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Multiple Sclerosis (MS) Can Be Caused Quite Easily By Change In Hormones

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Sep 13, 2016.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    If you ask a neurologist she/he will tell you that nobody knows the cause of MS, and if you ask about the role of hormones the doctor will probably give you blank stare and flatly deny that they have a causative or therapeutic role (except for cortisol as acute treatment). Ray, on the other hand, has written extensively on the role of various hormones and especially estrogen in the pathology of MS and their causative role.
    This study shows rapid development of MS after surgery to remove a tumor overproducing cortisol and androgens (T and androstenedione (A)). In metabolic medicine circles it is well know that androgens are protective factors for MS and a small unpublished trial in Romania showed that DHT can completely stop the disease in males. The Romanian study was based on this animal study.
    Dihydrotestosterone as a Protective Agent in Chronic Experimental Autoimmune Encephalomyelitis. - PubMed - NCBI

    Rheumatoid arthritis and Lupus are other "autoimmune" diseases characterized by low androgens, and trials with DHEA for both have been very promising. If the trials had used stronger androgens like DHT or androstanedione they would have been blockbuster success but I'd settle with at least a change in the right direction for now.
    Are women with Sjögren's syndrome androgen-deficient? - PubMed - NCBI
    The etiology of rheumatoid arthritis. - PubMed - NCBI
    Plasma dehydroepiandrosterone, dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate and androsterone sulphate levels and their interaction with plasma proteins in rheum... - PubMed - NCBI
    Anyways, after surgery to remove the tumor and consequent normalization of levels of cortisol, T and A the woman developed MS after 6 months. Now, given that the tumor was also overproducing cortisol we cannot say definitively that the lowered androgens was the cause of MS development. But the authors think that at the very least the link between hormones and MS is quite obviously causative.

    A unique case of a benign adrenocortical tumor with triple secretion of cortisol, androgens, and aldosterone: development of multiple sclerosis aft... - PubMed - NCBI

    "...We present a 39-year old female with a benign adrenal tumor characterized by autonomous secretion of cortisol, androgens, and aldosterone. The patient presented with a 4-year history of hypertension and severe hirsutism. Baseline investigations revealed elevated testosterone, androstendione, and 17OH progesterone with normal levels of dehydroepi androsterone sulfate. CT of the adrenals revealed a 2.5 x 3.0 cm tumor with characteristics of an adenoma on the left adrenal gland. Pelvic ultrasound was normal. Further investigations revealed suppressed basal ACTH levels, loss of diurnal rhythm of cortisol, and failure to suppress on low dose dexamethasone suppression test, suggesting autonomous cortisol secretion by the tumor. She had an exaggerated response of 17OH progesterone to ACTH, implying reduced 21-hydroxylase activity. An elevated plasma aldosterone concentration to plasma renin activity ratio was suggestive of hyperaldosteronism, which was confirmed by failure of aldosterone to suppress to a formal saline infusion test. Complete clinical and biochemical remission of the disease was observed after left adrenalectomy. Histology confirmed the presence of an adrenocortical adenoma. The patient developed multiple sclerosis 6 months after the operation. The flare-up of an autoimmune disease (multiple sclerosis) postoperatively could be coincidental or possibly related to the high normalization of the high cortisol levels acting as a precipitating factor."
     
  2. nullredvector

    nullredvector Member

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    What was the dose used in the Romanian study, or the HED in the animal?
     
  3. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    The human study used 50mg AFAIK and the animal study above used a HED of 0.7mg/kg, so also about 50mg for an adult weighing 70kg.
     
  4. nullredvector

    nullredvector Member

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    thanks @haidut !
    im going to look for more information on suppression, since IIRC you wrote that 25mg would have minor/insignificant suppression. I think 25mg was the physiological daily production. Is fear of suppression kind of like what Peat says about exogenous thyroid? That normal production should resume very rapidly (~48hrs). Im about 130kg (6'6'' - probably GH/pituitary in childhood), that doesnt mean my normal production is double?
     
  5. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    Is there a link to the Romanain study @haidut ?
     
  6. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    It's unpublished, as I mentioned above. But many doctors in Eastern Europe prescribe TRT (off-label) as part of MS treatment for males. It is undeniable that males with MS look much more effeminate than the healthier males, and are often hypogonadic. Now, if the medical profession got out of its idea that estrogen is a female hormone and as such it's OK for it to be elevated in females we may have seen the same treatment in females. But I suspect we'll have to wait to see a change in that thinking.
     
  7. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    i asked because unpublished usually means not in a peer reviewed publication -- but often there is a paper that can be read...very interesting though!
     
