haidut

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
17,431
Location
USA / Europe
Ask any doctor if loss of hope can kill and he/she will laugh in your face. Even if you use the more scientific term "learned helplessness" you will still be laughed out of the room. Well, the study below shows that "give-up-itis" (GUI) is quite real and can reliably kill a person if it takes a strong enough hold. Perhaps more importantly, the study claims that the direct cause of giving up is dramatically lowered dopamine levels as a result of the inescapable stress/trauma. Given dopamine's perfect inverse relationship with serotonin, it becomes quite clear that high serotonin is anything but a state to be desired and any entity selling/promoting serotonergic drugs is participating in medical genocide. Unsurprisingly, the study mentions dopamine agonists as possible treatment of extreme cases of learned helplessness. For milder cases, simply reframing the problem in a more positive light could be enough to break free.
Furthermore, the study shows that it is events of chronic stress/defeat/inescapability that lead to the dopamine exhaustion and giving up. As such, initial mild apathy and withdrawal seen in people in early stages of learned helplessness is adaptive and beneficial, in an attempt to avoid the "defeating" event and thus replenish dopamine levels. Interestingly enough, the term "chronic social defeat" is extremely well-known in animal research of any kind (rodents, reptiles, amphibians, apes, etc) and is known as a reliable way to quickly induce chronic disease in ANY animal, including conditions such as diabetes, cancer, Alzheimer, Parkinson, CVD, etc. An example of such events would be public verbal, physical or emotional abuse by an individual with higher social status. Unsuccessful competition for job promotion, romantic partner, major sport event, or even being stuck in traffic while late for a VERY important meeting are other common examples of such social defeat events.
An even more pernicious and sinister approach is known as "chronic unpredictable mild stress" (CUMS) as animals subjected to it develop subtle metabolic changes over a long period of time that eventually lead to the same devastating diseases. Yet on paper, the animal is mostly healthy and the eventual disease cannot really be traced to any single event in the animal's life. An example of such events would be your bank charging you overdraft fees, pesky emails from your boss while on vacation, marketing calls at the least appropriate times, persistent "multitasking" leading to feelings of being overwhelmed with work, etc.
I think it is rather obvious for most forum users that most people in the Western world experience CUMS on a daily basis. As such, there should be no surprise or mystery as to the cause of the chronic diseases around us that kill so many (often young) people. What a perfect tool for the powers that be!

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987718306145?via=ihub
"...People with reduced dopamine levels tend towards apathy, lack a zest for life and often have an impairment in routine actions such as walking which is normally slowed and observed as a shuffling gait [50]. This slow shuffling movement has been observed in PoWs and camp prisoners during stage II GUI and is a mark of defeat. Such motor movement is also observed in conditions such as Parkinson’s disease (PD) with patients showing a shuffling gait, stooped posture and bradykinesia. However, whereas PD is considered to be a multisystem neurodegenerative disorder with dopamine depletion occurring in the substantia nigra (SN), GUI appears to be more a single circuit dysfunction consequent upon DA disequilibrium in the nucleus accumbens. Whilst there is an indirect link between the NAc and the SN this is to the dorsal region rather than the ventrolateral region that is implicated in PD. The evidence suggests that PD and GUI have parallel architectures."

"...In certain clinical conditions differences in the severity of apathy is considered to be at least partly a dopamine-dependent syndrome [51]; aboulia is suggested to be a dopamine-related dysfunction [46], and DA agents are used successfully to counter apathy and treat psychic akinesia [47]. Functional brain imaging studies further suggest that the physiopathology of demotivation can, at least partially, be explained by a dysfunction of the dopaminergic system [52]. Given the concordance between apathetic, aboulic and psychic akinetic patients and stages IIIV GUI it is possible that GUI is also a DA-related dysfunction with the severity of GUI being associated with the level of depletion of DA in the ACC. Clinical studies show that as DA activity decreases behaviours disappear in the following sequence: spontaneous behaviour, internally guided behaviour, conditioned behaviour and externally guided behaviour [53] which is consistent with the observed progression of GUI syndrome. DA depletion is also associated with anhedonia that also presents in GUI and general anhedonia is associated with stress that is uncontrollable and unpredictable [54]."

