Kratom vs kava: the best one for feeling amazing!

[Peachy]

I appreciate the warning of the addictive properties of Kratom. I have lost major respect for health unfluencers that have been pushing the Feel Free kratom/kava product, and ignoring the dangers to their audience/customers(asprey, ben greenfield). I can forgive them for having different health views than me, but their marketing has been unethical and dangerous. Especially these folks with such a large reach, could be causing lots of downstream suffering.

I'm sober now (except for kava and tobacco), but have a long history of drug use, including hard drugs. The only drug I have experienced complete addiction to has been Kratom. I have quite kratom twice, and the experience was similar to how folks describe other opiate withdrawal symptoms. I had one week of skin crawling, night sweats, insomnia, exhaustion / depression, followed by 2-3 months of Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS). Kratom is no joke, and it can be a very slippery slope. It can seem so harmless, and its frequency can easily sneak up on you. Kratom is not like other addictive drugs where use gets regulated because you can't live a normal life with them. With kratom you can do your work, family, et cetera, but it slowly starts making folks miserable. Its hard to checkout for a couple months to deal with the withdrawal so quitting gets delayed.

My feelings are if folks feel like they can safely use it, I think it's irresponsible to introduce it to family and friends. Many people become addicts and the addiction massively hurts their quality of life. The positive results decline to a short period of euphoria, followed by a reduction in baseline mental health and energy, and constant needing to redose to not feel even worse. If folks aren't convinced by my personal experience check the /quittingkratom subreddit.

Kava on the other hand is a gift from the gods. It feels blasphemous to me to betray it by combing it with kratom like in the product Feel Free. In many ways I find kava anti-addictive. When using it frequently I feel turned off more by things that are not in alignment with my path and can cause me harm. I can use kava all day every day for months and have zero withdrawal symptoms.

I do sometimes get in periods where I get negative effects from kava, such as anxiety and sadness when using it. I have suspected that perhaps it increases serotonin. After dosing it often encourages a bowel movement, I wonder if that is also an effect of serotonin? I don't know.

Despite that, kava does seem to be one of those very few recreational drugs that has very little downside, in particular, no addiction and no hangover, which is why I consider it a healthy part of my "sobriety".

This is very helpful. Thank you. Someone close to me is abusing Kratom (as well as alcohol and weed). He was an opioid addict 15+ years ago. I think this is the first time he’s taken anything opioid-like since then.

He is talking about sobriety but there is something off mentally, like he’s delusional - which can be a side effect from Kratom (or addiction in general, but this seems extra). Very defensive and controlling too. He recently lost a desirable, high-paying job and his long-term girlfriend.

By delusional, I don’t mean he’s hallucinating or imagining things but he’s somewhat out of touch with reality, no personal accountability, ungrounded.

What kind of micronized Kalm with Kava do you like? I’m seeing a couple of varieties - borongoru and pouni.

Do you have any other insights into weaning off? There is at least some kindling of desire to change and your story is giving me hope.

 

[TheSir]

How is your article on thyrogenic benefits of meth coming along?

 

[Frankdee20]

Kava won’t cause withdrawal

What else

 

[worrywart]

I appreciate the warning of the addictive properties of Kratom. I have lost major respect for health unfluencers that have been pushing the Feel Free kratom/kava product, and ignoring the dangers to their audience/customers(asprey, ben greenfield). I can forgive them for having different health views than me, but their marketing has been unethical and dangerous. Especially these folks with such a large reach, could be causing lots of downstream suffering.

I'm sober now (except for kava and tobacco), but have a long history of drug use, including hard drugs. The only drug I have experienced complete addiction to has been Kratom. I have quite kratom twice, and the experience was similar to how folks describe other opiate withdrawal symptoms. I had one week of skin crawling, night sweats, insomnia, exhaustion / depression, followed by 2-3 months of Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS). Kratom is no joke, and it can be a very slippery slope. It can seem so harmless, and its frequency can easily sneak up on you. Kratom is not like other addictive drugs where use gets regulated because you can't live a normal life with them. With kratom you can do your work, family, et cetera, but it slowly starts making folks miserable. Its hard to checkout for a couple months to deal with the withdrawal so quitting gets delayed.

My feelings are if folks feel like they can safely use it, I think it's irresponsible to introduce it to family and friends. Many people become addicts and the addiction massively hurts their quality of life. The positive results decline to a short period of euphoria, followed by a reduction in baseline mental health and energy, and constant needing to redose to not feel even worse. If folks aren't convinced by my personal experience check the /quittingkratom subreddit.

Kava on the other hand is a gift from the gods. It feels blasphemous to me to betray it by combing it with kratom like in the product Feel Free. In many ways I find kava anti-addictive. When using it frequently I feel turned off more by things that are not in alignment with my path and can cause me harm. I can use kava all day every day for months and have zero withdrawal symptoms.

I do sometimes get in periods where I get negative effects from kava, such as anxiety and sadness when using it. I have suspected that perhaps it increases serotonin. After dosing it often encourages a bowel movement, I wonder if that is also an effect of serotonin? I don't know.

Despite that, kava does seem to be one of those very few recreational drugs that has very little downside, in particular, no addiction and no hangover, which is why I consider it a healthy part of my "sobriety".

My experience with kratom is exactly like you describe. Feels great for a while, then unshakable fatigue, digestion problems, sleep problems, cold sweat anxiety etc. begin to appear, and at this point I was hooked. It can really ruin your life. Cold turkey withdrawals at 15 g/day were a nightmare. I'm down to 2 g a day and intend to kick the habit soon.

 

[PopSocket]

Drugs are bad mmkay ? The only drug out there that is useful is LSD. Non-toxic and you can reflect and see things for what they really are - especially yourself, which is why many people get bad trips as they just don't wanna see what life has shaped them into. No wonder it puts an end to addictions and negative behaviors like very few things can. I can recommend to anyone hooked on kratom or any other toxic habit forming substance.

Never tried kratom as I heard it causes constipation and constipation = early death. Is this true in your experience guys ?

 

[DonLore]

Drugs are bad mmkay ? The only drug out there that is useful is LSD. Non-toxic and you can reflect and see things for what they really are - especially yourself, which is why many people get bad trips as they just don't wanna see what life has shaped them into. No wonder it puts an end to addictions and negative behaviors like very few things can. I can recommend to anyone hooked on kratom or any other toxic habit forming substance.

Never tried kratom as I heard it causes constipation and constipation = early death. Is this true in your experience guys ?

Hasnt been a problem. Also, there are other good drugs like kava, mushrooms, DMT, ketamine, coffee, etc