Mega Dosing Iodine = Bad, Destroys Thyroid Tissue Permanently

[BigChad]

I would consider discontinuing all that you're unsure about and start from scratch with a decent form of magnesium (there are various discussions on the forum), human doses of vitamins E and K (same), antidote C and increase the intake of trace minerals from foods. If your blood levels of venom D are high, it's worth keeping the equine doses of K for a while.

I'm not familiar with black cumin oil, but if you're dealing with oxidative stress, it might make it worse.

You must have missed the linked posted above.
A few hundred micrograms is nothing compared to what people get from diet (4 grams for example).

Perhaps selenized yeast stays on the market for being a leftover of living the stock that prefers this form for being much better than inorganic ones, yet cheaper than the purified selenomethionine. The content of selenomethionine is high nevertheless, but it can be unpredictable and often has undesirable forms as well.

- Selenomethionine and Selenium Yeast: Appropriate Forms of Selenium for Use in Infant Formulas and Nutritional Supplements

- Cautionary Tale / Eat Selenium

Spoiler

View attachment 14118

I understand but i believe there is a lot more methionine relative to Selenium? Like with magnesium glycinate theres 700mg glycine per 100mg elemental magnesium.

I can't use magnesium malate, citrate, threonate, and glycinate due to side effects, so my options are limited. Oxide doesnt absorb well, aspartate seems to cause no noticeable sides. I havent seen a good taurate anywhere, and currently, even for the last couple years, i seem to have trouble digesting eggs and taurine. Bloating, anything beyond 1 whole egg a day causes a skin rash on the face, bloating indigestion etc. Life extensions super selenium product caused oily skin and large red zits.

 

[BigChad]

What did you mean by this? Also what are your thoughts on selenium glycinate by albion minerals? I have a trace mineral product with zinc, selenium, chromium, manganese, molybdenum, boron all in traacs glycinate forms. As well as a separate traacs copper product

Perhaps selenized yeast stays on the market for being a leftover of living the stock that prefers this form for being much better than inorganic ones, yet cheaper than the purified selenomethionine. The content of selenomethionine is high nevertheless, but it can be unpredictable and often has undesirable forms as well.

 

[BigChad]

I would consider discontinuing all that you're unsure about and start from scratch with a decent form of magnesium (there are various discussions on the forum), human doses of vitamins E and K (same), antidote C and increase the intake of trace minerals from foods. If your blood levels of venom D are high, it's worth keeping the equine doses of K for a while.

I'm not familiar with black cumin oil, but if you're dealing with oxidative stress, it might make it worse.

You must have missed the linked posted above.
A few hundred micrograms is nothing compared to what people get from diet (4 grams for example).

Perhaps selenized yeast stays on the market for being a leftover of living the stock that prefers this form for being much better than inorganic ones, yet cheaper than the purified selenomethionine. The content of selenomethionine is high nevertheless, but it can be unpredictable and often has undesirable forms as well.

- Selenomethionine and Selenium Yeast: Appropriate Forms of Selenium for Use in Infant Formulas and Nutritional Supplements

- Cautionary Tale / Eat Selenium

Spoiler

View attachment 14118

Interesting article. Life extension claims selenomethionine, selenite, and selenocysteine are best. I've read something stating selenite has unique pharmacological effects.
This is the one i was considering but i may have to go with methionine.
https://www.amazon.com/Solgar-Selen...020ICGC#aw-udpv3-customer-reviews_feature_div

 

[Dave Clark]

Interesting article. Life extension claims selenomethionine, selenite, and selenocysteine are best. I've read something stating selenite has unique pharmacological effects.
This is the one i was considering but i may have to go with methionine.
https://www.amazon.com/Solgar-Selen...020ICGC#aw-udpv3-customer-reviews_feature_div

I usr the Life Extension selenium as well. It seems most experts feel that the methionine form is the safest, but there are studies showing the other forms are useful for certain conditions, etc. I am on the fence about it as well, and considered changing to the methionine form, but I need to research it some more. When I can't decide about something I often split the difference, take one type 4 days/week, and the other type the other three days, until I can make a decision. Experts and the science do not always agree, so it makes it difficult to sort out.