"...GUI commonly occurs in a traumatic situation from which there is, or is perceived to be, no escape and over which a person has little or no influence. Essentially, the GUI victim sees him or herself as being defeated. Cruickshank [58] thought that many of the behavioural symptoms exhibited by his patients in the Japanese PoW camp at Changi were as much, ‘…the result of fighting a losing battle’ as of the disease. This cognitive appraisal of defeat in GUI victims is important as stress has differential effects on DA levels in the PFC and the NAc which depend on whether the stressful condition is perceived to be escapable or inescapable [58]."

"...The increase or decrease in DA transmission reflects different coping styles with high levels of NAc DA associated with an active coping response and inhibition of DA in the NAc being associated with a passive coping response. The active problem-focused approach, which targets the source of stress, is used when the stressor can be controlled or avoided, and the passive emotion-focused approach, that targets the emotional arousal that sustains stress responses, is employed when the stressor is uncontrollable or inescapable [61]. If active coping is not possible then sustained activation of cortical DA production leads to a profound inhibition of NAc DA release resulting in behavioural impairments and abnormalities in mechanisms of motivation, including withdrawal and apathy [60,62] that are comparable to those observed in GUI victims. The appraisal of the trauma as uncontrollable inhibits DA transmission in the NAc shifting the organism into passive coping to save energy and reduce risk [56]. Furthermore, this resultant withdrawal and inactivity may serve a ‘replenishing’ function [63] and supports the idea of withdrawal and apathy, observed in Stages I and II GUI, being an initial adaptive and protective mechanism. Similarly, in both human and animal studies, passive coping is associated with blunting stress-induced emotional arousal [64] which is consistent with field observations that passive behaviours were seen as a form of protection and as a necessary mechanism of self-defence [20,22]."

"...A common observation was that people died between three days to three weeks from the onset of a ‘fatal withdrawal’ or GUI if the person was not forced to respond to his environment [1]. It is possible to recover from even extreme stages of GUI as it is to recover from comparable clinical conditions of apathy, aboulia and psychic akinesia, although in the latter cases usually through administering DA agonists such as bromocriptine, ropinirole, etc. Clearly, such drug interventions are not available within a natural traumatic situation but other fieldexpedient methods for increasing motivation and recovering adaptive, goal-directed behaviour have been reported. Stage I GUI reversal can be achieved through self-motivation that is supported through previous experience or training; Stage II by more effortful self-motivation and external motivators, e.g. friends, family, duty, responsibility etc.; Stage III through strong external motivators, and early Stage IV through very strong external motivators although these may cease to be effective in the latter phase of Stage IV and early Stage V GUI."


People can die from giving up the fight
"...People can die simply because they've given up, life has beaten them and they feel defeat is inescapable, according to new research. The study, by Dr John Leach, a senior research fellow at the University of Portsmouth, is the first to describe the clinical markers for 'give-up-itis', a term used to describe what is known medically as psychogenic death. It usually follows a trauma from which a person thinks there is no escape, making death seem like the only rational outcome. If not arrested, death usually occurs three weeks after the first stage of withdrawal.

"...He describes in clinical detail the five stages leading to progressive psychological decline and suggests give-up-itis could stem from a change in a frontal-subcortical circuit of the brain governing how a person maintains goal-directed behaviour. The likely candidate in the brain is the anterior cingulate circuit, responsible for motivation and initiating goal-directed behaviours. He said: "Severe trauma might trigger some people's anterior cingulate circuit to malfunction. Motivation is essential for coping with life and if that fails, apathy is almost inevitable." Death isn't inevitable in someone suffering from give-up-itis and can be reversed by different things at each stage. The most common interventions are physical activity and/or a person being able to see a situation is at least partially within their control, both of which trigger the release of the feel-good chemical dopamine. "Reversing the give-up-itis slide towards death tends to come when a survivor finds or recovers a sense of choice, of having some control, and tends to be accompanied by that person licking their wounds and taking a renewed interest in life," he said."
 

