Kratom vs kava: the best one for feeling amazing!

[Hans]

Kratom vs kava: the best one for feeling amazing! » MENELITE

Kratom and kava are two natural herbs tranditionally used to increase energy and well-being. But which one is the best and the safest? Let’s find out. What Kratom and kava are Kratom Kratom (Mitragyna speciosa) is a tropical evergreen tree native to Southeast Asia, that is part of the coffee...

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I've had a good experience with Kratom so far. I think it's safe if used in small doses and in moderation. So before anyone says how dangerous it is and how it can lower your testosterone and prolactin, read this article first. Also, my moto should be "don't be a dumbass". Meaning, don't abuse it. Because then it will likely cause issues.

Which one do you like the most?

 

[Nfinkelstein]

I read the article. I like that you mention the potential for addiction and withdrawal issues, but I think you minimize them. There are at least a dozen better, safer, and less potentially harmful ways to achieve the outcomes you describe from kratom (energy, anti-anxiety, etc), all of which are better researched and vetted, by the many people on this forum. It would be better to put kratom into the "be cautious, maybe self-experiment" category before promoting it, imo.

 

[Hans]

I read the article. I like that you mention the potential for addiction and withdrawal issues, but I think you minimize them. There are at least a dozen better, safer, and less potentially harmful ways to achieve the outcomes you describe from kratom (energy, anti-anxiety, etc), all of which are better researched and vetted, by the many people on this forum. It would be better to put kratom into the "be cautious, maybe self-experiment" category before promoting it, imo.

I view taking Kratom the same as taking caffeine. Kratom is a safe substance to use (just like caffeine and many other herbs and substances) when used with discretion.
Low dose can be helpful, but you're likely to run into issues at higher doses.

The specific benefits of Kratom that I like are mild pain-killing, putting me in more of a flow, dis-inhibiting me and helping with ejaculation control. Those I feel are relatively unique to Kratom in my personal experience.

Have you ever used Kratom?

 

[CoconutEffect]

I have found that the only downside seems to be dependency and tolerance. Withdrawal for me, however, is NO where near as bad as coffee / caffeine. So I agree with the comparison to coffee, I believe they are in the same family. And while I can't recommend it per se, I agree that it is a "coffee-like" useful tool, but reliable information about Kratom is hard to find. And "legitimate" people seem loathe to talk about it in any serious way, probably because of all the bad press, funded most probably by interests that have competing products to sell. It wouldn't suprise me much if it had some systemic health benefits over the long term, despite the habit formation.

 

[DonLore]

I read the article. I like that you mention the potential for addiction and withdrawal issues, but I think you minimize them. There are at least a dozen better, safer, and less potentially harmful ways to achieve the outcomes you describe from kratom (energy, anti-anxiety, etc), all of which are better researched and vetted, by the many people on this forum. It would be better to put kratom into the "be cautious, maybe self-experiment" category before promoting it, imo.

What is less harmful way to lower anxiety, pain or fatigue as well as kratom does? In long term, it is of course necessary to eat healthy etc. But there are plenty of situations where people actually need something that works and works immediately. I doubt there are safer ways to get such pain relief or anxiety relief. Benzos? Nope. Alcohol. No. Aspirin? Does not even compare to kratom. Kratom and kava are very effective for certain situations and I just dont believe anything comes close to it (in a safe way, meaning no more addiction potential)

 

[Hans]

I have found that the only downside seems to be dependency and tolerance. Withdrawal for me, however, is NO where near as bad as coffee / caffeine. So I agree with the comparison to coffee, I believe they are in the same family. And while I can't recommend it per se, I agree that it is a "coffee-like" useful tool, but reliable information about Kratom is hard to find. And "legitimate" people seem loathe to talk about it in any serious way, probably because of all the bad press, funded most probably by interests that have competing products to sell. It wouldn't suprise me much if it had some systemic health benefits over the long term, despite the habit formation.

Agreed, and that's why I never set myself in a position to get used to it. I'd use it 2-3 times a week max, but most of the time I'd use it like once a week.

 

[John mcclain]

Kratom and you wont pin testosterone

 

[Apple]

I read that kava boosts stomach to produce juices (acid) like nothing else...Has anyone experimented in this regard ?

