Loneliness Is The Real Cause Of Selfishness

[nikolabeacon]

So what if your honest and people disagree with you?

Its not about agreeing or disagreeing but just in being honest when it comes to personal limitations and understanding of things. You can not expect that everyone will agree with a same idea because there is not a one single same person on the planet . There is maybe one single "Law" but circumstances wil
Never allow for it to be One and the Same. Its about understanding and accepting that everyone is different and unique before you can even start to cooperate.

 

[meatbag]

Its not about agreeing or disagreeing but just in being honest when it comes to personal limitations and understanding of things. You can not expect that everyone will agree with a same idea because there is not a one single same person on the planet . There is maybe one single "Law" but circumstances wil
Never allow for it to be One and the Same. Its about understanding and accepting that everyone is different and unique before you can even start to cooperate.

If acceptance of different ideas is important than why do you consistently call Peat an 'autist'? You disagree with his proposals and agree with proposals made by others, which is all fine and good. But if everyone is unique why do you make so many general recommendations about what people should be doing? You write frequently of traditions, but traditions are made by agreement between individuals on a way of doing things, and this knowledge is passed down. You insult Peat for making recommendations, writing about his observations, making art work ( art can just be an individual making an expression of their experience), and sharing history, and has even provided simple experiments that can be conducted if one wishes to verify certain claims he makes (oxygen consumption by omega 6 fatty acids, the effects of copper on hairs).

There are truths; one needs food, water, and air to live. Don't think people differ on those. Okay what's next? Hmmm well it seems that if insufficient vitamin C is consumed then scurvy develops. And as we learn these things we go deeper, ask what more is required. When the necessities are met we ask, what more? Can things be better? How do know what is right? In our experiences we make perceptions. From these perceptions we form postulates, ideas of how things might be and we can then 'test' these ideas by performing actions and generating an experience. The observations from these test can be used to make better ideas of a good way of doing things. There is such a thing as empiricism and objective truth. Like the fact that when you're on the ocean and a boat approaches on the horizon, the top of the boat appears first no matter the direction it approaches the viewer from.

And agreement does matter in cooperation if anything is to be done. How can a group of individuals build a building if they don't agree of the plans to make the house? Should everyone just do their own thing on the building?

 

[Dessert_All_Day]

Hard to say. Women are very social by nature and they are full of estrogen. They appear to need the social support.
I have read that high testosterone can cause one to want to be isolated, but it's all debatable. One's worldviews can easily change how social a person is.
It would be great to be social if one has a healthy family to be around and healthy people; a happy community who have similar views and strive towards the same goals.
However when one lives in a degenerate society, where there are no common interests, it probably is better for you to be separated from them.

Many scientists and other great minds have accomplished much when alone.

Good points. In my experience, women generally need and value social support much more than men.

 

[Tarmander]

Lonely with no one to share your truth with... "I see this, can you see it? I think it is all that is good in the world...No? You cannot see?"

The more who cannot see what you see, the lonelier you feel. At a point, your hurt turns to anger, and fuels your desires for me and mine.

Ayn Rand. Imagine seeing what she saw in her country. Her burning knowing of greatness in man; his rationality the pinnacle. And her, surrounded by Bolsheviks. She must have felt very lonely.

 

[InChristAlone]

I am somewhat isolated as a stay at home Mom who doesn't go out much and it definitely has effected my mental status. I can be happy and love my family but there's always something just not quite right and so I seek connection online but it never fulfills! And I tend to latch on to people easily, all it takes is someone to look at me a certain way straight into my eyes into my soul and I feel connected to them. I feel seen without even having to talk to them. And then I just crave more of that.

 

[michael94]

Ayn Rand. Imagine seeing what she saw in her country. Her burning knowing of greatness in man; his rationality the pinnacle. And her, surrounded by Bolsheviks. She must have felt very lonely.

Nothing about Ayn Rand makes sense. She's an atheist yet a Zionist. She says money and "hard work" are virtues of society yet does not focus on the fraudulence of the American money supply, interest on foreign debt, and fractional reserve banking. Instead she harps on an on about how any form of cooperation is "collectivism." If you can't make a dollar from it then it has no virtue. Of course she fit right into America the country of extreme egotists that worship "rights" and democracy as end goals in and of themselves.


"America’s founding ideal was the principle of individual rights. Nothing more—and nothing less. The rest—everything that America achieved, everything she became, everything “noble and just,” and heroic, and great, and unprecedented in human history—was the logical consequence of fidelity to that one principle. The first consequence was the principle of political freedom, i.e., an individual’s freedom from physical compulsion, coercion or interference by the government. The next was the economic implementation of political freedom: the system of capitalism." - Ayn Rand

Here is America's actual founding ideal: https://puu.sh/wGIPp/b3e6e5e28a.jpg
American entrepeneurs in their natural habitat: https://puu.sh/wGIkz/cfa97ed99a.jpg

 

[Tarmander]

Nothing about Ayn Rand makes sense. She's an atheist yet a Zionist. She says money and "hard work" are virtues of society yet does not focus on the fraudulence of the American money supply, interest on foreign debt, and fractional reserve banking. Instead she harps on an on about how any form of cooperation is "collectivism." If you can't make a dollar from it then it has no virtue. Of course she fit right into America the country of extreme egotists that worship "rights" and democracy as end goals in and of themselves.


