Mega Dosing Iodine = Bad, Destroys Thyroid Tissue Permanently

[Amazoniac]

When someone is attempting iodine as therapy, one overlooked factor that can determine if it's successul or not is whether its use coincides with the gut being challenged by problematic proteins such as gluten or casein (especially the dear one); these are reliable in setting up favorable conditions for worsening autoimmunity issues, including in the typhoid.

- The Enteric Network: Interactions between the Immune and Nervous Systems of the Gut
- Gut Bacteria May Cause ALL Autoimmune Conditions; Antibiotics Can Cure
- A Milligram of Gluten a Day Keeps the Mucosal Recovery Away: A Case Report

 

[Amazoniac]

- Lugol reactive: History of discovery and teaching applications (in spanish)

"It was a French doctor surnamed Lugol who discovered that iodine, which is practically insoluble in water, dissolves easily by adding potassium iodide. For this reason, the dissolution of iodine with potassium iodide in water is called reactive or Lugol liquid, or simply Lugol."

"He tried to dissolve the iodine in water, which he says is difficult because according to Gay-Lussac only a part of iodine by weight is dissolved in seven thousand parts of water, and he succeeded by adding potassium iodide, which he calls "hydriodate" of potassium. The explanation of this name is given by Turner, a professor of chemistry at Edinburgh, because to obtain potassium iodide he dissolves the iodine in a solution of potassium hydroxide according to the following recipe: "To obtain potassium iodide, the iodine is treated with a concentrated solution of potassium hydroxide. The excess potassium hydroxide is neutralized with hydroiodic acid. The mixture of iodine compounds obtained is heated to dryness carefully by the volatility of the iodine" (Turner, 1825). When heating they obtained iodide and iodate, the latter is decomposed by the action of heat producing iodide and oxygen, so that the final result would be potassium iodide."

"According to Lugol (figure 6) potassium iodide would have no action from the medical point of view and the only thing that would act is iodine, but adding potassium iodide is the only adequate way to keep iodine in solution."

For the traditional 5% Lugol's solution:

100 ml or g of distilled water.

5% of that is: 5 g of elemental iodine.
It was defined that twice as much potassium iodide was ideal for the purpose discussed above: 10 g.


Or a more practical way:
The consensus is that a (vertical) drop is about 0.05 ml or g.

0.05 g = 50 mg.

5% of 50 mg = 2.5 mg of elemental iodine per drop.
5%*2 of 50 mg = 5.0 mg of potassium iodide per drop.

The proportion of iodine in potassium iodide is round to 75%, therefore 5.0 mg of KI provide 3.75 mg of iodine per drop.

Total iodine: 6.25 mg/drop.​

Isn't it curious that the strength of a Lugol's solution on label completely ignores the potassium iodide content, especially because this form is responsible for the greatest iodine share in the solution? The proportion of elemental iodine defines the potency, and it's obvious that they were after its effect. Yet (as far as I know) people like Albie Szent-Györgyi and Will Koch only used potassium iodide, which is something that's often ignored.

Out of curiosity, Gerson used such 5% solution, but diluted it to end up with half of the potency (would be labeled 2.5%), so about 3.125 mg/drop. The initial dosage is 6x 3 drops (56.25 mg/d), then diminished to 6x 1 drop (18.75 mg/d). I have to confirm if these values coincide with theirs, but if you's wondering why not ignore decimals, 0.25 mg for example is more than the RDA.

On the other hand, everyone knows that droppers are inconsistent, the variation can be mark'd. That's not a problem if your product provides 50 mcg per drop, yet if you're dealing with one that gives you 6.25 mg, a 20% change isn't modest.

 

[baccheion]

For the traditional 5% Lugol's solution:

100 ml or g of distilled water.

5% of that is: 5 g of elemental iodine.
It was defined that twice as much potassium iodide was ideal for the purpose discussed above: 10 g.


Or a more practical way:
The consensus is that a (vertical) drop is about 0.05 ml or g.