 

[BigChad]

I usr the Life Extension selenium as well. It seems most experts feel that the methionine form is the safest, but there are studies showing the other forms are useful for certain conditions, etc. I am on the fence about it as well, and considered changing to the methionine form, but I need to research it some more. When I can't decide about something I often split the difference, take one type 4 days/week, and the other type the other three days, until I can make a decision. Experts and the science do not always agree, so it makes it difficult to sort out.

That life extension product gave me acne, i think due to the cysteine form since ive never had that response with methionine nor selenite or selenate.

I suspect selenite somehow is a lot better than selenate but im unsure of why there would be such a difference.

Im thinking of getting methionine or just solgars brewers yeast sourced selenium. I dont have a yeast or gluten allergy so would it really matter if i got the yeast sourced selenium. Id imagine the amount of yeast in there is astronomically low compared to yeast or gluten food products... i also wonder if the yeast sourced selenium would be more beneficial in a hypothyroid state, possibly the yeast would be delivered to the thyroid easier?

 

[Mossy]

I understand but i believe there is a lot more methionine relative to Selenium? Like with magnesium glycinate theres 700mg glycine per 100mg elemental magnesium.

I can't use magnesium malate, citrate, threonate, and glycinate due to side effects, so my options are limited. Oxide doesnt absorb well, aspartate seems to cause no noticeable sides. I havent seen a good taurate anywhere, and currently, even for the last couple years, i seem to have trouble digesting eggs and taurine. Bloating, anything beyond 1 whole egg a day causes a skin rash on the face, bloating indigestion etc. Life extensions super selenium product caused oily skin and large red zits.

For what it’s worth, I’m very sensitive to all supplements long term, and can endure only a very few short term. I can’t take any magnesium supplements, except for Swanson’s Ultra magnesium orotate. I haven’t taken it since running out, but thought it was worth suggesting it. Normally, I wouldn’t suggest Swanson, but like I say, it’s the only one I can take does not give me any negative effects that I can tell. I did take low dose, by the way.

 

[BigChad]

For what it’s worth, I’m very sensitive to all supplements long term, and can endure only a very few short term. I can’t take any magnesium supplements, except for Swanson’s Ultra magnesium orotate. I haven’t taken it since running out, but thought it was worth suggesting it. Normally, I wouldn’t suggest Swanson, but like I say, it’s the only one I can take does not give me any negative effects that I can tell. I did take low dose, by the way.

I remember reading orotate forms had serious issues. Can't recall what it was

 

[Amazoniac]

I understand but i believe there is a lot more methionine relative to Selenium? Like with magnesium glycinate theres 700mg glycine per 100mg elemental magnesium.

I can't use magnesium malate, citrate, threonate, and glycinate due to side effects, so my options are limited. Oxide doesnt absorb well, aspartate seems to cause no noticeable sides. I havent seen a good taurate anywhere, and currently, even for the last couple years, i seem to have trouble digesting eggs and taurine. Bloating, anything beyond 1 whole egg a day causes a skin rash on the face, bloating indigestion etc. Life extensions super selenium product caused oily skin and large red zits.

Selenomethionine is methionine with its sulfur replaced by selenium. But just pick various solid foods with low methionine content and count how many of them have less than 0.2 mg/serving.

Issues with (seleno)methionine, taurine, eggs, thiamine, biotin, magnesium, and so on, point to problems with bacteria that thrive on sulfur (or selenium compounds). You might benefit from topical magnesium, Zeus has a product and people seem to like it.

You can minimize adverse reactions to selenomethionine by dumping it in vinegar and adding sodium bicarbonate, the smell mildens as well (it's always funny to read reviews of selenium products).

 

[BigChad]

Selenomethionine is methionine with its sulfur replaced by selenium. But just pick various solid foods with low methionine content and count how many of them have less than 0.2 mg/serving.

Issues with (seleno)methionine, taurine, eggs, thiamine, biotin, magnesium, and so on, point to problems with bacteria that thrive on sulfur (or selenium compounds). You might benefit from topical magnesium, Zeus has a product and people seem to like it.

You can minimize adverse reactions to selenomethionine by dumping it in vinegar and adding sodium bicarbonate, the smell mildens as well (it's always funny to read reviews of selenium products).

How could i get rid of those bacteria. Olive leaf extract? Garlic? Ashwaganda? Iodine, copper?

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Any updates from the people who were experimenting with high dose iodine/iodide?

Tried it for a while. Had tension headaches for a short while, possibly related to halides being released from tissues. Also noticed a very strong and fast pulse after painting some of my skin with 20% Lugol's solution.