Fractality

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
772
It takes great mental fortitude to be able to not let all these things affect you. Seeing people around you degenerate into old age, die, reading the daily news, disappointing other people and yourself by not living up to the standards of the culture you live in, on and on. Physical activity is definitely key. A bike ride or hike in nature is the most therapeutic thing I experience. It definitely provides a feeling of being grounded and centered; as opposed to the sharp highs and lows of work/career/social expectations/drugs/alcohol.
 

Collden

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
587
Yeah, motivation is everything, live life with a strong sense of purpose and you can remain energized in the face of enormous stressors and subpar nutrition/environment. Be stuck in a career you hate knowing that you are not doing what you should be doing or you're not where you should be, and you'll be depressed and sick no matter how good your diet is or how much sunshine you get.

Can giving up be a good thing though? You say it initially acts as a defense mechanism to reduce stress levels, but it seems giving up can also spark a transition towards something new. Giving up could be seen as an act of rebellion where you begin to reject the old system and values that you were previously motivated by, and opens you up to living for something different. Kind of like Peter Gibbons in Office Space.
 
Last edited:

zewe

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2018
Messages
265
@haidut :"Ask any doctor if loss of hope can kill and he/she will laugh in your face."

In Viktor Frankl's book, "Man's Search for Meaning," he talked about knowing that the ones in the Nazi concentration camps who gave up hope would die.

"Those who know how close the connection is between the state of mind of a man—his courage and hope, or lack of them—and the state of immunity of his body will understand that the sudden loss of hope and courage can have a deadly effect.
Viktor E. Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning
 

Ulysses

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Messages
290
Yes, I think this may actually be how my medical saga began... nine years later, although much recovered, I still feel unwell. It’s a profound experience.
 

Dobbler

Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Messages
579
This is some redpill sh*t right here once again. Good stuff! Feels good to know this. "Real life" stress is definitely a true killer, not just physically , but mentally aswell. People dont understand how stressful this fast-paced toxic culture is. I hate to admit that i've been in this situation countless times and even right now. But best you can do is to recognize that there is a problem. But sometimes the situations are so inescapable that all you can do is suffer.

I personally think stress lowering substances would be a better choice than dopamine to be honest. Boosting dopamine chemically can be very uncomfortable, where as stress lowering substances are much more user friendly.
 

Blossom

Moderator
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
8,547
Ask any doctor if loss of hope can kill and he/she will laugh in your face. Even if you use the more scientific term "learned helplessness" you will still be laughed out of the room. Well, the study below shows that "give-up-itis" (GUI) is quite real and can reliably kill a person if it takes a strong enough hold. Perhaps more importantly, the study claims that the direct cause of giving up is dramatically lowered dopamine levels as a result of the inescapable stress/trauma. Given dopamine's perfect inverse relationship with serotonin, it becomes quite clear that high serotonin is anything but a state to be desired and any entity selling/promoting serotonergic drugs is participating in medical genocide. Unsurprisingly, the study mentions dopamine agonists as possible treatment of extreme cases of learned helplessness. For milder cases, simply reframing the problem in a more positive light could be enough to break free.
Furthermore, the study shows that it is events of chronic stress/defeat/inescapability that lead to the dopamine exhaustion and giving up. As such, initial mild apathy and withdrawal seen in people in early stages of learned helplessness is adaptive and beneficial, in an attempt to avoid the "defeating" event and thus replenish dopamine levels. Interestingly enough, the term "chronic social defeat" is extremely well-known in animal research of any kind (rodents, reptiles, amphibians, apes, etc) and is known as a reliable way to quickly induce chronic disease in ANY animal, including conditions such as diabetes, cancer, Alzheimer, Parkinson, CVD, etc. An example of such events would be public verbal, physical or emotional abuse by an individual with higher social status. Unsuccessful competition for job promotion, romantic partner, major sport event, or even being stuck in traffic while late for a VERY important meeting are other common examples of such social defeat events.
An even more pernicious and sinister approach is known as "chronic unpredictable mild stress" (CUMS) as animals subjected to it develop subtle metabolic changes over a long period of time that eventually lead to the same devastating diseases. Yet on paper, the animal is mostly healthy and the eventual disease cannot really be traced to any single event in the animal's life. An example of such events would be your bank charging you overdraft fees, pesky emails from your boss while on vacation, marketing calls at the least appropriate times, persistent "multitasking" leading to feelings of being overwhelmed with work, etc.
I think it is rather obvious for most forum users that most people in the Western world experience CUMS on a daily basis. As such, there should be no surprise or mystery as to the cause of the chronic diseases around us that kill so many (often young) people. What a perfect tool for the powers that be!