 

[Hans]

Kratom and you wont pin testosterone

Haha you're persistent with this pinning testosterone thing. It looks like it bothers you more than it bothers me.

 

[John mcclain]

Haha you're persistent with this pinning testosterone thing. It looks like it bothers you more than it bothers me.

I trying to help you....I not sure how many threads you have started about testosterone HGH and other hormones in the body you are hell bend on increasing them but wont actually pin them...FWIW I've tried most of the garbage supplements out there I wont say all but ALOT...D aspartic acid put me almost outside the reference of testosterone when I was smack in middle and felt no difference...optimizing thyroid put 10% above and I felt exactly the same....now when I added testosterone and ONLY then was there a difference but if wanna keep wasting your time looking average and swallowing god knows what snake oil go ahead dude

 

[joaquin]

But even caffeine robs thiamine and that can't just be automatically restored by popping a thiamine plLL.

 

[John mcclain]

But even caffeine robs thiamine and that can't just be automatically restored by popping a thiamine plLL.

True and its alien to the human body thus unnatural

 

[Hans]

I trying to help you....I not sure how many threads you have started about testosterone HGH and other hormones in the body you are hell bend on increasing them but wont actually pin them...FWIW I've tried most of the garbage supplements out there I wont say all but ALOT...D aspartic acid put me almost outside the reference of testosterone when I was smack in middle and felt no difference...optimizing thyroid put 10% above and I felt exactly the same....now when I added testosterone and ONLY then was there a difference but if wanna keep wasting your time looking average and swallowing god knows what snake oil go ahead dude

I'm very happy with how I feel and don't want to be a bodybuilder so I see no need in taking exogenous T. For me, I take herbs to enhance recovery and sexual function mostly and they do their job very well. In truth, I use very little supplements as my diet and lifestyle cover all of it for me (the same goes for my clients).

 

[DonLore]

I'm very happy with how I feel and don't want to be a bodybuilder so I see no need in taking exogenous T. For me, I take herbs to enhance recovery and sexual function mostly and they do their job very well. In truth, I use very little supplements as my diet and lifestyle cover all of it for me (the same goes for my clients).

Better not to bother with that guy, it is stupid to tell others that they should start doing steroids. If someone wants to, go ahead, but what does it matter to this mclain whether you use or not. It has many risks, side effects, it costs money, and while I believe it would probably make a person much more energetic and confident, most people are still better off just optimizing things naturally.
@John mcclain , why dont you start shooting heroin? You talk about feeling good, so why not just do heroin instead of using snake oil hormones. Thats how much sense you make friend

 

[Frankdee20]

Alcohol for the win, but dance with the devil only if you know his steps

 

[Buckminster]

I appreciate the warning of the addictive properties of Kratom. I have lost major respect for health unfluencers that have been pushing the Feel Free kratom/kava product, and ignoring the dangers to their audience/customers(asprey, ben greenfield). I can forgive them for having different health views than me, but their marketing has been unethical and dangerous. Especially these folks with such a large reach, could be causing lots of downstream suffering.

I'm sober now (except for kava and tobacco), but have a long history of drug use, including hard drugs. The only drug I have experienced complete addiction to has been Kratom. I have quite kratom twice, and the experience was similar to how folks describe other opiate withdrawal symptoms. I had one week of skin crawling, night sweats, insomnia, exhaustion / depression, followed by 2-3 months of Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS). Kratom is no joke, and it can be a very slippery slope. It can seem so harmless, and its frequency can easily sneak up on you. Kratom is not like other addictive drugs where use gets regulated because you can't live a normal life with them. With kratom you can do your work, family, et cetera, but it slowly starts making folks miserable. Its hard to checkout for a couple months to deal with the withdrawal so quitting gets delayed.

My feelings are if folks feel like they can safely use it, I think it's irresponsible to introduce it to family and friends. Many people become addicts and the addiction massively hurts their quality of life. The positive results decline to a short period of euphoria, followed by a reduction in baseline mental health and energy, and constant needing to redose to not feel even worse. If folks aren't convinced by my personal experience check the /quittingkratom subreddit.

Kava on the other hand is a gift from the gods. It feels blasphemous to me to betray it by combing it with kratom like in the product Feel Free. In many ways I find kava anti-addictive. When using it frequently I feel turned off more by things that are not in alignment with my path and can cause me harm. I can use kava all day every day for months and have zero withdrawal symptoms.