I have stopped, I am not 100% sure it is safe without selenium.

 

[baccheion]

Tried it for a while. Had tension headaches for a short while, possibly related to halides being released from tissues. Also noticed a very strong and fast pulse after painting some of my skin with 20% Lugol's solution.

I have stopped, I am not 100% sure it is safe without selenium.

Did you take it with companion nutrients? Follow salt pushing for the first week if necessary? Jump to 100 mg (50 mg 2x/day ~6-8 hours apart) to minimize and power through detox?

 

[BigChad]

Did you take it with companion nutrients? Follow salt pushing for the first week if necessary? Jump to 100 mg (50 mg 2x/day ~6-8 hours apart) to minimize and power through detox?

Ive seen one of the companion nutrients listed as being 500mg+ niacinamide. Niacinamide clears thyroid hormone from the blood, selenium in high doses causes hypothyroidism as well. Im unsure if the iodine protocol is helpful or does anything since it seems like you would get an effect similar to eating a Japanese diet, where you would consume high iodine foods alongside a bunch of goitrogens. Seaweed itself has compounds that supposedly limit how much iodine you can absorb. The companion nutrients seem to be just an attempt to replicate what happens when you eat an iodine megadose alongside ad equate goitrogens. I read an interesting article which brought up the point that most mammals eat very low iodine, but also eat minimal to no goitrogens (at least the ones that need iodine). Theres a lot of things that are goitrogenic for example apigenin in onion and parsley.

 

[baccheion]

Ive seen one of the companion nutrients listed as being 500mg+ niacinamide. Niacinamide clears thyroid hormone from the blood, selenium in high doses causes hypothyroidism as well. Im unsure if the iodine protocol is helpful or does anything since it seems like you would get an effect similar to eating a Japanese diet, where you would consume high iodine foods alongside a bunch of goitrogens. Seaweed itself has compounds that supposedly limit how much iodine you can absorb. The companion nutrients seem to be just an attempt to replicate what happens when you eat an iodine megadose alongside ad equate goitrogens. I read an interesting article which brought up the point that most mammals eat very low iodine, but also eat minimal to no goitrogens (at least the ones that need iodine). Theres a lot of things that are goitrogenic for example apigenin in onion and parsley.

It would have to be niacin (as inositol hexaniacinate). Clearance of T4 may help with organification (ie, uptake) of iodine, as the body now needs to produce more.

The goal of the protocol is saturation. Maintenance involves taking 12.5 mg 1 month on 3 months off, though some need more and continue taking it regularly.

Saturation is complete when a loading test shows more than 90% being excreted.

Iodine works well for me each time. I've also tried applying to the scrotum with success.

 

[BigChad]

It would have to be niacin (as inositol hexaniacinate). Clearance of T4 may help with organification (ie, uptake) of iodine, as the body now needs to produce more.

The goal of the protocol is saturation. Maintenance involves taking 12.5 mg 1 month on 3 months off, though some need more and continue taking it regularly.

Saturation is complete when a loading test shows more than 90% being excreted.

Iodine works well for me each time. I've also tried applying to the scrotum with success.

How much selenium alongside 12.5mg, i heard selenium cant be taken more than 400mcg a day? Is that enough to cover milligrams of iodine.

Do You Have Hypothyroidism? Find Out Which Foods to Avoid

 

[Inaut]

I’ve used Lugol’s on and off for many years. Mostly topical and limited to a couple of drops.

@baccheion how do you get around the burn from iodine. I’ve tried painting my scrotum a couple of times but it burns my ️ s

 

[baccheion]

How much selenium alongside 12.5mg, i heard selenium cant be taken more than 400mcg a day? Is that enough to cover milligrams of iodine.

Do You Have Hypothyroidism? Find Out Which Foods to Avoid

100 mcg L-selenomethionine per 50 mg Lugol's. 200 mcg minimum.

I’ve used Lugol’s on and off for many years. Mostly topical and limited to a couple of drops.

@baccheion how do you get around the burn from iodine. I’ve tried painting my scrotum a couple of times but it burns my ️ s

I drop it on my finger or palm (if a higher amount), then rub in. Some use oil to prevent dermatitis (lookup "iodine painting protocol" to see the steps).

 

[cry0genicz]

Everyone talking about important cofactors like magnesium and selenium and salt and blah blah.