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987718306145?via=ihub
"...People with reduced dopamine levels tend towards apathy, lack a zest for life and often have an impairment in routine actions such as walking which is normally slowed and observed as a shuffling gait [50]. This slow shuffling movement has been observed in PoWs and camp prisoners during stage II GUI and is a mark of defeat. Such motor movement is also observed in conditions such as Parkinson’s disease (PD) with patients showing a shuffling gait, stooped posture and bradykinesia. However, whereas PD is considered to be a multisystem neurodegenerative disorder with dopamine depletion occurring in the substantia nigra (SN), GUI appears to be more a single circuit dysfunction consequent upon DA disequilibrium in the nucleus accumbens. Whilst there is an indirect link between the NAc and the SN this is to the dorsal region rather than the ventrolateral region that is implicated in PD. The evidence suggests that PD and GUI have parallel architectures."

"...In certain clinical conditions differences in the severity of apathy is considered to be at least partly a dopamine-dependent syndrome [51]; aboulia is suggested to be a dopamine-related dysfunction [46], and DA agents are used successfully to counter apathy and treat psychic akinesia [47]. Functional brain imaging studies further suggest that the physiopathology of demotivation can, at least partially, be explained by a dysfunction of the dopaminergic system [52]. Given the concordance between apathetic, aboulic and psychic akinetic patients and stages IIIV GUI it is possible that GUI is also a DA-related dysfunction with the severity of GUI being associated with the level of depletion of DA in the ACC. Clinical studies show that as DA activity decreases behaviours disappear in the following sequence: spontaneous behaviour, internally guided behaviour, conditioned behaviour and externally guided behaviour [53] which is consistent with the observed progression of GUI syndrome. DA depletion is also associated with anhedonia that also presents in GUI and general anhedonia is associated with stress that is uncontrollable and unpredictable [54]."

"...GUI commonly occurs in a traumatic situation from which there is, or is perceived to be, no escape and over which a person has little or no influence. Essentially, the GUI victim sees him or herself as being defeated. Cruickshank [58] thought that many of the behavioural symptoms exhibited by his patients in the Japanese PoW camp at Changi were as much, ‘…the result of fighting a losing battle’ as of the disease. This cognitive appraisal of defeat in GUI victims is important as stress has differential effects on DA levels in the PFC and the NAc which depend on whether the stressful condition is perceived to be escapable or inescapable [58]."

"...The increase or decrease in DA transmission reflects different coping styles with high levels of NAc DA associated with an active coping response and inhibition of DA in the NAc being associated with a passive coping response. The active problem-focused approach, which targets the source of stress, is used when the stressor can be controlled or avoided, and the passive emotion-focused approach, that targets the emotional arousal that sustains stress responses, is employed when the stressor is uncontrollable or inescapable [61]. If active coping is not possible then sustained activation of cortical DA production leads to a profound inhibition of NAc DA release resulting in behavioural impairments and abnormalities in mechanisms of motivation, including withdrawal and apathy [60,62] that are comparable to those observed in GUI victims. The appraisal of the trauma as uncontrollable inhibits DA transmission in the NAc shifting the organism into passive coping to save energy and reduce risk [56]. Furthermore, this resultant withdrawal and inactivity may serve a ‘replenishing’ function [63] and supports the idea of withdrawal and apathy, observed in Stages I and II GUI, being an initial adaptive and protective mechanism. Similarly, in both human and animal studies, passive coping is associated with blunting stress-induced emotional arousal [64] which is consistent with field observations that passive behaviours were seen as a form of protection and as a necessary mechanism of self-defence [20,22]."

