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People Can Die As A Result Of Giving Up (a State Caused By Low Dopamine)

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Oct 4, 2018.

  1. Nokoni

    Nokoni Member

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    Yeah basic energetics (thyroid, MB, etc.) is probably the best first line of defense, but diamant's dopaminergic effect, which can actually get uncomfortable if you don't need it, might have a place in tougher situations.
     
  2. Owen B

    Owen B Member

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    I've experimented with Naltrexone but I didn't really like it. It might be a good thing to have around when I have cataplexies (kind of seizures). (Prying the stuff out of my PCP was an ordeal and a half, BTW).

    But a Naloxone spray I haven't tried. I'll look into it.
     
  3. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Agreed. The supplements/drugs are just there for people who do not have access to that environment. You'd be surprised at how lonely/isolated most people are. The environment is deliberately designed to isolate and thus kill (socially first and then physically).
     
  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Progesterone, pregnenolone, DHEA and some other steroids also block the endorphins.
     
  5. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    True. Alcohol/drug abuse is the second highest chance. Cancer and CVD closely follow. All a result of degraded social network and support, and poisons everywhere, especially food. See my new thread on soluble fiber for more info. This crap is in everything sold commercially, even in drinks like soda and some coffees.
    Soluble Fiber Causes Liver Cancer, Insoluble And Antibiotics Prevent/stop It
     
  6. Owen B

    Owen B Member

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    You're probably right but there are a raft of different opioids and their receptors. I think that's why drugs like Naltrexone and Naloxone may not work in a lot of cases.

    Another problem is that opioids (which ones I can't say) are involved in the process of healthy infant/caregiver attachments. The failure of healthy bonding around those chemicals is probably how later life drug dependencies occur. The same is true for serotonin. So is it always wise to knock these chemicals down?

    I agree with you about serotonin's role in stress patterns but I wonder how it's possible to tell when they're necessary and when they're not. (Especially in terms of applications).
     
  7. Regina

    Regina Member

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    How can this discussion be bridged to this? War is better than having no support network. Yes, but is there some other explanation through a Peat lens?
     
  8. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Veterans miss war because it is a form of "addiction", based on low dopamine and high cortisol. Going to war temporarily increases dopamine just like alcohol but chronically exposed to war leads to even more CRH/cortisol and less dopamine.
    Stress Leads To Lower Dopamine And More Drinking

    Eventually it becomes PTSD with very high CRH and low cortisol. CHR is a highly inflammatory peptide and is probably the main cause (together with serotonin) in the high suicidal rate among veterans, as well as many brain diseases. Stress (duh) is the most potent inducer of CRH, and serotonin and CRH can increase each others' levels. If that doesn't make it obvious that stress directly causes disease/suicide then I don't have much hope for anybody with an MD degree.
    Corticotropin-releasing hormone - Wikipedia
    "...In the short term, CRH can suppress appetite, increase subjective feelings of anxiety, and perform other functions like boosting attention. Although the distal action of CRH is immunosuppression via the action of cortisol, CRH itself can actually heighten inflammation, a process being investigated in multiple sclerosis research."
     
  9. Regina

    Regina Member

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    Really appreciate your answer. I was feeling for this man as he spoke and you've filled in what I thought is being lost on him.
    Thank you.
     
  10. Owen B

    Owen B Member

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    As to the hormones, I've been experimenting with them since I started Peating but have not found much success.

    But since I experimented with Gonadin lately I've found that my progesterone response has changed. I get energy from it now instead of a sedating effect so I count that as a plus.

    The only other thing that has made a significant dent in the freeze is regular bag breathing. An immobility response is a massive brake on oxidative metabolism. The body literally goes into a kind of suspended animation. But bag breathing has increased my CO2 sensitivity and cut into the stupor and brain fog. It's been slow but steady improvement.

    But Diamant or Selegiline is definitely on my list.
     
  11. REOSIRENS

    REOSIRENS Member

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    It's not overconfidence it's just the drive to overcome life challenges... It's up to you to move forward(looking for better life) or standstill... ruminating the past...


    "And mental activity that challenges obsession and rigidity might be the most important brain energizer. Pseudo-optimism, humor-as-therapy, has a certain value, but a deeper optimism involves a willingness to assimilate new information and to change plans accordingly."

    Dr Raymond Peat
     
  12. milk

    milk Member

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    I became sick because of scrupulosity (the Christian term for OCD) when I was 17 years old.

    I still struggle with it, but it's way better now.

    One big element of my scrupulosity was guilt over "digital piracy", which... in the age of broadband internet access, it's insane. Everyone pirates, even people who think they don't. A great deal of the videos we watch on Youtube have been uploaded without permission from the rightful "copyright owners".

    The observable pattern is this: smart people pirate. Cinephiles torrent movies, music lovers use peer-to-peer software like Soulseek, gamers download ROMs and use emulators.

    The smarter you are and the deeper your interest in these kinds of media, the more you will find the "legal" venues (Netflix, Spotify, Steam) to be unsatisfactory. They're generally very, very bad. I was aghast as how bad Netflix's movie selection was when I tried their service.

    But most people don't have good or deep taste, and are satisfied with such services. Bring up piracy to them (particularly if they live in the United States), and they get scandalized. "You wouldn't steal a car", etc.

    After I began peating I began thinking of the cultural diet in terms of a cell. Cells absorb nutrients indiscriminately. Curiosity seems to function like a cell. The best way to become truly knowledgeable about something is to be truly interested in it. Read one book and it will suggest 50 other books. If you truly are curious you will read voraciously, your knowledge will grow exponentially. This is the attitude that the smartest and most cultured people would advise one to have.

