Mega Dosing Iodine = Bad, Destroys Thyroid Tissue Permanently

Cirion

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Lol yeah, I stopped doing it. I actually can't remember why tbh at this point.

I am not actually sure I necessarily had severe negative reactions to it. Mostly, I think the reason why I quit was to be on the safe side -- I didn't at the time have access to bromine toxicity tests or iodine saturation testing to be sure where I was at. It's one of those things that may be worth pursuing, but probably only under the guidance of a doctor who is testing you for that stuff and also making 100% sure you aren't messing with the thyroid in a bad way.

I did have one or two really good days though on it. So there may be something to it. Maybe I'll look into it again when I feel like doing those tests or if the mood strikes me.

Now I'm more vigorously tracking body temps pulses wt. changes etc, so if I did it again, I would have more concrete metrics to track it against.

I'm mentally thinking back to the days I used to have aspirin and iodine. I do think maybe I had more euphoric days in some ways back then than I do nowadays. Truly euphoric days are pretty rare now sadly... Then again I've been screwing up a lot lately. In the process of screwing up royally though, I did find out that apparently I don't tolerate meat or dairy, so, you only fail if you don't learn from your mistakes as they say... but that's a subject for another thread I suppose lol.
 

Tarmander

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Lol yeah, I stopped doing it. I actually can't remember why tbh at this point.

I am not actually sure I necessarily had severe negative reactions to it. Mostly, I think the reason why I quit was to be on the safe side -- I didn't at the time have access to bromine toxicity tests or iodine saturation testing to be sure where I was at. It's one of those things that may be worth pursuing, but probably only under the guidance of a doctor who is testing you for that stuff and also making 100% sure you aren't messing with the thyroid in a bad way.

I did have one or two really good days though on it. So there may be something to it. Maybe I'll look into it again when I feel like doing those tests or if the mood strikes me.

Now I'm more vigorously tracking body temps pulses wt. changes etc, so if I did it again, I would have more concrete metrics to track it against.

I'm mentally thinking back to the days I used to have aspirin and iodine. I do think maybe I had more euphoric days in some ways back then than I do nowadays. Truly euphoric days are pretty rare now sadly... Then again I've been screwing up a lot lately. In the process of screwing up royally though, I did find out that apparently I don't tolerate meat or dairy, so, you only fail if you don't learn from your mistakes as they say... but that's a subject for another thread I suppose lol.

Thanks for the update man.

Not having euphoric days is probably okay. I mean they are nice when they come but they cost you I think in the long run. That intensity of experience robs you in some way. Makes life seem grey in comparison and your body can't really keep it up over the long haul.

Glad you did not have much of a negative experience, and your thyroid did not melt away lol.
 

Cirion

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Thanks for the update man.

Not having euphoric days is probably okay. I mean they are nice when they come but they cost you I think in the long run. That intensity of experience robs you in some way. Makes life seem grey in comparison and your body can't really keep it up over the long haul.

Glad you did not have much of a negative experience, and your thyroid did not melt away lol.

Oh I believe a state of nearly constant euphoria can be achieved. I've done it once before a couple years ago, and back then my only supplements were Vitamin C, curcumin, spirulina, and coriander I believe. And lots of whey/maltodextrin shakes lol. But I will say IMO its best achieved naturally by crushing stress to nearly zero and whatnot and probably not best achieved by abusing supplements. I think many of us have a very strong metabolism just wanting to shake loose, if only we were to get rid of our oxidative stress. Oxidative stress (from various sources including but not limited to pufa, cystine, tryptophan, toxins stored in body fat and food, maybe vitamin A, lack of sodium etc etc.... ) is what is ruining our moods and making us fat, lazy, fatigued, etc. I'm getting there very slowly but surely. The whole breakthrough about protein was extremely major for me ---- since i've already proven I can get 7 days straight of 98.4+F waking temps, 80+ waking pulse, and weight loss or at least weight neutral. I feel like I'm so close. My latest thing is gonna be playing with powders -- first up Bone broth protein powder cuz its the next best thing to gelatin, almost no cystine and no tryptophan. Anyway, I digress. I actually feel pretty decent tonight, speaking of euphoria. Since I got rid of animal meat again =P That stuff really messes me up =/ I'm looking back at some posts just earlier this week shuddering... literally meat makes me depressed and sinking into a learned helplessness. Cystine and tryptophan are both worse than PUFA imo now in many ways. I didn't appreciate this when I first found peat. I wish I had. But better late than never I suppose.
 