"...A common observation was that people died between three days to three weeks from the onset of a ‘fatal withdrawal’ or GUI if the person was not forced to respond to his environment [1]. It is possible to recover from even extreme stages of GUI as it is to recover from comparable clinical conditions of apathy, aboulia and psychic akinesia, although in the latter cases usually through administering DA agonists such as bromocriptine, ropinirole, etc. Clearly, such drug interventions are not available within a natural traumatic situation but other fieldexpedient methods for increasing motivation and recovering adaptive, goal-directed behaviour have been reported. Stage I GUI reversal can be achieved through self-motivation that is supported through previous experience or training; Stage II by more effortful self-motivation and external motivators, e.g. friends, family, duty, responsibility etc.; Stage III through strong external motivators, and early Stage IV through very strong external motivators although these may cease to be effective in the latter phase of Stage IV and early Stage V GUI."


People can die from giving up the fight
"...People can die simply because they've given up, life has beaten them and they feel defeat is inescapable, according to new research. The study, by Dr John Leach, a senior research fellow at the University of Portsmouth, is the first to describe the clinical markers for 'give-up-itis', a term used to describe what is known medically as psychogenic death. It usually follows a trauma from which a person thinks there is no escape, making death seem like the only rational outcome. If not arrested, death usually occurs three weeks after the first stage of withdrawal.

"...He describes in clinical detail the five stages leading to progressive psychological decline and suggests give-up-itis could stem from a change in a frontal-subcortical circuit of the brain governing how a person maintains goal-directed behaviour. The likely candidate in the brain is the anterior cingulate circuit, responsible for motivation and initiating goal-directed behaviours. He said: "Severe trauma might trigger some people's anterior cingulate circuit to malfunction. Motivation is essential for coping with life and if that fails, apathy is almost inevitable." Death isn't inevitable in someone suffering from give-up-itis and can be reversed by different things at each stage. The most common interventions are physical activity and/or a person being able to see a situation is at least partially within their control, both of which trigger the release of the feel-good chemical dopamine. "Reversing the give-up-itis slide towards death tends to come when a survivor finds or recovers a sense of choice, of having some control, and tends to be accompanied by that person licking their wounds and taking a renewed interest in life," he said."
Thanks for posting this @haidut.

Yes, I think this may actually be how my medical saga began... nine years later, although much recovered, I still feel unwell. It’s a profound experience.
I think the same or it'sa large part of the puzzle anyway. I don't feel unwell but I could easily go back to that life if I wasn't proactive about things. It seems like once you've been there you have to remain mindful of implementing strategies to help prevent falling back into that way of not fully living again. Maybe if our culture were different but the system right now seems geared toward reactivating that state.
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
17,431
Location
USA / Europe

Thanks, I think this line from the study sums up the mechanism nicely. I think Peat would agree with that statement.
"...Thus, according to Cannon, death would result as a consequence of the state of shock produced by the continuous outpouring of adrenalin. Voodooed individuals would, therefore, be expected to breathe very rapidly, have a rapid pulse, and show a hemoconcentration resulting from loss of fluids from the blood to the tissues. The heart would beat faster and faster, gradually leading to a state of constant contraction and, ultimately, to death in systole"
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
17,431
Location
USA / Europe
@haidut :"Ask any doctor if loss of hope can kill and he/she will laugh in your face."

In Viktor Frankl's book, "Man's Search for Meaning," he talked about knowing that the ones in the Nazi concentration camps who gave up hope would die.

"Those who know how close the connection is between the state of mind of a man—his courage and hope, or lack of them—and the state of immunity of his body will understand that the sudden loss of hope and courage can have a deadly effect.
Viktor E. Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning

Good quote, thanks. Based on his biography, he apparently faced and recovered from GUI. So, his book and views are that much more relevant.
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
17,431
Location
USA / Europe
Can giving up be a good thing though? You say it initially acts as a defense mechanism to reduce stress levels, but it seems giving up can also spark a transition towards something new. Giving up could be seen as an act of rebellion where you begin to reject the old system and values that you were previously motivated by, and opens you up to living for something different. Kind of like Peter Gibbons in Office Space.