0.05 g = 50 mg.

5% of 50 mg = 2.5 mg of elemental iodine per drop.
5%*2 of 50 mg = 5.0 mg of potassium iodide per drop.

The proportion of iodine in potassium iodide is round to 75%, therefore 5.0 mg of KI provide 3.75 mg of iodine per drop.

Total iodine: 6.25 mg/drop.​

Isn't it curious that the strength of a Lugol's solution on label completely ignores the potassium iodide content? Especially because this form is responsible for the greatest iodine share in the solution. It's obvious that they were after the effects of elemental iodine. Yet (as far as I know) people like Albie Szent-Györgyi and Will Koch only used potassium iodide, which is something that's often ignored.

Out of curiosity, Gerson used such 5% solution, but diluted it to end up with half of the potency (would be labeled 2.5%), so about 3.125 mg/drop. The initial dosage is 6x 3 drops (56.25 mg/d), then diminished to 6x 1 drop (18.75 mg/d). If you're wondering why not ignore decimals, 0.25 mg for example is more than the RDA. But I have to confirm if these values coincide with theirs.

On the other hand, everyone knows that droppers are inconsistent, the variation can be mark'd. That's not a problem if your product provides 50 mcg per drop, yet if you're dealing with one that gives you 6.25 mg, a 20% change isn't modest.

Iodide exists in Lugol's solution to keep iodine dissolved/stable in solution. Some following the protocol use 100 mg Lugol's along with 1,000 mg potassium iodide (both split across 2 servings). That could probably be augmented to 50 mg Lugol's + 650 mg potassium iodide 2-3x/day.

After, they sometimes stick to the dose used as a cough expectorant: 650 mg potassium iodide. Sometimes it halves and then sometimes again. One of their theories is that at such a high dose, enough is converted to elemental iodine to meet maintenance requirements.

Bumping Lugol's to 100 mg (as opposed to taking less or tapering) is said to greatly minimize and power through detox symptoms.

There are numerous labs mentioned on Optimox's website, as it's recommended that thyroid function and antibody levels are checked prior to starting and during.

 

[Peater Piper]

Any updates from the people who were experimenting with high dose iodine/iodide?

 

[ecstatichamster]

very much appreciate the cites, @Amazoniac

 

[Vinny]

Any updates from the people who were experimenting with high dose iodine/iodide?

I haven,t started, decided to research it more. Got scared a bit to give it a full go.

 

[Dave Clark]

I haven,t started, decided to research it more. Got scared a bit to give it a full go.

Check out some Face Book groups where people share their experiences with iodine, dosing, etc. I belong to one called Iodine Protocols. I am not a social media type of guy, but you can learn a lot on some of these type of groups.

 

[Vinny]

Check out some Face Book groups where people share their experiences with iodine, dosing, etc. I belong to one called Iodine Protocols. I am not a social media type of guy, but you can learn a lot on some of these type of groups.

Cool.
Thanks, Dave

 

[BigChad]

Nope, in fact I recently increased my dose to 100 mg a day with no noticeably negative effects. The only thing I have noticed is with this increased dosages I seem to have increased bowel movements and what I believe to be parasites being removed in my bowel movements. Gross, but I think Iodine is helping me rid myself of long-standing parasites. This makes sense if Dr. Brown was right and Iodine is a strong anti-oxidant like Vitamin C.

Amazoniac posted earlier that the selenium content of brazil nuts is not consistent - some may have little content, some may have too much (promoting toxicity). In this case, supplementation seems safest (I use a liquid form so it is quickly bio-usable)

The only way as far as I know for Iodine to induce hyperthyroidism is if you have dysfunctional thyroid nodules. If this is the case, reducing Iodine intake to reduce symptoms is merely a band-aid (and I will admit, probably in the short term, necessary, while you get the problem fixed), and you need to get this checked out by a Dr. It's like avoiding sugar because you have diabetes, which as we know Dr. Peat has a thing or two to say about that.

