etc)

Second scenario: You have bad thyroid function -> Cells can’t handle a certain degree of inflammation -> Inflammation start -> Need cholesterol -> Less available for youth/steroid hormones -> And the cascade of problems start…

I'm more than likely missing something here but given how young heart problems can be observe in peoples, I wonder if it all start with heart problems, thyroid problems or both?

Thanks

 

[Tarmander]

I'm glad they touched on salt. I think a lot of the edema and estrogen symptoms that get attributed to estrogen are actually just not enough salt.

 

[Blossom]

This interview reminds me of how fortunate we are to have this community and all the bright, dedicated and passionate people who contribute to getting Peat's ideas out into the world. It's really pathetic that medicine is so far behind the science and thus a real tragedy that lives are shortened and jeopardized because of it. All I can say is we are especially lucky to have access to such simple yet profound life saving and enhancing information. I've been around countless people living with various forms of chronic heart disease and it's such a shame that they could probably get on a path to true healing or at least live a better quality and higher functioning life if only a few basics were understood and embraced by the medical/pharmaceutical industry. Rather than concentrate on the seemingly bleak situation on the ground I'm going to choose to focus on my gratitude that we have access to this knowledge. It's a start and a very important one. Thanks Danny Roddy, @haidut, @Dan Wich, and @charlie for all your contributions to spreading the information we have learned from Peat's work.

 

[haidut]

Hey, great podcast as usual!

I had a question pop in my head regarding cholesterol while listening the podcast. I haven’t search for it and maybe my thinking is too mechanical (as one part vs the others) but anyway…

Given how cholesterol is elevated in both hypothyroidism and heart condition would it implied that both are interdependent? I think I can remember Ray Peat saying they goes together...

First scenario: You have inflammation -> Cholesterol level goes up because body prioritize heart/vessel/etc -> Cholesterol is less available for youth/steroid hormones -> Reduce ability to handle stress which was already present -> Thyroid problems start -> Systemic problems proceed (elevated cortisol, estrogen, etc)

Second scenario: You have bad thyroid function -> Cells can’t handle a certain degree of inflammation -> Inflammation start -> Need cholesterol -> Less available for youth/steroid hormones -> And the cascade of problems start…

I'm more than likely missing something here but given how young heart problems can be observe in peoples, I wonder if it all start with heart problems, thyroid problems or both?

Thanks

Both scenarios are likely correct. The key question of course is why is there inflammation to start with, since it is the inflammation that leads to the pathology and various scenarios? Well, it is due to the PUFA in our bodies, which gets converted into the various inflammatory mediators by enzymes like COX and LOX. Thus, no PUFA means no inflammation and no need to repair anything by rushing white blood cells and cholesterol to various vessel walls. Remove PUFA and cholesterols will be used for steroid synthesis and protection from viruses rather than plugging holes in walls.

 

[haidut]

I'm glad they touched on salt. I think a lot of the edema and estrogen symptoms that get attributed to estrogen are actually just not enough salt.

Excellent point. Low CO2 also leads to edema and raising it can help even in cases of low sodium.

 

[haidut]

This interview reminds me of how fortunate we are to have this community and all the bright, dedicated and passionate people who contribute to getting Peat's ideas out into the world. It's really pathetic that medicine is so far behind the science and thus a real tragedy that lives are shortened and jeopardized because of it. All I can say is we are especially lucky to have access to such simple yet profound life saving and enhancing information. I've been around countless people living with various forms of chronic heart disease and it's such a shame that they could probably get on a path to true healing or at least live a better quality and higher functioning life if only a few basics were understood and embraced by the medical/pharmaceutical industry. Rather than concentrate on the seemingly bleak situation on the ground I'm going to choose to focus on my gratitude that we have access to this knowledge. It's a start and a very important one. Thanks Danny Roddy, @haidut, @Dan Wich, and @charlie for all your contributions to spreading the information we have learned from Peat's work.

Thanks Blossom! It is inspiring to be a part of such a lively and open-minded group of people as the ones on this forum. Btw, I am noticing more and more other forums are "borrowing" our discussions and slowly starting to change course of various bad dietary habits.

 

[Dan W]

Thanks Danny Roddy, @haidut, @Dan Wich, and @charlie for all your contributions to spreading the information we have learned from Peat's work.

Well and not to mention @Blossom, @Giraffe, @tara and all the other forum contributors.

 

[Ledo]

Haidut and of course Danny R,

That was a most excellent discourse, thank you very much.

Do you know if NO as described can spike into an unhealthy range in the short term and be discernible from a symptomatic point of view, i.e., angina or other type of pain? Also maybe including erections not related to libido?

Or is high NO more of a long term "silent killer" which stays at a relatively high level for a long time doing its damage?

Is there any direct cause (simple) or just a manifestation of stress as you described in the talk and do the regular peaty stress busters bring it down?

Thanks again.

 

[haidut]

Haidut and of course Danny R,

That was a most excellent discourse, thank you very much.

Do you know if NO as described can spike into an unhealthy range in the short term and be discernible from a symptomatic point of view, i.e., angina or other type of pain? Also maybe including erections not related to libido?

Or is high NO more of a long term "silent killer" which stays at a relatively high level for a long time doing its damage?

Is there any direct cause (simple) or just a manifestation of stress as you described in the talk and do the regular peaty stress busters bring it down?

Thanks again.

NO is a bit like prolactin - it can rise due to acute stress and as such can be an acute biomarker and it can also be elevated long term as an indicator of poor metabolism. Both cases are due to lack of proper CO2 production, but obviously if it is chronic it is more important since it indicates that the organism may have adapted to running on stress as a default mode. NO also rises acutely in infectious disease and is one of the main tools against pathogens in the body. In that respect, it is probably beneficial, but again, you don't want it to stay chronically elevated.