"America’s founding ideal was the principle of individual rights. Nothing more—and nothing less. The rest—everything that America achieved, everything she became, everything “noble and just,” and heroic, and great, and unprecedented in human history—was the logical consequence of fidelity to that one principle. The first consequence was the principle of political freedom, i.e., an individual’s freedom from physical compulsion, coercion or interference by the government. The next was the economic implementation of political freedom: the system of capitalism." - Ayn Rand

Here is America's actual founding ideal: https://puu.sh/wGIPp/b3e6e5e28a.jpg
American entrepeneurs in their natural habitat: https://puu.sh/wGIkz/cfa97ed99a.jpg

Have you read her books and her philosophy? If she doesn't make sense to you that would be a good place to start. I think no matter what conclusion you come to, she is worthy of respect. Her skill in writing is impressive given that English was her second language. Can you imagine if you moved to Russia and became a great Russian Novelist? A real showing of determination and skill.

She believed two things which might not be well known, and may lead to some confusion around her. First, she and those around her really thought Atlas Shrugged was going to change the world. They thought that it would blow the cultural psyche right out, and support for govt programs, fiat money, etc would collapse. The fact that things basically went on as before, combined with getting off Amphetamines, no doubt caused a great depression in her.

The second thing is that she thought love and rationality should be paired. Basically whoever was the most rational, should be loved the most. This also did not work as she hoped.

 

[Integra]

Lonely with no one to share your truth with... "I see this, can you see it? I think it is all that is good in the world...No? You cannot see?" The more who cannot see what you see, the lonelier you feel. At a point, your hurt turns to anger, and fuels your desires for me and mine.

This. I think this cuts to the core of the problem. If I see the world this way, and you see the world that way, and we're supposed to build something together, how do we go about it? That's the million dollar question. If my truth and your truth about how things are or should be are significantly different, or even worse, mutually exclusive, then I believe there's a One Contextual Truth that we can reach together if we start a dialectic process. This is where most people fail because they want to be right and look for validation instead of searching for answers.

Rather than looking for agreement, I think the way to go is to first look for understanding.

I am very curious, as I lack that gene in me, but why do you not only celebrate but insist on tradition so much @nikolabeacon ? You could say I'm your polar opposite as I think "**** all tradition" as long as it's in the way of progress. But then again, what's this "progress" I'm so obsessed with??? :)

Ayn Rand. Imagine seeing what she saw in her country. Her burning knowing of greatness in man; his rationality the pinnacle. And her, surrounded by Bolsheviks. She must have felt very lonely.

I really like how you shifted into her perspective to try to understand her position, whether it all "makes sense or not." Reading Ayn Rand made me aware of the emotional components that brought her to her "selfish objectivism," which I think is quite a wonderful worldview once unpacked. But of course, it has its problems in practical application, hehe...

I am somewhat isolated as a stay at home Mom who doesn't go out much and it definitely has effected my mental status. I can be happy and love my family but there's always something just not quite right and so I seek connection online but it never fulfills! And I tend to latch on to people easily, all it takes is someone to look at me a certain way straight into my eyes into my soul and I feel connected to them. I feel seen without even having to talk to them. And then I just crave more of that.

Could it be that you're not really looking for company or friends, but looking for something through them? It might seem like a radical statement, but I see anything beyond sharing time and space with other people solely for the pleasure of their company as a form of "using" others, and when I say using, I don't mean it as a bad thing--you could for example join groups (like this forum) where you look for intellectual stimulation from others, or interest groups where you're all centered on the same goal/pursuit/object, etc.--I'm just saying that you may want to "use" other people in ways that they don't want to be used, and they feel it.

They might feel something along the lines of "You don't really like me for being me, you just want to... fill in the blank." Most people can't even verbalize this, they simply get a feeling of not being 'seen' by you and back away. This scenario is especially likely because of your tendency to "cling" to others, and your craving for being 'seen' (recognized and validated), as you yourself described it. Do you try to see others? Who are they? Can you deeply focus on the other person in a conversation? Help them the way they want to be helped? Whatever you decide to do, that feeling that something is wrong, that something is off--please cherish it. It saved me mentally.

 

[InChristAlone]

Could it be that you're not really looking for company or friends, but looking for something through them? It might seem like a radical statement, but I see anything beyond sharing time and space with other people solely for the pleasure of their company as a form of "using" others, and when I say using, I don't mean it as a bad thing--you could for example join groups (like this forum) where you look for intellectual stimulation from others, or interest groups where you're all centered on the same goal/pursuit/object, etc.--I'm just saying that you may want to "use" other people in ways that they don't want to be used, and they feel it.