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Tarmander

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Oh I believe a state of nearly constant euphoria can be achieved. I've done it once before a couple years ago, and back then my only supplements were Vitamin C, curcumin, spirulina, and coriander I believe. And lots of whey/maltodextrin shakes lol. But I will say IMO its best achieved naturally by crushing stress to nearly zero and whatnot and probably not best achieved by abusing supplements. I think many of us have a very strong metabolism just wanting to shake loose, if only we were to get rid of our oxidative stress. Oxidative stress (from various sources including but not limited to pufa, cystine, tryptophan, toxins stored in body fat and food, maybe vitamin A, lack of sodium etc etc.... ) is what is ruining our moods and making us fat, lazy, fatigued, etc. I'm getting there very slowly but surely. The whole breakthrough about protein was extremely major for me ---- since i've already proven I can get 7 days straight of 98.4+F waking temps, 80+ waking pulse, and weight loss or at least weight neutral. I feel like I'm so close. My latest thing is gonna be playing with powders -- first up Bone broth protein powder cuz its the next best thing to gelatin, almost no cystine and no tryptophan. Anyway, I digress. I actually feel pretty decent tonight, speaking of euphoria. Since I got rid of animal meat again =P That stuff really messes me up =/ I'm looking back at some posts just earlier this week shuddering... literally meat makes me depressed and sinking into a learned helplessness. Cystine and tryptophan are both worse than PUFA imo now in many ways. I didn't appreciate this when I first found peat. I wish I had. But better late than never I suppose.
Any meat? Or have you differentiated between chicken, beef, pork, scallops etc?
 

BigChad

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Any meat? Or have you differentiated between chicken, beef, pork, scallops etc?

Mine did. 5.4cm both lobes of thyroid in january. Used 3mg iodine once a week for 6 weeks in march February. Gained 22 pounds no change in diet exercise.

Still up 22 pounds currently. Thyroid currently measures 4.8cm on right lobe, 4.4cm on left lobe. I stopped high dose iodine since april. Who knows what the thyroid size was in april. I did use 150mcg to 180mcg selenium alongside the iodine, plus vitamin c, b vitamins.

Any thoughts on how long itd take to grow back 1cm Thyroid? Not sure about others, but for me i can confirm without doubt iodine melted the thyroid, 20% of it. When i see people talk about megadosing iodine online i cannot help but assume they are intentionally trying to harm people, trolling, or they are obese, bald, etc in real life. I have never met anyone normal or healthy who mega doses iodine. I also recall ray mentioning iodine should be limited to 500mcg a day max, but 150mcg a day is enough.

Perhaps once you totally destroy the thyroid tissue, you can handle iodine megadoses or it no longer do anything bad since the thyroids gone?

I currently basically cant handle supplements either whereas before only few supplements caused issues for me.
 

Tarmander

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Mine did. 5.4cm both lobes of thyroid in january. Used 3mg iodine once a week for 6 weeks in march February. Gained 22 pounds no change in diet exercise.

Still up 22 pounds currently. Thyroid currently measures 4.8cm on right lobe, 4.4cm on left lobe. I stopped high dose iodine since april. Who knows what the thyroid size was in april. I did use 150mcg to 180mcg selenium alongside the iodine, plus vitamin c, b vitamins.

Any thoughts on how long itd take to grow back 1cm Thyroid? Not sure about others, but for me i can confirm without doubt iodine melted the thyroid, 20% of it. When i see people talk about megadosing iodine online i cannot help but assume they are intentionally trying to harm people, trolling, or they are obese, bald, etc in real life. I have never met anyone normal or healthy who mega doses iodine. I also recall ray mentioning iodine should be limited to 500mcg a day max, but 150mcg a day is enough.

Perhaps once you totally destroy the thyroid tissue, you can handle iodine megadoses or it no longer do anything bad since the thyroids gone?

I currently basically cant handle supplements either whereas before only few supplements caused issues for me.
No idea. I imagine it would be similar to taking exogenous testosterone and having your balls shrink. Maybe look into things that would jump start the thyroid, but no idea. That’s pretty spooky though that you lost thyroid tissue.
 

BigChad

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No idea. I imagine it would be similar to taking exogenous testosterone and having your balls shrink. Maybe look into things that would jump start the thyroid, but no idea. That’s pretty spooky though that you lost thyroid tissue.