I do sometimes get in periods where I get negative effects from kava, such as anxiety and sadness when using it. I have suspected that perhaps it increases serotonin. After dosing it often encourages a bowel movement, I wonder if that is also an effect of serotonin? I don't know.

Despite that, kava does seem to be one of those very few recreational drugs that has very little downside, in particular, no addiction and no hangover, which is why I consider it a healthy part of my "sobriety".

 

[John mcclain]

Blind leading the blind

 

[Hans]

I appreciate the warning of the addictive properties of Kratom. I have lost major respect for health unfluencers that have been pushing the Feel Free kratom/kava product, and ignoring the dangers to their audience/customers(asprey, ben greenfield). I can forgive them for having different health views than me, but their marketing has been unethical and dangerous. Especially these folks with such a large reach, could be causing lots of downstream suffering.

I'm sober now (except for kava and tobacco), but have a long history of drug use, including hard drugs. The only drug I have experienced complete addiction to has been Kratom. I have quite kratom twice, and the experience was similar to how folks describe other opiate withdrawal symptoms. I had one week of skin crawling, night sweats, insomnia, exhaustion / depression, followed by 2-3 months of Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS). Kratom is no joke, and it can be a very slippery slope. It can seem so harmless, and its frequency can easily sneak up on you. Kratom is not like other addictive drugs where use gets regulated because you can't live a normal life with them. With kratom you can do your work, family, et cetera, but it slowly starts making folks miserable. Its hard to checkout for a couple months to deal with the withdrawal so quitting gets delayed.

My feelings are if folks feel like they can safely use it, I think it's irresponsible to introduce it to family and friends. Many people become addicts and the addiction massively hurts their quality of life. The positive results decline to a short period of euphoria, followed by a reduction in baseline mental health and energy, and constant needing to redose to not feel even worse. If folks aren't convinced by my personal experience check the /quittingkratom subreddit.

Kava on the other hand is a gift from the gods. It feels blasphemous to me to betray it by combing it with kratom like in the product Feel Free. In many ways I find kava anti-addictive. When using it frequently I feel turned off more by things that are not in alignment with my path and can cause me harm. I can use kava all day every day for months and have zero withdrawal symptoms.

I do sometimes get in periods where I get negative effects from kava, such as anxiety and sadness when using it. I have suspected that perhaps it increases serotonin. After dosing it often encourages a bowel movement, I wonder if that is also an effect of serotonin? I don't know.

Despite that, kava does seem to be one of those very few recreational drugs that has very little downside, in particular, no addiction and no hangover, which is why I consider it a healthy part of my "sobriety".

What brand of kava do you use and which specific benefits do you get from it?

 

[Buckminster]

What brand of kava do you use and which specific benefits do you get from it?

I use Kalm With Kava. I like their micronized kava product. Micronized kava takes out the part of the root that leads to nausea, so you can safely take it without straining. It makes the process of making a glass very fast, (no kneading), place powder in glass, shake for a moment, enjoy. Micronized hits faster, lasts a bit shorter, but per dose can end up being more affordable than whole cut root. If I had endless funds, I'd be checking out Gourmet Hawaian Kava, its just quite a bit more expensive. They are one of the only other companies with a true micronized product.

 

[Buckminster]

What brand of kava do you use and which specific benefits do you get from it?

As far as benefits:

Improvement in mood, energy, and motivation to do my work. If I'm in a bad mood, or craving drugs, it can shift me out of my state, which I really value. There is an altered state, but the mind is clear. It is great for manual labor, studying, or relaxing with friends. For some it can reduce social anxiety and provide social lubricant similar to alcohol, but without the loss of judgment and maintaining a clear head + no hangover.

As mentioned before, I find kava turns me off to things that are not in alignment with my path, it guides me towards more wholesome living. It makes me not want to drink, do tobacco less, not argue with people online, and listen to more uplifting higher vibe music. It makes me less interested in politics (could this be harm avoidance from serotonin?). Instead of wanting to listen to a podcast that may get my stress hormones up and discuss economic doom or the rise of fascism, I'm more interested in listening to something spiritual or about health.