They might feel something along the lines of "You don't really like me for being me, you just want to... fill in the blank." Most people can't even verbalize this, they simply get a feeling of not being 'seen' by you and back away. This scenario is especially likely because of your tendency to "cling" to others, and your craving for being 'seen' (recognized and validated), as you yourself described it. Do you try to see others? Who are they? Can you deeply focus on the other person in a conversation? Help them the way they want to be helped? Whatever you decide to do, that feeling that something is wrong, that something is off--please cherish it. It saved me mentally.

I'm not sure what you mean I am using people? I get that my comment about craving connection can come off as I am just seeking it for my own pleasure, but you don't know me. I give all day everyday to my children, so I guess I don't have my cup filled very much, relationships are give and take, I wish my kids treated me with the same care I treat them, but we're still working on it. It has taken a while to have my own voice in what I need to be healthy in the family. To establish boundaries. To not just give and give until I'm empty. So maybe I just have nothing left to give anyone else, both my kids are strong willed sensitive types. When I spend time with other people I do not try to take from them. Even if I want to. I've gotten burned a few times by being there for people who just want to take from me so I get what you are saying that you think I'm doing that to people but I don't. But it sucks when I know someone who is holding back because they don't want to be burned. They have their wall up. Seems most people do nowadays. We could fill each other up with love so much if we didn't have walls up the size of mount Everest.

 

[Makrosky]

Lonely with no one to share your truth with... "I see this, can you see it? I think it is all that is good in the world...No? You cannot see?"

The more who cannot see what you see, the lonelier you feel. At a point, your hurt turns to anger, and fuels your desires for me and mine.

Ayn Rand. Imagine seeing what she saw in her country. Her burning knowing of greatness in man; his rationality the pinnacle. And her, surrounded by Bolsheviks. She must have felt very lonely.

It reminds me Carl G. Jung words (free translation from spanish) :
"As a child I felt lonely, and I still feel like that, because I see and point to things that others do not seem to see and don't even want to see them. Loneliness isn't about not having anyone around but it is about not being able to communicate the things one thinks are important, or to having to shut up about certain points of view that others find unproper".

 

[Pointless]

 

[Tarmander]

It reminds me Carl G. Jung words (free translation from spanish) :
"As a child I felt lonely, and I still feel like that, because I see and point to things that others do not seem to see and don't even want to see them. Loneliness isn't about not having anyone around but it is about not being able to communicate the things one thinks are important, or to having to shut up about certain points of view that others find unproper".

Jung nailed it. Really great quote.

 

[Tarmander]

I really like how you shifted into her perspective to try to understand her position, whether it all "makes sense or not." Reading Ayn Rand made me aware of the emotional components that brought her to her "selfish objectivism," which I think is quite a wonderful worldview once unpacked. But of course, it has its problems in practical application, hehe...

Thanks for the kind words. I also think her objectivism, when delved into, is pretty wonderful. It has its problems, but you could do a hell of a lot worse with some of the ideologies floating around these days. With her philosophy, you get the hard to swallow parts out in the open immediately instead of waiting years to realize your marching towards a gulag, or an occupation as a gulag guard.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Poor old Rand
Almost end up on the streets
Collecting welfare
After dissing Bolsheviks

 

[Fractality]

I'm not so sure there can be such a thing as a specific selfishness when the self is not easily defined. From whose perspective are we defining an action as selfish? One can decide to act a certain way and someone else will say it's selfish. However, isn't there an element of selfishness in that person who expects another to act a certain way?

 

[Regina]

Poor old Rand
Almost end up on the streets
Collecting welfare
After dissing Bolsheviks

 

[Tenacity]

I'm not so sure there can be such a thing as a specific selfishness when the self is not easily defined. From whose perspective are we defining an action as selfish? One can decide to act a certain way and someone else will say it's selfish. However, isn't there an element of selfishness in that person who expects another to act a certain way?

Yeah, I've always struggled with that use of selfishness. I don't think self-preservation could ever be rationalised as morally harmful. The only person who ever described me as selfish was a person who was trying to manipulate me.

 

[Simonsays]

So more collectivism and less individualism then.

 

[Dessert_All_Day]

I am somewhat isolated as a stay at home Mom who doesn't go out much and it definitely has effected my mental status. I can be happy and love my family but there's always something just not quite right and so I seek connection online but it never fulfills! And I tend to latch on to people easily, all it takes is someone to look at me a certain way straight into my eyes into my soul and I feel connected to them. I feel seen without even having to talk to them. And then I just crave more of that.

It's never going to be "quite right," despite what you see in television, movies and on social media. It's an illusion. Lasting happiness and fulfillment from others is supplemental and temporary. True happiness must come from within.

 

[InChristAlone]

It's never going to be "quite right," despite what you see in television, movies and on social media. It's an illusion. Lasting happiness and fulfillment from others is supplemental and temporary. True happiness must come from within.

True, and maybe I needed to make that comment to process something in order to let it go and realize no one else can fulfill me.