Just eat your damn seaweed. Stop taking all these isolated nutrients trying to hack the matrix with your chemistry and risking imbalance. Just eat what nature provides to us.

Seaweed, particularly kelp, has loads of iodine along with all the minerals and vitamins that work with it. Emulate a traditional japanese person and eat kelp broth'd miso soup before every meal and get loads of nutrients including iodine.

I know seaweed was discussed earlier in this post's timeline but was a bit murky in some of the interpretations of the Japanese data regarding iodine/seaweed intake.

Common arguments against japanese iodine intake:
People said that the japanese boil the hell out of kelp and 99% of the iodine in kelp is leached out into the water when boiled for 15 minutes or so. Someone said the japanese don't actually get that much iodine because their kelp has been cooked and leached of iodine. Please note, they DRINK that iodine rich water as its used as soup broth. They then typically dry the leftover kelp and use it in later dishes as seasoning. They're getting every little bit out of that seaweed, folks. They eat loads of iodine.

The japanese also consume goitrogens - like cruciferous vegetables and soy. So people say goitrogens must be consumed too if you don't want to destroy yourself from eating so much seaweed. I see this dietary balance of low thyroid - high thyroid food as simply that, BALANCED MEALS... for already BALANCED PEOPLE. All foods have some kind of herbal/medicinal effect. If you're someone who is imbalanced and tipping in favor of low thyroid, perhaps you could eat more high thyroid foods like seaweeds, and less goitrogenic foods. Of course, someone who is legitimately hyperthryoid may find benefit in eating more goitrogens. It just depends on your personal constitution.

Personally, I've been vegan for about 1 year now and I'm pretty well off with my nutrition except recently I noticed that i really haven't been eating iodine foods, as most people get iodine from either animal foods or iodized salt which i consume neither. I've been upping my kelp intake and not eating so many greens and im feeling a little better, but I'm sure I'll need to do this for months to see if it really is what I've been missing.

 

[baccheion]

If concerned about thyroid states, there are labs and ultrasounds that check function and for antibodies. There's also a selenium RBC test to verify continued selenium sufficiency.

Everyone talking about important cofactors like magnesium and selenium and salt and blah blah.

Just eat your damn seaweed. Stop taking all these isolated nutrients trying to hack the matrix with your chemistry and risking imbalance. Just eat what nature provides to us.

Seaweed, particularly kelp, has loads of iodine along with all the minerals and vitamins that work with it. Emulate a traditional japanese person and eat kelp broth'd miso soup before every meal and get loads of nutrients including iodine.

I know seaweed was discussed earlier in this post's timeline but was a bit murky in some of the interpretations of the Japanese data regarding iodine/seaweed intake.

Common arguments against japanese iodine intake:
People said that the japanese boil the hell out of kelp and 99% of the iodine in kelp is leached out into the water when boiled for 15 minutes or so. Someone said the japanese don't actually get that much iodine because their kelp has been cooked and leached of iodine. Please note, they DRINK that iodine rich water as its used as soup broth. They then typically dry the leftover kelp and use it in later dishes as seasoning. They're getting every little bit out of that seaweed, folks. They eat loads of iodine.

The japanese also consume goitrogens - like cruciferous vegetables and soy. So people say goitrogens must be consumed too if you don't want to destroy yourself from eating so much seaweed. I see this dietary balance of low thyroid - high thyroid food as simply that, BALANCED MEALS... for already BALANCED PEOPLE. All foods have some kind of herbal/medicinal effect. If you're someone who is imbalanced and tipping in favor of low thyroid, perhaps you could eat more high thyroid foods like seaweeds, and less goitrogenic foods. Of course, someone who is legitimately hyperthryoid may find benefit in eating more goitrogens. It just depends on your personal constitution.

Personally, I've been vegan for about 1 year now and I'm pretty well off with my nutrition except recently I noticed that i really haven't been eating iodine foods, as most people get iodine from either animal foods or iodized salt which i consume neither. I've been upping my kelp intake and not eating so many greens and im feeling a little better, but I'm sure I'll need to do this for months to see if it really is what I've been missing.

How does a vegan diet fare against something like CRON-o-meter? That is, what are the odds you're meeting all nutrient requirements, especially after factoring in bioavailability of nutrients from particular foods?

 

[BigChad]

Everyone talking about important cofactors like magnesium and selenium and salt and blah blah.