Where do you get your info from and what benefits have you noticed from iodine? I really havent personally seen anyone healthy megadosing iodine. I myself was in great shape, regularly eating pufa even, lots of energy, no hair loss issues, with just 150mcg potassium iodide a day. High dose iodine messed me up. 3mg or 2mg just once a week for 6 weeks caused an instant 20 pounds weight gain no change in diet. Im pretty sure alex jones started the iodine nonsense, and he himself appears to have a goiter and thyroid issues. Why are such high iodine intakes needed and why are humans the only mammals who need mgs of iodine? Its also known that high iodine intakes make you feel good at the start due to initial release of thyroid hormones from destroyed thyroid tissue supposedly. You've been doing the extreme doses of iodine for a while now so im curious to hear your results on this. I got extreme side effects from doses nowhere what you're using although i used potassium and sodium iodide (terrys tri iodide 3mg)

 

[BigChad]

Guys.... you are going to **** up your thyroid very badly if you don't supplement 400mcg of selenomethionine (and not less, and not anyother form, and definitely NOT from brazil nuts). Please.

Other than that, I'm also in favor of iodine and I think Ray is wrong about it's toxicity. But it has to be used correctly.

I think all the studies demonstrating iodine toxicity is becase they were not using selenium along with it, which is, again, absolutely crucial for it to work correctly.

You have been warned.

How long would it take to heal the damage if you took 3mg potassium sodium iodide once a week for 6 weeks with only 100 to 150mcg seleniun. 20 pounds weight gain in 6 weeks.

Why does the form need to be selenomethionine. Does the type of selenium make a difference other than absorption percentage.
Why 400mcg and not 200. Dont you need to alter the selenium depending on iodine intake.

Does this even work? Whats the purpose of megadosing selenium and iodine instead of getting rda amounts of both. Others earlier in the thread have mentioned selenium and iodine in high amounts causing hypothyroidism and other issues. Even selenium and iodine together were even more toxic supposedly.

 

[BigChad]

@Amazoniac do you have any thoughts or info on the above.
If one were to trigger autoimmunity by megadosing iodine for 6 weeks without adequate selenium, would the effects of that megadosing be resolved by 3 to 6 weeks of high selenium intake (200mcg+ daily) with just a regular 100 to 200mcg iodine intake.

 

[BigChad]

Still not sure what that has to do with creationism unless it is trying to imply something related to the great global flood of Noah's time in regards to explaining something regarding the Iodine content of sea creatures?

In any case, I was speaking generalities, and assuming that the average person is Iodine-deficient and Bromine-toxic (which according to Brown is 95-97% of people he treated), so if that's not you, I wasn't speaking to you so in that case, your 1mg per day would get you a pretty good milage if you have little to no toxic halogens to get rid of. Even still, I would probably think it would be prudent to get at least up to around 10-20 mg a day when healthy (which it sounds like you're trying to aim for, if 1mg works for you) which is fair enough. Certainly, even just 1mg is way better than I think what most Americans get nowadays. I don't think it is enough to achieve saturation, at least not at a reasonable time frame, but it's way better than what people are getting at least. Part of the problem is that most bread used to contain around 100-200 mcg of Iodine *per slice*, and now bread contains bromine instead. So not only are Americans not getting Iodine, they're getting Bromine instead - a double whammy if you will. Americans used to get on average 1mg Iodine a day due to bread intake, but it's way less nowadays.

I see you live in the Netherlands. I don't know if your country has stricter or laxer laws regarding halogens in foods. I speak only for the USA. Also the 95-97% statistic speaks to Americans, I dunno what this % may be for the netherlands.