I would call this changing one's mind. The meaning of GUI in the study was just complete apathy without anything as a goal/purpose remaining. What you refer to seems more like giving up on a specific (ineffective?) idea and replacing it with another one. As long something replaces what was given up this is not GUI but simply natural change ubiquitous in the world.
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
17,431
Location
USA / Europe
I personally think stress lowering substances would be a better choice than dopamine to be honest. Boosting dopamine chemically can be very uncomfortable, where as stress lowering substances are much more user friendly.

I agree. In my opinion an anti-serotonin or cortisol blocker would be less risky and still achieve the same effect. Dopamine agonists seem to be such hit and miss for many but for some they work remarkably well.
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
17,431
Location
USA / Europe
I think the same or it'sa large part of the puzzle anyway. I don't feel unwell but I could easily go back to that life if I wasn't proactive about things. It seems like once you've been there you have to remain mindful of implementing strategies to help prevent falling back into that way of not fully living again. Maybe if our culture were different but the system right now seems geared toward reactivating that state.

The reason you (and probably everybody living in a modern society) keep falling back to the same helplessness pattern is because the environment we live has been purposefully engineered to drive us in that direction. The most pernicious aspect of this design is to eliminate meaningful choices, in order to create the view that no matter what we do the outcome will always be the same (and usually negative). I think Peat sees diet as one of the few remaining aspects of our lives where we still have choice, a chance of finding purpose and a feeling of empowerment. But it does not have to be diet. Having a great/functioning relationship with even one other human being can be a great motivator and shield against apathy, as can work in a way that helps others. Note how the public opinion from the last 10-15 years or so is purposefully manipulated to put down the "do-gooders". That is not by accident. The powers that be know what tools the masses need to be empowered and are actively working to subvert them. But at least the cat is out of the bag now.
New Page Title Here
"...Possibly the most toxic component of our environment is the way the society has been designed, to eliminate meaningful choices for most people. In the experiment of Freund, et al., some mice became more exploratory because of the choices they made, while others' lives became more routinized and limited. Our culture reinforces routinized living. In the absence of opportunities to vary the way you work and live to accord with new knowledge that you gain, the nutritional, hormonal and physical factors have special importance. Supplements of thyroid and progesterone are proven to be generally protective against the cholinergic threats, but there are many other factors that can be adjusted according to particular needs. Niacinamide, like progesterone, inhibits the production of nitric oxide, and also like progesterone, it improves recovery from brain injury (Hoane, et al., 2008). In genetically altered mice with an Alzheimer's trait, niacinamide corrects the defect (Green, et al., 2008). Drugs such as atropine and antihistamines can be used in crisis situations. Bright light, without excess ultraviolet, should be available every day. The cholinergic system is much more than a part of the nervous system, and is involved in cell metabolism and tissue renewal. Most people can benefit from reducing intake of phosphate, iron, and polyunsaturated fats (which can inhibit cholinesterase; Willis, et al., 2009), and from choosing foods that reduce production and absorption of endotoxin. And, obviously, drugs that are intended to increase the effects of nitric oxide (asparagine, zildenafil/Viagra, minoxidil/Rogaine) and acetylcholine (bethanechol, benzpyrinium, etc.) should be avoided."
 

Soren

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Messages
1,141
Fascinating post! Would explain why so many people die shortly after retiring. They have nothing left to live for and their dopamine levels collapse.
 