Ashwaganda, high dose k2, olive leaf all cause a similar sensation to high dose iodine. K2 is much milder in nature, olive leaf is somewhat milder, and ashwaganda feels almost like actual high dose iodine. Not sure if olive leaf and k2 are attacking some Epstein barr virus hiding in the thyroid or if they simply stimulate it too much but they both actually caused hair loss as well so i cant use em currently at least.
 

ebs

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Even the normal rda of iodine makes me feel like ***t. I'm not sure if it's due to decreasing or increasing stress hormones. It can give me a hoarse voice which certainly isn't a good thing imo. Is it possible my thyroid is used to running on fluoride? I definitely don't get an adequate amount of iodine through my diet so don't understand the reaction. You're supposed to feel good when you supply your body with a nutrient it is in need of. I was tested on thyroid antibodies and hashimoto but the results were negative.
 

BigChad

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Even the normal rda of iodine makes me feel like ***t. I'm not sure if it's due to decreasing or increasing stress hormones. It can give me a hoarse voice which certainly isn't a good thing imo. Is it possible my thyroid is used to running on fluoride? I definitely don't get an adequate amount of iodine through my diet so don't understand the reaction. You're supposed to feel good when you supply your body with a nutrient it is in need of. I was tested on thyroid antibodies and hashimoto but the results were negative.

interesting what was your tsh? could you list out the foods and drinks you consume? whole milk is a significant source of iodine and beef, meats, seafood can be.
It's possible even rda amounts of iodine, if you are selenium deficient, can mess you up. I think that could be why people with hashimotos/thyroid issues get improvement after dropping milk.
idk if the thyroid can run on fluoride but i recall ray mentioning bromide has a function in the body and the thyroid can use it (if its naturally occuring bromide in meat etc). even though its rda amount of iodine you may need like 70mcg selenium alongside to tolerate it, maybe other vitamins/minerals as well. i never got anything when I used to use centrums adult multi which had a bunch of fillers, alongside vitamins, minerals iodine.
 

BigChad

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@Tarmander given the iodine content in milk do you have any ideas on how much iodine would be present in greek yogurt (non fat) or full fat ice creams? i wonder if those would also be significant iodine sources in which case you could be getting well over the rda if consuming milk, whey protein, cheese, yogurt, ice cream etc
 

Tarmander

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@Tarmander given the iodine content in milk do you have any ideas on how much iodine would be present in greek yogurt (non fat) or full fat ice creams? i wonder if those would also be significant iodine sources in which case you could be getting well over the rda if consuming milk, whey protein, cheese, yogurt, ice cream etc
Yeah I’m not sure man. That seems like something you could google though.
 

ebs

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interesting what was your tsh? could you list out the foods and drinks you consume? whole milk is a significant source of iodine and beef, meats, seafood can be.
It's possible even rda amounts of iodine, if you are selenium deficient, can mess you up. I think that could be why people with hashimotos/thyroid issues get improvement after dropping milk.
idk if the thyroid can run on fluoride but i recall ray mentioning bromide has a function in the body and the thyroid can use it (if its naturally occuring bromide in meat etc). even though its rda amount of iodine you may need like 70mcg selenium alongside to tolerate it, maybe other vitamins/minerals as well. i never got anything when I used to use centrums adult multi which had a bunch of fillers, alongside vitamins, minerals iodine.

I tried it for a couple of weeks along with 100-200 mcg of selenium but it didn't make me feel better. Selenium alone I have no issues with, it has a somwhat similar effect as zinc probably through its aromatase inhibition.

This iodine experiment was in april-may last year. My tsh tested 1.3 in July last year on two separate occasions.

During the iodine experiment I also started getting constipation/irritable bowel symptoms that to this day is still not resolved but I suspect the main culprits were niacinamide and dl-phenylananine as I was quite aggressively (and up to that point quite succesfully) trying to decrease serotonin.

Since my digestion issues I don't tolerate dairy anymore as it also makes the constipation much worse.

Nowadays these substances (especially higher dose niacinamide and the phenylananine) notably worsen the constipation so I stopped taking the latter and settled on using a lower dose niacinamide (since it is such a great nutrient with so many benefits).
 
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BigChad

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I tried it for a couple of weeks along with 100-200 mcg of selenium but I didn't make me feel better. Selenium alone I have no issues with, it has a somwhat similar effect as zinc probably through its aromatase inhibition.

This iodine experiment was in april-may last year. My tsh tested 1.3 in July last year on two separate occasions.

During the iodine experiment I also started getting constipation/irritable bowel symptoms that to this day is still not resolved but I suspect the main culprits were niacinamide and dl-phenylananine as I was quite aggressively (and up to that point quite succesfully) trying to decrease serotonin.