Dude i see you constantly defending iodine on the forums as if its a miracle molecule.
You could say i have a hatred of iodine because of what it did to me and others. But i took the time to take iodine, and experience the effects.
You seem to be defending iodine before even having taken the mega dose protocols.
I'd normally be more open minded, but considering Peat himself advised limiting it to 400 or 500mcg (which is half of the current upper limit), I'm requesting you, can you genuinely say that 7 months of megadosing iodine has improved your quality of life? Whats your body fat percentage? What was your weight before and after starting iodine. Did your skin, energy, hormones or anything else improve from these iodine mega doses? Do you have any legit evidence that it helped you in some way? What cofactors are you using along with it.

 

[Amazoniac]

@Amazoniac do you have any thoughts or info on the above.
If one were to trigger autoimmunity by megadosing iodine for 6 weeks without adequate selenium, would the effects of that megadosing be resolved by 3 to 6 weeks of high selenium intake (200mcg+ daily) with just a regular 100 to 200mcg iodine intake.

Selenium is more preventive than corrective and I remember reading somewhere that 200 mcg/d was the minimum needed for protection in people dealing with typhoid issues. The iodine dose that you mentioned is not absurd, so if there were problems from it, they must be mild and easy to reverse. Extra iodine has some uses but it's safer to shut down your typhoid with hormone supplementation either way so that there's no risk of damage and excess selenium is not need'd.

- Cautionary Tale / Eat Selenium (regarding forms)

There are exceptions, but most proponents of iodine megadosing end up puffed.

 

[BigChad]

Selenium is more preventive than corrective and I remember reading somewhere that 200 mcg/d was the minimum needed for protection in people dealing with typhoid issues. The iodine dose that you mentioned is not absurd, so if there were problems from it, they must be mild and easy to reverse. Extra iodine has some uses but it's safer to shut down your typhoid with hormone supplementation either way so that there's no risk of damage and excess selenium is not need'd.

- Cautionary Tale / Eat Selenium (regarding forms)

There are exceptions, but most proponents of iodine megadosing end up puffed.

I heard selenium clears up auto antibodies in the thyroid? Does it have to be selenomethionine or is solgars selenium yeast 200mcg fine.

Blood tests 2.5 months after stopping the high iodine doses still showed elevated antibodies. Things havent really changed by adding fat solubles. I heard excess iodine can deplete selenium. I'm showing a lot of selenium deficiency symptoms as well which began in march after iodine megadosing. Testicles 50% smaller than usual since march, hair loss, elevated prolactin, hair shedding extreme fatigue, only lifting weights once a month. Elevated cortisol. All started after 6 weeks of taking 3mg iodide once a week alongside 150mcg or 170mcg selenium

 

[Vinny]

I heard selenium clears up auto antibodies in the thyroid? Does it have to be selenomethionine or is solgars selenium yeast 200mcg fine.

Blood tests 2.5 months after stopping the high iodine doses still showed elevated antibodies. Things havent really changed by adding fat solubles. I heard excess iodine can deplete selenium. I'm showing a lot of selenium deficiency symptoms as well which began in march after iodine megadosing. Testicles 50% smaller than usual since march, hair loss, elevated prolactin, hair shedding extreme fatigue, only lifting weights once a month. Elevated cortisol. All started after 6 weeks of taking 3mg iodide once a week alongside 150mcg or 170mcg selenium

Sorry to hear you don`t feel well, man.
I was considering mega-dosing iodine, took some (much more than you did) on and off, now I`m off it. I`m not anti- nor pro- iodine supplementing, neither I feel I have the knowledge, but it seems to me that 3mg iodide once a week, as you shared, is quite a low, insignificant dose. Have you been thinking what else might cause your troubles? And also, who determined the 50% reduction of your testicles? A doctor?

 

[Amazoniac]

I heard selenium clears up auto antibodies in the thyroid? Does it have to be selenomethionine or is solgars selenium yeast 200mcg fine.