Blossom

Moderator
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
8,547
The reason you (and probably everybody living in a modern society) keep falling back to the same helplessness pattern is because the environment we live has been purposefully engineered to drive us in that direction. The most pernicious aspect of this design is to eliminate meaningful choices, in order to create the view that no matter what we do the outcome will always be the same (and usually negative). I think Peat sees diet as one of the few remaining aspects of our lives where we still have choice, a chance of finding purpose and a feeling of empowerment. But it does not have to be diet. Having a great/functioning relationship with even one other human being can be a great motivator and shield against apathy, as can work in a way that helps others. Note how the public opinion from the last 10-15 years or so is purposefully manipulated to put down the "do-gooders". That is not by accident. The powers that be know what tools the masses need to be empowered and are actively working to subvert them. But at least the cat is out of the bag now.
New Page Title Here
"...Possibly the most toxic component of our environment is the way the society has been designed, to eliminate meaningful choices for most people. In the experiment of Freund, et al., some mice became more exploratory because of the choices they made, while others' lives became more routinized and limited. Our culture reinforces routinized living. In the absence of opportunities to vary the way you work and live to accord with new knowledge that you gain, the nutritional, hormonal and physical factors have special importance. Supplements of thyroid and progesterone are proven to be generally protective against the cholinergic threats, but there are many other factors that can be adjusted according to particular needs. Niacinamide, like progesterone, inhibits the production of nitric oxide, and also like progesterone, it improves recovery from brain injury (Hoane, et al., 2008). In genetically altered mice with an Alzheimer's trait, niacinamide corrects the defect (Green, et al., 2008). Drugs such as atropine and antihistamines can be used in crisis situations. Bright light, without excess ultraviolet, should be available every day. The cholinergic system is much more than a part of the nervous system, and is involved in cell metabolism and tissue renewal. Most people can benefit from reducing intake of phosphate, iron, and polyunsaturated fats (which can inhibit cholinesterase; Willis, et al., 2009), and from choosing foods that reduce production and absorption of endotoxin. And, obviously, drugs that are intended to increase the effects of nitric oxide (asparagine, zildenafil/Viagra, minoxidil/Rogaine) and acetylcholine (bethanechol, benzpyrinium, etc.) should be avoided."
Great Peat quote! I definitely agree with everything said. In addition I personally find movement in nature when possible, red light and attention to my spirituality critical pieces to recovering from a toxic dose of the system!
ETA: and mostly avoid t.v.
 
Last edited:

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,673
Location
USA
Fascinating post! Would explain why so many people die shortly after retiring. They have nothing left to live for and their dopamine levels collapse.
I have seen cats works wonders for this situation. And a chihuahua.
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2018
Messages
46
Yeah but some traumas are definitely lasting and there is no escape for most, like being bald. I would say that's true chronic defeat. Even some fat people never lose the weight, and it's a never-ending battle. What would you do in those cases?

My experiences with Western culture so far have been that people are generally quite nice, and that most of the moral issues I've endured, the insults, etc. came from multicultural circles and what they call 'white trash'. Loitering youth that seemed to drag down whoever they disliked. Some of the 'business types' were also awful. I come from Europe though, and I wouldn't be surprised if Americans are far more competitive.
 

mujuro

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2014
Messages
695
For me, this is why cigarettes were probably worth the risks. I would never feel "defeated" when I smoked.
 

Sheik

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
632
Scary.