Just eat your damn seaweed. Stop taking all these isolated nutrients trying to hack the matrix with your chemistry and risking imbalance. Just eat what nature provides to us.

Seaweed, particularly kelp, has loads of iodine along with all the minerals and vitamins that work with it. Emulate a traditional japanese person and eat kelp broth'd miso soup before every meal and get loads of nutrients including iodine.

I know seaweed was discussed earlier in this post's timeline but was a bit murky in some of the interpretations of the Japanese data regarding iodine/seaweed intake.

Common arguments against japanese iodine intake:
People said that the japanese boil the hell out of kelp and 99% of the iodine in kelp is leached out into the water when boiled for 15 minutes or so. Someone said the japanese don't actually get that much iodine because their kelp has been cooked and leached of iodine. Please note, they DRINK that iodine rich water as its used as soup broth. They then typically dry the leftover kelp and use it in later dishes as seasoning. They're getting every little bit out of that seaweed, folks. They eat loads of iodine.

The japanese also consume goitrogens - like cruciferous vegetables and soy. So people say goitrogens must be consumed too if you don't want to destroy yourself from eating so much seaweed. I see this dietary balance of low thyroid - high thyroid food as simply that, BALANCED MEALS... for already BALANCED PEOPLE. All foods have some kind of herbal/medicinal effect. If you're someone who is imbalanced and tipping in favor of low thyroid, perhaps you could eat more high thyroid foods like seaweeds, and less goitrogenic foods. Of course, someone who is legitimately hyperthryoid may find benefit in eating more goitrogens. It just depends on your personal constitution.

Personally, I've been vegan for about 1 year now and I'm pretty well off with my nutrition except recently I noticed that i really haven't been eating iodine foods, as most people get iodine from either animal foods or iodized salt which i consume neither. I've been upping my kelp intake and not eating so many greens and im feeling a little better, but I'm sure I'll need to do this for months to see if it really is what I've been missing.

If you are hyperthyroid, you would want to stay there instead of lowering it? few people are actually hyperthyroid according to peat?
seaweed itself like kelp, has some anti thyroid compounds in it or anti iodine compounds, so seaweed itself should limit how much iodine you can absorb from it. And true the people eating high iodine diets have also been eating high goitrogen diets with lots of soy.
Iodine only helps hypothyroid people if their hypothyroidism is caused by iodine deficiency/low iodine... most hypothyroid people seem to be autoimmune hypothyroid which is too much iodine or vitamin a, not enough vitamin d, selenium, etc. its complex.
the iodine protocol does not seem to be solely an attempt to recreate iodine as found in nature, rather it seems to be taking a lot of anti thyroid things like megadoses of niacin, selenium, alongside the iodine. I don't think it actually causes weight loss but in some cases if done properly may be able to help excrete fluoride/bromines from the body which is the goal I believe. Iodine seems damn dangerous when not taken alongside large doses of selenium

 

[baccheion]

If you are hyperthyroid, you would want to stay there instead of lowering it? few people are actually hyperthyroid according to peat?
seaweed itself like kelp, has some anti thyroid compounds in it or anti iodine compounds, so seaweed itself should limit how much iodine you can absorb from it. And true the people eating high iodine diets have also been eating high goitrogen diets with lots of soy.
Iodine only helps hypothyroid people if their hypothyroidism is caused by iodine deficiency/low iodine... most hypothyroid people seem to be autoimmune hypothyroid which is too much iodine or vitamin a, not enough vitamin d, selenium, etc. its complex.
the iodine protocol does not seem to be solely an attempt to recreate iodine as found in nature, rather it seems to be taking a lot of anti thyroid things like megadoses of niacin, selenium, alongside the iodine. I don't think it actually causes weight loss but in some cases if done properly may be able to help excrete fluoride/bromines from the body which is the goal I believe. Iodine seems damn dangerous when not taken alongside large doses of selenium

The point of the protocol is to achieve saturation. After, maintenance mode involves taking 12.5 mg 1 month on + 3 months off. Some continue taking it (12.5-50 mg) regularly anyway. Newer experiences have shown some need more than 12.5 mg to continue opposing other halogens. There's a loading test to check level of saturation.

Once saturated, excess iodine tends to oppose thyroid function. For some, this leads to regular/continuing dose reductions and labs. Eventually, it settles.