  8. Peat's sake

    Peat's sake New Member

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    Hi......long time lurker first time poster here. I actually discovered Ray Peat philosophies after 27 years of doing low carb. I think I have had a brush with MS (my doctor thinks so too) but I have not wanted to do the MRI and testing to find out for insurance reasons. About 6 months ago, my doctor thought I could use natural progesterone supplementation. I am 47 year old female, and was experiencing fatigue, adrenal fatigue, low thyroid that replacement didn't seem to help, arthritis, and lipedema that made weight loss impossible even tho I was in chronic ketosis and ate less than 1000 a day. My doctor follows traditional holistic practices, and I have been into supplements and alternative medicine exclusively for years. Three days after starting natural progesterone pills, inserted vaginally (I think it was prometrium), I woke up at night with my left eye feeling odd, as if it was asleep. Then over the next few days, I started have tingling in my pinky and index fingers, and my left pinky toe. Then weird pin prick feelings everywhere, then I started waking up with a weak left arm and left leg. As the day progressed, the weakness would lessen. I started having trouble typing at work during the mornings on my left hand. I was experiencing extreme sudden depression and overwhelming fatigue like I had never felt before. I took mythyl b12 shots thinking it was anemia, and it didn't help. Finally after about a month I suspected the prometrium. I stopped taking it, and went back to the doctor. She suspected MS, and that the progesterone had somehow triggered it. I started researching everything about MS, tried the diet by Terry Wahls for MS (it didn't help at all as it was basically a low carb keto diet with a emphasis on 9 cups of vegetables a day), and thankfully finally stumbled onto this website about 6 weeks ago. I am slowly weaning off a low carb diet, and am treating with haidut's tyromix, niacinimide, LDN, lysine,doxylamine succinate at night, and aspirin. I have lost about 20 lbs eating gelatin, orange juice, beef or white fish once a day, raw carrots, and avoiding PUFA-in the last 6 weeks. I can't believe after 25 years of trying to lose weight by religiously following a low carb high fat diet that I can eat some sugar and start losing weight this drastically. However, I am still experiencing intermittent MS exacerbations, and mostly it happens the week before my period. It seems paradoxical that progesterone, which is supposed to help alleviate MS, triggered it initially in my case. What kind of perfect storm does anyone think might have caused this? I know progesterone is good, and want to start supplementing pregnenalone soon, but I am afraid to tinker with hormones now. I would love suggestions on this. I would also love suggestions on any ways I might be missing that would cure the MS symptoms for good. I am tanning 2 times a week with Mercola tanning bed, and using an infrared sauna 2 or 3 times a week. Thanks to everyone in this wonderful community that contribute to this body of knowledge. I feel like you collectively have given me new hope.
     
  9. HDD

    HDD Member

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    @Peat's sake I was diagnosed with ms in 1988. My worst symptoms seemed to be at high estrogen/low thyroid times. From reading Peat and this forum, it seems that progesterone knocks estrogen out of the cell to be eliminated. Women that have an increase in estrogen symptoms from taking progesterone usually need higher doses at first. Using thyroid before supplementing progesterone can also prevent symptoms since thyroid will lower your estrogen. How long have you been taking tyromix? Are you tracking temperature and pulse? If I notice any "ms" symptoms, I pay closer attention to my diet and I will use various supplements. I am not very consistent in supplementing, so a little numbness or pain gets my attention. Things I take now: t3, progesterone, vitamin d, a, k, energin (b's), aspirin, Benadryl. I have used many other Peaty supps over the past few years. Pregnenolone and progesterone are good for helping with higher stress. I used to take Epsom salt baths regularly, I supplement magnesium glycinate on occasion. I really don't consider myself as having ms now. I believe my symptoms were/are low thyroid/estrogen related. My worst symptoms since finding Ray Peat were left leg and arm weakness and pain. I had not been eating well for several days and the weather was cold. I took my temperature in the afternoon and it was 96.4. This verified that my ms was thyroid related. You are on the right track for your health! Have you read Ray Peat's MS articles?
     
  10. HDD

    HDD Member

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    @Peat's sake
    "The use of antihistamines (histamine-1 blockers) such as Benadryl has been associated with a greatly reduced risk (0.2) of developing MS (Alonso, et al., 2006). Benadryl blocks histamine's stimulating effect on prolactin secretion (Rivier and Vale, 1977)."

    I cannot find the source of this quote. I'm pretty sure it's from Peat.
     
  11. Peat's sake

    Peat's sake New Member

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    I have read most of the articles on his website and a lot of his interviews. It is such a change from what I thought was healthy all these years, and I am still wrapping my head around it. I have been on tyromix and tyronene in various combinations for a couple of weeks and have morning temps above 98 degrees now, and pulse usually above 80, so thyroid looking better for sure. Maybe it just takes time for all the healing to happen. Just read a post in here about biotin and MS and will be adding it as soon as it arrives from bulk supplements. I have the estroban and the energin on order now and will start it by the end of the week. I am hopeful this will be the cure, as all three of my children have endocrine issues, oldest has severe idiopathic edema and an actual allergy to estrogen. She is doing all the same treatment along with me and seeing benefit. Son has been a type 1 diabetis since age 12, and I just started him on the tyromix a week ago. Youngest has anxiety and ADD that started around at puberty. I think all our issues point to thyroid and estrogen problems. Ray Peat had been the answer to prayers for us, as we have all done everything the traditional holistic community recommended with zero results. Peaty stuff seems to be magic for us.
     
  12. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    Benadryl has a profound drowsiness effect in legitimately everyone I've ever asked or heard of. And some people claim it gave them a ringing of the ears that never ceased even months after taking it.
     
  13. kayumochi

    kayumochi Member

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    Dr. Cicero Galli Coimbra has been treating MS with massive doses of D3 for quite some time and from I understand, remission is not uncommon ...
     
  14. HDD

    HDD Member

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    I only take it at bedtime and I've never had (nor other family members) any ringing in ears. I don't use it continually.

    @kayumochi
    I've been aware of the vitamin D connection for many years and have religiously sunbathed for that reason. I just recently started supplementing vitamin D since I'm not wanting any more sun damage.
     
  15. Peat's sake

    Peat's sake New Member

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    I read that doxylamine succinate was a Peaty antihistamine to try, so I started with it. Brand name is Unisom (a sleep aid) and it does help me sleep. I wonder if there are special benefits associated with benedryl for MS and I should switch to it? Honestly, ringing in my ears occasionally was one of the minor MS symptoms I have experienced. I have never heard of ear ringing associated with benedryl.
    Regarding the D3 supplemenentation, I know it is in the Estroban, and if I am tanning I hope to get enough between the 2.
     
  16. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    ?
    ?
     
  17. kayumochi

    kayumochi Member

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  18. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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  19. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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  20. teds

    teds Member

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    I know of 2x MS ppl who religiously avoid the sun b/c it triggers their MS symptoms.. interesting!
     
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