Somewhat related: I was just reading about how baby boys often get PTSD from circumcision, and how that's linked to autism. People can go though their whole lives not knowing their chronic emotional problems are due to being circumcised as a baby. I know people who think that life simply sucks and that's just how it is.
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
tenningosui Swallowing pills and them feeling like they are stuck and you're gonna die! The Ray Peat Forum Lounge 7
LA Majesty Twelve -The Reason Bill Cooper had to Die! Political Talk, Alternative World Theories 11
S OO Has Me Wired, Estrogenic? Die Off? Ask For Help or Advice 4
Y 3 Children In NY Die From Illness Might Be Linked To COVID? WTF? Ask For Help or Advice 6
Y Why Did A Healthy 16 Year Old Die From Covid Ask For Help or Advice 109
burtlancast Coronavirus: How Come Germans Have 40 Times Less Chances To Die Than Italians ? Miscellaneous Health Discussions 165
J So Many Good Die Young, Kobe Bryant, At 41, RIP Kobe Rant or Rave 62
J Endotoxin Die-off? Digestion 22
haidut Millennials Will Likely Die Earlier Than Gen X Due To Poor(er) Health Scientific Studies 77
ScurveDream Theory: Older People More Likely To Die Because Of Serotonin/estrogen/hormonal Issues? Metabolism 4
haidut New Science Blooms After Star Researchers Die Scientific Studies 2
Amazoniac Die Not-So-Sterile Inflammation Cancer, Degenerative Diseases 3
Mito When You Die ‘you KNOW You’re Dead Because Your Brain Keeps Working’ The Ray Peat Forum Lounge 19
Y During Weight Gain, Fat Cells Are Created But Never Die? Ask For Help or Advice 0
J Birth Control Caused Me To Go Crazy. I Feel I'm Going To Die Of Heart Attack Mental Issues 20
T Erythrose, A Sugar Similar To Glucose, Which Makes Cancer Cells Respire And Therefore Die, Studies Cancer 13
cyclops Fat Cells Never Die! Metabolism 32
R So Lonely I Could Die: Social Isolation Greater Public Health Threat Than Obesity Health 0
haidut Cheetahs In Captivity Die Early Due To High PUFA / Low Glycine Diet Scientific Studies 20
raypeatclips Do All The Carrot/mushroom/bamboo Cause Die Off? Carrot Salad, Bamboo Shoots, Mushrooms 5
managing Caprylic Acid Die-Off (Herxheimer) Supplements 10
W Anyone Else Want To "die Young"? Meditation, Mindfullness, Religion, Spirituality 53
K Die off hives from carrot salad!!!? Help Diet 12
P Felt like i was going to die. Ask For Help or Advice 40
S Lithium Makes The Weaker Mithochondria Die Off Articles & Scientific Studies 0
D I Have Started And Stopped Starch Like 50 Times And The End Result Is Always The Same Starches, Fiber, Legumes 209
Hgreen56 Blood Test Result Ask For Help or Advice 0
F Liver & Thyroid Blood Test Result, Suggestions? Blood Work, Labs 25
H How Do You Get Any Result From Anything? Ask For Help or Advice 56
haidut Epilepsy, As A Result Of Brain Injury (TBI), Is Caused By Endotoxin Receptor (TLR4) Scientific Studies 3
Such_Umami Can Stress Result In Tight Muscles/inflexibility And Postural Problems? Ask For Help or Advice 8
ScurveDream The "sum Life Prediction Problem" -- Measure Life Not As Regeneration/degeneration But As A Result Health 1
berk Why Is Consuming Lot Of Milk Result To Fat Gain By Lot Of People? Dairy, Eggs 102
GorillaHead Does Chronic Mast Cell Stabilizers Result In A Rebound Effect? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 1
ScurveDream Is The Whole "drunken Experience" A Result Of Serotonin And Estrogen Increase? Ask For Help or Advice 2
D Newbie To Smartphone - Sick As A Result Radiation 2
A VLDL - Is It A Result Of Refined Carbs? Cholesterol 0
jzeno Luke Perry, Of '90210' Fame, Dead At Age 52--Died Of Result Of Massive Stroke Breaking News 2
Lokzo Fasting Insulin Levels - Comment Your Result Labs 30
cinderella Your Hair Loss Might Be The Result Of Being In Contact With Certain Metals/jewelleries Scientific Studies 0
haidut Babies Experience Life As An LSD Trip, As A Result Of Their High Metabolism Scientific Studies 100
haidut Genes Do Not Matter (again) - Individuality Is An Inevitable And Unpredictable Result Of Development Scientific Studies 77
B An Abnormal Result For A Bowel Cancer Screening Test! Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 3
M TSH, FT3 And FT4 Result Female Issues 5
P Is Insulin Resistance A Result Of Impaired Beta Oxidation Or Excessive Beta Oxidation? Scientific Studies 24
E Low Alkaline Phosphatase Result? Blood Work, Labs 32
N Low Omega 3 Blood Test Result- A Good Thing? Ask For Help or Advice 4
E Cholesterol Gone Through The Roof,is This Result All Bad ? Cholesterol 13
whereismyOJ Another Blood Work Result Blood Work, Labs 13
Westside PUFAs 92% Of Prenatal Down Syndrome Diagnoses Result In Abortion Miscellaneous Health Discussions 22

Similar threads

Top