Nowadays these substances (especially higher dose niacinamide and the phenylananine) notably worsen the constipation so I stopped taking the latter and using a lower dose niacinamide (since it is such a great nutrient with so many benefits).

niacinamide caused bloating and indigestion for me as well, just 100mg of it. also caused hypothyroid type symptoms. basically would be sleepy the entire day after 100mg niacinamide. i believe it clears thyroid hormone from the bloodstream, thats why iodine protocol actually suggests megadosing niacin alongside the iodine.

selenium taken by itself in larger doses would make me go hypothyroid. it has a narrow range of value and is pretty risky taking above 200mcg a day especially without iodine.

20mg niacinamide as part of a multi didnt seem to cause anything noticeable. i didnt know phenylalanine caused constipation. i was considering taking 350mg n acetyl tyrosine daily though. was considering adding phenylalanine alongside it.

did you test your t3 and t4? that tsh seems to be high, something could be causing it, a mineral imbalance or deficiency. its within the range but 0.3, 0.5 etc would be better
 
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baccheion

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niacinamide caused bloating and indigestion for me as well, just 100mg of it. also caused hypothyroid type symptoms. basically would be sleepy the entire day after 100mg niacinamide. i believe it clears thyroid hormone from the bloodstream, thats why iodine protocol actually suggests megadosing niacin alongside the iodine.

selenium taken by itself in larger doses would make me go hypothyroid. it has a narrow range of value and is pretty risky taking above 200mcg a day especially without iodine.

20mg niacinamide as part of a multi didnt seem to cause anything noticeable. i didnt know phenylalanine caused constipation. i was considering taking 350mg n acetyl tyrosine daily though. was considering adding phenylalanine alongside it.

did you test your t3 and t4? that tsh seems to be high, something could be causing it, a mineral imbalance or deficiency. its within the range but 0.3, 0.5 etc would be better
Niacinamide also lowers cortisol and increases DHT IIRC.
 

ebs

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niacinamide caused bloating and indigestion for me as well, just 100mg of it. also caused hypothyroid type symptoms. basically would be sleepy the entire day after 100mg niacinamide. i believe it clears thyroid hormone from the bloodstream, thats why iodine protocol actually suggests megadosing niacin alongside the iodine.

selenium taken by itself in larger doses would make me go hypothyroid. it has a narrow range of value and is pretty risky taking above 200mcg a day especially without iodine.

20mg niacinamide as part of a multi didnt seem to cause anything noticeable. i didnt know phenylalanine caused constipation. i was considering taking 350mg n acetyl tyrosine daily though. was considering adding phenylalanine alongside it

Phenylananine is very potent anti-serotonin. It initially made me highly euphoric after taking it along with 500mg niacinamide. I got tears in my eyes from pure joy listening to music that's how good it made me feel for an hour or two. I've also read on this forum that phenylananine is a gaba antagonist so this combination may very well have triggered my digestion issues. I was probably too agressively suppressing serotonin while still having suboptimal metabolism and my bowel peristalsis was probably used to running on serotonin. That's my hypothesis anyway but it may also be developing scar tissue from surgery in my lower abdomen/pelvic area (removing varicocele embolization coils).

But the constipation issues literally started within a day out of nowhere so I suspect it was rather caused by these supplements.

It sucks I can't take this protocol anymore because it could make me feel as if I was on drugs (extreme joy and creative). Apparantly I was not supposed to feel that way because my body seems to have punished me for it.
 
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Cirion

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Phenylananine is very potent anti-serotonin. It initially made me highly euphoric after taking it (which was attenuated by 500mg niacinamide). I got tears in my eyes from pure joy listening to music that's how good it made me feel for an hour or two. I've also read on this forum that phenylananine is a gaba antagonist so this combination may very well have triggered my digestion issues. I was probably too agressively suppressing serotonin while still having suboptimal metabolism so my
bowel peristalsisa was probably used to running on seroronin. That's my hypothesis anyway but it may also be developing scar tissue from surgery in my lower abdomen/pelvic area (removing varicocele embolization coils).

But the constipation issues literally started within a day out of nowhere so I suspect it was rather caused by these suplaments.

It sucks I can't take this protocol anymore because it could make me feel as if I was on drugs (extreme joy and creative). Apparantly I was not supposed to feel that way because my body seems to have punished me for it.

Yeah not surprised.