Blood tests 2.5 months after stopping the high iodine doses still showed elevated antibodies. Things havent really changed by adding fat solubles. I heard excess iodine can deplete selenium. I'm showing a lot of selenium deficiency symptoms as well which began in march after iodine megadosing. Testicles 50% smaller than usual since march, hair loss, elevated prolactin, hair shedding extreme fatigue, only lifting weights once a month. Elevated cortisol. All started after 6 weeks of taking 3mg iodide once a week alongside 150mcg or 170mcg selenium

Plain selenomethionine in 100 mcg doses must be enough, and not messing with poison A supplementation for now is also a good idea. I would prioritize magnesium, calcium, trace minerals and antidote C.

 

[BigChad]

Plain selenomethionine in 100 mcg doses must be enough, and not messing with poison A supplementation for now is also a good idea. I would prioritize magnesium, calcium, trace minerals and antidote C.

200mg mag aspartate per day
500mg black cumin seed oil, do you know if this would help at all? Heard it lowers antibodies.
My current diet provides around 1300mg both calcium and phosphorus. Have to add some calcium somehow.
Is 4500iu of vitamin A helpful if 8000iu d3 are taken daily. Supposedly A deficiency causes hypo too.
15mg mk4, 3x a week, 1mg k1/1.5mg mk4/300mcg mk7 4x a week.
Thorne ultimate E 2x a week.
Selenomethionine i have to order whereas the selenium from brewers yeast i can get today

 

[BigChad]

Sorry to hear you don`t feel well, man.
I was considering mega-dosing iodine, took some (much more than you did) on and off, now I`m off it. I`m not anti- nor pro- iodine supplementing, neither I feel I have the knowledge, but it seems to me that 3mg iodide once a week, as you shared, is quite a low, insignificant dose. Have you been thinking what else might cause your troubles? And also, who determined the 50% reduction of your testicles? A doctor?

I was mildly hypothyroid prior to it due to using zma for a year with minimal dietary or supplemental copper intake. A blood test showed red blood cells smaller than normal. It was my own observation, they got much smaller since march and have stayed that way, alongside nipple sensitivity, hair loss.

 

[BigChad]

Plain selenomethionine in 100 mcg doses must be enough, and not messing with poison A supplementation for now is also a good idea. I would prioritize magnesium, calcium, trace minerals and antidote C.

Does form of selenium make a difference besides absorption rate? In general i thought methionine and cysteine shouldnt be supplemented so the selenium yeast would be a way to avoid that

 

[Amazoniac]

200mg mag aspartate per day
500mg black cumin seed oil, do you know if this would help at all? Heard it lowers antibodies.
My current diet provides around 1300mg both calcium and phosphorus. Have to add some calcium somehow.
Is 4500iu of vitamin A helpful if 8000iu d3 are taken daily. Supposedly A deficiency causes hypo too.
15mg mk4, 3x a week, 1mg k1/1.5mg mk4/300mcg mk7 4x a week.
Thorne ultimate E 2x a week.
Selenomethionine i have to order whereas the selenium from brewers yeast i can get today

I would consider discontinuing all that you're unsure about and start from scratch with a decent form of magnesium (there are various discussions on the forum), human doses of vitamins E and K (same), antidote C and increase the intake of trace minerals from foods. If your blood levels of venom D are high, it's worth keeping the equine doses of K for a while.

I'm not familiar with black cumin oil, but if you're dealing with oxidative stress, it might make it worse.

Does form of selenium make a difference besides absorption rate? In general i thought methionine and cysteine shouldnt be supplemented so the selenium yeast would be a way to avoid that

You must have missed the linked posted above.
A few hundred micrograms is nothing compared to what people get from diet (4 grams for example).

Perhaps selenized yeast stays on the market for being a leftover of living the stock that prefers this form for being much better than inorganic ones, yet cheaper than the purified selenomethionine. The content of selenomethionine is high nevertheless, but it can be unpredictable and often has undesirable forms as well.

- Selenomethionine and Selenium Yeast: Appropriate Forms of Selenium for Use in Infant Formulas and Nutritional Supplements

- Cautionary Tale / Eat Selenium

Spoiler