Generative Energy #26: Talking With Ray Peat #2: Carbon Dioxide, NAD+/NADH, Antibiotics, Coffee

[cantstoppeating]

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#26: Talking with Ray Peat #2: Carbon Dioxide, NAD+/NADH, Antibiotics, Coffee

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[cantstoppeating]

Ray Peat: The industry has gone towards profit and cheapness and vitamin E is no longer anything like it was 70 or 80 years ago. The stuff I used in the lab reacted with ubiquinone to produce a black color. I tried that with various more recent types of vitamin E and it didn't work, so we know that they are taking out different fractions of vitamin E and the wax-like highly-saturated fatty acids, I think, are a part of why the old vitamin E in the 1930s and 1940s was so much more therapeutic than the more recent vitamin E studies' that showed it's really nothing but an antioxidant that doesn't have any of the therapeutic effects it did 60 years ago.

@haidut I think you mentioned elsewhere that you were looking into producing a vitamin E supplement that's similar to the type that was used in the 1930s. Are you still planning to produce such a supplement?

 

[Amazoniac]

Nice that you're around!

 

[milk_lover]

@haidut I think you mentioned elsewhere that you were looking into producing a vitamin E supplement that's similar to the type that was used in the 1930s. Are you still planning to produce such a supplement?

I have been waiting for that vitamin E before I make one big order. I am very much interested in knowing the answer for this question. Is 95% tocopherols from, for example, Health Natura and LotionCrafter be similar to the vitamin E that was used in the 1930s?

 

[mirc12354]

I have been waiting for that vitamin E before I make one big order. I am very much interested in knowing the answer for this question. Is 95% tocopherols from, for example, Health Natura and LotionCrafter be similar to the vitamin E that was used in the 1930s?

Me too.

 

[Wilfrid]

In a private email exchange, Ray mentioned to me the use of wheat germ oil extracted vitamin E, back in the sixties, in his experimental studies.
I found an article about various source of tocopherols and their manufacturing process in the 30's, note that the authors mentioned some " impurities " left during the preparation from some vitamin E ´sources. I firmly believe that kind of manufactured vitamin E was still widely used and sold up to the end of the 70's.

" The chemistry of vitamin E. Tocopherols from various sources. "
http://www.jbc.org/content/122/1/99.full.pdf

RP: "... I think the color in the original vitamin E preparations was the result of a charge transfer complex between small amounts of vitamin K ( ? ) and tocopherols. The impurities, including the very long chain saturated fatty acids and alcohols, were probably important for some of the effects originally studied. "

 

[burtlancast]

so we know that they are taking out different fractions of vitamin E and the wax-like highly-saturated fatty acids, I think, are a part of why the old vitamin E in the 1930s and 1940s was so much more therapeutic than the more recent vitamin E studies' that showed it's really nothing but an antioxidant that doesn't have any of the therapeutic effects it did 60 years ago.

How about then Vit E dissolved in coconut oil ?

 

[Tarmander]

This was a GREAT podcast. It didn't bother with the Peat origin stories, just right into the chemistry, the electrons, the awesome sauce

 

[narouz]

This was a GREAT podcast. It didn't bother with the Peat origin stories...

The Herb Doctors stumble and fumble around so much with that at the beginning every time (not to mention that crazy woman who they let call in every show). Sheesh. Looking forward to this one. Thanks can't stop for posting!

 

[haidut]

How about then Vit E dissolved in coconut oil ?

Bingo. That's exactly why MitoLipin uses fully saturated fat as the solvent. Until I find a scalable source of wheat germ derived vitamin E, it is the closest we can get to the real thing

 

[haidut]

Ray Peat: The industry has gone towards profit and cheapness and vitamin E is no longer anything like it was 70 or 80 years ago. The stuff I used in the lab reacted with ubiquinone to produce a black color. I tried that with various more recent types of vitamin E and it didn't work, so we know that they are taking out different fractions of vitamin E and the wax-like highly-saturated fatty acids, I think, are a part of why the old vitamin E in the 1930s and 1940s was so much more therapeutic than the more recent vitamin E studies' that showed it's really nothing but an antioxidant that doesn't have any of the therapeutic effects it did 60 years ago.

@haidut I think you mentioned elsewhere that you were looking into producing a vitamin E supplement that's similar to the type that was used in the 1930s. Are you still planning to produce such a supplement?

I am trying to get a vendor to produce it in large quantities. It is possible to make some at home for personal use but to sell as a supplement would require an actual industrial process and facilities. Even though wheat germ oil is the richest source of vitamin E, it is still a tiny quantity as a percentage. So, it will have to come from as by-product of some agricultural vendor.

 

[haidut]

I have been waiting for that vitamin E before I make one big order. I am very much interested in knowing the answer for this question. Is 95% tocopherols from, for example, Health Natura and LotionCrafter be similar to the vitamin E that was used in the 1930s?

Have not forgotten about it. See other post in response to the same question.

 

[haidut]

Me too.

Working on it. Finding a vendor that can produce a lot of it is not easy. Most of them are stuck with soy as a source for good, and refuse to even consider extracting from wheat germ oil.

 

[achillea]

Narouz said"]The Herb Doctors stumble and fumble around so much with that at the beginning every time (not to mention that crazy woman who they let call in every show). Sheesh. Looking forward to this one. Thanks can't stop for posting!"

. Andrew and Sarah have to set the stage for the excellence of Dr. Peat. Every time he talks about his past we learn something and every question even if silly or naïve, can be a learning for everyone.. Kudos to Dr. Peat and the Herb Doctors for their kindness. She is like that Aunt, say Aunt Harriet who would question in the manner she does. Dr. Peat has time for her and so do we.

 

[burtlancast]

I have been waiting for that vitamin E before I make one big order. I am very much interested in knowing the answer for this question. Is 95% tocopherols from, for example, Health Natura and LotionCrafter be similar to the vitamin E that was used in the 1930s?

Why not buy some ubiquinone and try mixing it and see if it reacts ?

 

[Tarmander]

Every time he talks about his past we learn something and every question even if silly or naïve, can be a learning for everyone..

Dude, no, this is not true. This is some guru worship crap right here. Get away from that attitude, it's gotta be pragmatic.

 

[burtlancast]

Dude, no, this is not true. This is some guru worship crap right here. Get away from that attitude, it's gotta be pragmatic.

This is from the recent Kim Greenhouse transcribed interview:
"Yah, in 1968 I decided to go back to graduate school in biology. I had been working in linguistics and other areas, and I decided that to understand anything, it would help to understand how the brain works. But then, I found that the brain researchers were just as dogmatic as the people in linguistics. I found that the least dogmatic area in biology was reproductive physiology and aging research, because there were so few people getting big money to do it."

It shows that Ray's a linguist by trade; he landed in the scientific world kind of by coincidence. He then chose to remain in that field.

That's the first time he puts it this way.

Or maybe does his version change from week to week ?

 

[Kasper]

So basically, Ray Peat says that because vitamin E in the past was not pure, it had better effects?

So doesnt that just mean that Ray Peat overrates vitamin E, and that we should value higher those impurities?

 

[lindsay]

Yay! Something to listen to on the way to work :) I've been waiting for a new episode on Generative Energy forever. Thanks for sharing :)

 

[milk_lover]

Why not buy some ubiquinone and try mixing it and see if it reacts ?

That would be a good experiment to do. Only if I had those vitamin E sources. I am inquiring before I pay a lot of money for them+shipment.