    It doesn't matter if you did the "legal" thing and bought the books from Amazon (a global monopoly with a very fishy history) or if you downloaded them from a website like b-ok.org (favored by 4chan's literature board... again, the smartest people pirate).

    And then there are books like "Against Intellectual Property", by Stefan Kinsella, and "Against Intellectual Monopoly", by Michelle Boldrin and David K. Levine, which show how dirty the history of "intellectual property" laws are and how nefarious such laws more often than not prove themselves to be. In short, in the absence of IP laws societies grow more cultured; but when such laws are implemented media monopolies tend to be favoured to the detriment of the populace.

    I have been researching this stuff lately. I'm a lawful, obedient guy by temperament; it took a good deal of research to realize that the laws of my country (and of most countries) are actually insane and that to punctiliously follow them is pretty much suicide. (If you want to know how insane this issue gets, look up the "Special 301 Report". Essentially, through threat of economic sanctions, the United States are forcing the whole world to adopt stricter IP laws so that American monopolies may sell their wares to them. Big Pharma and Monsanto are among the companies behind this.)

    So yeah, I guess I'm a libertarian now. It turns out the libertarians are right. In light of all this, a "F#ck the State" attitude strikes me as perfectly reasonable. Piracy as civil disobedience, if you will.

    Sorry for the long post. I hope it rings a bell with someone out there.
     
  13. Nokoni

    Nokoni Member

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    Wise words indeed. Thank you. :):
     
  14. lollipop

    lollipop Guest

    Love this quote @REOSIRENS - I want to put on my FB feed :):
     
  15. REOSIRENS

    REOSIRENS Member

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    "The inhibitory serotonergic "harm avoidance" system, and the opposing excitatory activating "novelty seeking" systems are constantly being influenced by many factors, including nutrition, hormones, environmental challenges and opportunities, social interactions, seasons, and the rhythm of night and day alternation.

    Several kinds of research are now showing that the effects of the environment on the serotonergic system and its antagonists can influence every aspect of health, not just the personality."

    Dr Raymond Peat

    Serotonin is high in traumatic experiences and it just tells you to avoid things that you are not in control...tells you to retreat and isolate... If your physiological machinery is quite weak and needs to rest in short term it's useful...but when it traps you in this vicious circle of learned helplessness it will always tell you-world is mean gray and there is no interesting people to meet or talk... people are mean and boring...you don't need people in your life...all foreigners are dangerous...you will never succeed...you are not good enough...you don't look good enough...don't engage in a conversation because people will make fun of you

    Best way to counter is by activating dopaminergic system:
    Socialize
    Sunlight
    Going out(don't stay indoors if possible)
    Have goals in life and try to achieve them
    Travel
    Meet new people
    Hobbies Art
    Finish College (it will help you to have more professional options in life)
    Volunteering
     
  16. Dobbler

    Dobbler Member

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    This is very interesting. It's like chicken or egg situation. Which came first, high serotonin or stress/learned helplessness. It can go both ways.

    In my case, i was a happy kid. But what i thinked pushed me over the edge was stressful job, very bad diet, little bit of overtraining and messing around with IF and couple antibacterial components. Boom, completely ****88 up. From then its been rollercoaster ride , and not for the better. 3 years and im still ****88 up, mentally and physically. Its a rough ride. Todays society is so ****88 up you can go from happy care free to completely unable to function in mere days once you reach your limit. And when that happens, "having goals in life" or "meet new people" is like talking to a brick wall.
     
  17. Makrosky

    Makrosky Member

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    Very easy : accept the way you are. "A true chronic defeat" LOL!!! Your point of view is a true defeat!!
     
  18. SuperiorFatties

    SuperiorFatties Member

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    You bald?
     
  19. Nokoni

    Nokoni Member

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    Chronic inescapable stress can certainly make life harder but I agree with many of the comments here that it is likely to be helpful to add in some new and different activities. Exercise is good but it doesn’t have to be a big deal. The idea is to reduce stress, not increase it. For anyone who doesn’t already exercise, just doing a little stretching would make a difference. Or read a book. Doesn’t have to be Ulysses, probably any book will do. Don’t have to read it x hours per day, or even finish it, but if it’s a change from current daily habits it’s likely to help. Physical books might be best. A walk outside is a good idea. Even once around the house or the apartment building is a start that will add a little benefit. And so on. Then whichever activities turn out to be more appealing, continue doing those. Enough little benefits and they start to add up. I think smaller goals that can give a nice feeling of accomplishment are a better way to get started.

    And energetics is also important. To me it’s a very big deal. It’s what this place is mostly about and everything is easier when the cells are charged up.
     
  20. jitsmonkey

    jitsmonkey Member

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    I think this is a wonderful suggestion.
    I'd add to this that we live in a culture that fails to value small things.
    so "exercise" involves herculean efforts
    "reading" involves something "useful/meaningful"
    "meditation" involves sitting like a monk for hours on end.
    (@Nokoni I appreciated you noting this)
    One of the THE most pivotal points in my recovery which has been horrifically slow
    and continues to this day...... but has been as consistent as the day is long and the sun/moon rise
    was the moment I realized that every single effort on my own behalf no matter how small
    was ENORMOUSLY significant. My yoga practice began with literally crawling out of bed and unrolling my yoga mat and sitting on my mat for a few
    seconds or minutes and crawling back in bed. Just getting to the mat became a win.
    The voices in my head would scream how "that's nothing".
    It was embarrassing even though nobody even knew.
    but just the act of allowing the most smallest of self affirming actions COUNT
    made more difference than anything else.
    If all you can do is make sure you eat ONE thing tomorrow you know you want to
    Or if all you can do is brush 2 teeth
    the acknowledgement that every act of self affirmation no matter how micro matters
    is a radical act.
     
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