Getting the amino acid balances right (lowering tryptophan and cysteine in particular) and raising the good ones (tyrosine, phenylananine, taurine, glycine) etc is pretty much one of the biggest keys to health. There's nothing wrong with euphoria and in fact you should desire it, but mega-dosing an individual amino acid may not be the best long-term solution,, and aiming to get certain amino ratios through diet manipulation is probably better long-term answer. Ray peat himself has said for example that glycine supplementation can be great short term but in the long term, using gelatin for glycine is likely better. Just one example.
 

ebs

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Yeah not surprised.

Getting the amino acid balances right (lowering tryptophan and cysteine in particular) and raising the good ones (tyrosine, phenylananine, taurine, glycine) etc is pretty much one of the biggest keys to health. There's nothing wrong with euphoria and in fact you should desire it, but mega-dosing an individual amino acid may not be the best long-term solution,, and aiming to get certain amino ratios through diet manipulation is probably better long-term answer. Ray peat himself has said for example that glycine supplementation can be great short term but in the long term, using gelatin for glycine is likely better. Just one example.

Yeah you're probably right, although I don't think I was megadosing phenylananine as I was using 700mg a day.

Interesting you bring up glycine, which I'm using about 3 grams a day for almost two years now as a cheaper alternative for gelatin (I'm not going to pay 30 bucks each month for that stuff).

Glycine has been mostly if not fully benefical but lately it feels as if my body is saturated with it as it doesn't give me the same effects as it used to. But I notice I start to feel worse when I stop taking it. For a while I also suspected it as a cause for the digestion issues along with taurine but I've ruled that out (stopping didn't resolve it and taking it doesn't make it worse as opposed to the other stuff - phenylananine, niacinamide and calcium).
 

BigChad

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Yeah not surprised.

Getting the amino acid balances right (lowering tryptophan and cysteine in particular) and raising the good ones (tyrosine, phenylananine, taurine, glycine) etc is pretty much one of the biggest keys to health. There's nothing wrong with euphoria and in fact you should desire it, but mega-dosing an individual amino acid may not be the best long-term solution,, and aiming to get certain amino ratios through diet manipulation is probably better long-term answer. Ray peat himself has said for example that glycine supplementation can be great short term but in the long term, using gelatin for glycine is likely better. Just one example.

Taurine seems to make me quite tired in 1000mg doses. glycine 700mg taken with 100mg magnesium glycinate seems to cause insomnia at night then fatigue the next day. with magnesium aspartate i dont get any such issues. it seems like there is something in glycine that interferes with sleep quality, staying asleep, etc. i remember on glycine even if i fell asleep I would wake up in the middle of the night. i havent tested out phenylalanine or tyrosine
 

ebs

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Taurine seems to make me quite tired in 1000mg doses. glycine 700mg taken with 100mg magnesium glycinate seems to cause insomnia at night then fatigue the next day. with magnesium aspartate i dont get any such issues. it seems like there is something in glycine that interferes with sleep quality, staying asleep, etc. i remember on glycine even if i fell asleep I would wake up in the middle of the night. i havent tested out phenylalanine or tyrosine

I've noticed that there can be significant differences between brands.

Now's glycine gives me zero effect while the glycine of the other two brands I've used had a notable calming effect and overtime made me susceptible to increased euphoria.

I also noticed that up to 3 grams have a calming and slightly sedative effect while going upwards it starts to feel stimulating and I feel slightly off. It doesn't have much effect on sleep for me as opposed to magnesium.

Taurine has clear gaba and dopamine promoting effect. It's the closest (safe) alternative for phenibut in my experience. Needless to say it works exceptionally well with coffee and mucuna pruriens. It enchanges mucuna pruriens' effect while it prevents the stress response of coffee.

But with Taurine I also noticed decreased benefits upwards of 2 grams.
 
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BigChad

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I've noticed that there can be significant differences between brands.

Now's glycine gives me zero effect while the glycine of the other two brands I've used had a notable calming effect and overtime made me susceptible to increased euphoria.

I also noticed that up to 3 grams have a calming and slightly sedative effect while going upwards it starts to feel stimulating and I feel slightly off. It doesn't have much effect on sleep for me as opposed to magnesium.

Taurine has clear gaba and dopamine promoting effect. It's the closest (safe) alternative for phenibut in my experience. Needless to say it works exceptionally well with coffee and mucuna pruriens. It attenuates mucuna pruriens' effect while it prevents the stress response of coffee.

But with Taurine I also noticed decreased benefits upwards of 2 grams.

i want to implement 2g taurine, split into 1g at morning 1g at night. do you know why it causes the fatigue feeling, does it do that for you too.
how does it attenuate mucuna pruriens effect. does it attenuate other things like other herbs, vitamins minerals
 

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