Is Nobody Gonna Point Out The Elephant In The Room? Georgi Dinki Knows It All But He’s Still Fat?

[rei]

Expecting scarcity is expecting stress, which is a stressor already in itself. A healthy body does not pack fat in preparation for hardship. A healthy person has no need for fat storage, because the optimally efficient metabolism of a healthy person does not need much food to begin with. Only a sick person needs a lot of food! Thus only a sick person will easily put on weight -- the healthy person will simply increase their metabolic rate. Furthermore, a fat person will not be able to elevate their CO2 tolerance beyond a certain point until they reach normal body weight. The conclusion is that carrying excess fat offers no health benefits and is innately stressful.

You are confusing overweight with having a healthy amount of subcutaneous fat. The ripped gym bro that many regard as optimal is someone in severe stress that works hard to maintain muscle. If you have good general health with proper SC fat you maintain large and strong muscles doing very little. Posture is of great importance to achieve this, and hard gym exercise is a good way to harm posture if you are not conscious of doing it correctly.

 

[ursidae]

So Danny Roddy and Ray Peat are doing it wrong then? I don’t see them with excess fat storage

danny roddy is taking thyroid

 

[TheSir]

You are confusing overweight with having a healthy amount of subcutaneous fat. The ripped gym bro that many regard as optimal is someone in severe stress that works hard to maintain muscle. If you have good general health with proper SC fat you maintain large and strong muscles doing very little. Posture is of great importance to achieve this, and hard gym exercise is a good way to harm posture if you are not conscious of doing it correctly.

By 'adequately fat' you do not mean overweight? In the context of modern people, it would make more sense to call sub 25 BMI 'adequately lean', ha.

Why would a healthy body not store energy for future use? That's insanely irresponsible. Fat storage is a healthy mechanism in the face of a massive caloric intake (the alternative is probably some kind of wasting disease), it feels like a lot of people on this forum assume that a healthy metabolism makes you immune to becoming fat because of the connotations obesity has with poor health, but i think that's just wishful thinking.

No no, the question is: why would a healthy body store energy as fat? A healthy body does not expect scarcity! To the contrary: the healthy organism is working on the premise that the present health-conducive circumstances will be present ad infinitum. See, the body simply responds to stimuli, it doesn't have the ability to predict when the going will get hard like the mind does (this would be the 'wishful thinking'). That's conflating your mindly intelligence with your bodily intelligence. Consider that the bear does not store fat for the winter when it's the summer -- for the bear, fat accumulation is set off when the weather becomes stressful!

Moreover, with a healthy metabolism you would simply not be driven to consume calories in an amount that would make you fat. Fattening up would be hard work to such person. Thus anytime you find yourself gaining fat easily, you can be sure that you're subclinically sick.

 

[Quelsatron]

By 'adequately fat' you do not mean overweight? In the context of modern people, it would make more sense to call sub 25 BMI 'adequately lean', ha.


No no, the question is: why would a healthy body store energy as fat? A healthy body does not expect scarcity! To the contrary: the healthy organism is working on the premise that the present health-conducive circumstances will be present ad infinitum. See, the body simply responds to stimuli, it doesn't have the ability to predict when the going will get hard like the mind does (this would be the 'wishful thinking'). That's conflating your mindly intelligence with your bodily intelligence. Consider that the bear does not store fat for the winter when it's the summer -- for the bear, fat accumulation is set off when the weather becomes stressful!

Moreover, with a healthy metabolism you would simply not be driven to consume calories in an amount that would make you fat. Fattening up would be hard work to such person. Thus anytime you find yourself gaining fat easily, you can be sure that you're subclinically sick.

Why it would store energy as fat? It's idiotic to not expect scarcity, it's a fundamental constant of nature, just because you have been living in paradise for 5 seasons doesn't mean that the next 5 will be the same. It's simply responsible to get fat in the face of excess calories. Spend energy on repair, upkeep, growth and social status, but if you've maxed those out by 99% and you still have hundreds of calories over, throw it on the fat pile rather than piss it away like a rapper who just got his first million dollar pay check. Animals living in nature are also adapted to the ecosystem, maybe if evolution has taught it that the daily allowance for prey is roughly 1000 kcal and it will be such throughout all of the year, it can justify pushing spending close to the limit for useful functions, but we humans have left the ecosystems behind us, I can go to the store and buy 61 thousand calories worth of potatoes for one days work, after taxes, on a shitty salary, if the potatoes aren't on sale that day. Good metabolism or not, nothing can stand up to that level of caloric onslaught. And of course hunger is a factor, but love of food veers into the psychological, and reducing it to if your metabolism is good or not is a bit dogmatic.

and again, if you didn't notice, peat believes calories are fattening (quoting him again because it's an easy win in these parts and my serotonin levels are too high from the starch filled meal I just ate, so I crave the thrill of victory)

 

[TheSir]

Why it would store energy as fat? It's idiotic to not expect scarcity

Whether or not you think it's idiotic is not relevant. There is simply no way to make your body expect anything without the prerequisite stimulation. The nature only reacts, it never acts.

Spend energy on repair, upkeep, growth and social status, but if you've maxed those out by 99% and you still have hundreds of calories over, throw it on the fat pile

There's always more growth and repair to attend to. You're never going to be a finished product (otherwise you could say good bye to aging itself). As such, true surplus does not exist. When the body stores fat, it does so because its natural means of energy production are nearing failure, be the cause internal (physiological dysfunction) or external (scarcity). In the case of the former it would additionally mean that the body is incapable of properly converting food into energy, hence it is stored as fat instead until energy metabolism is restored.

Good metabolism or not, nothing can stand up to that level of caloric onslaught. And of course hunger is a factor, but love of food veers into the psychological, and reducing it to if your metabolism is good or not is a bit dogmatic.

Love of food beyond satiation is already a sign of pre-existing stress and sickness, be it psychological or physiological. Animals don't eat beyond satiation in the nature, neither would you if you lived in your natural state.

peat believes calories are fattening

That's not quite true.

 

[ursidae]

TheSir I enjoy that you countering people’s arguments, but what about the argument that he sacrifices some of his health to be so productive (all that research means sedentary indoors living, managing business is stressful) and the stress of that/its toll on looks is inescapable?

 

[BrianF]

When is the metabolism gonna rev up?


Or does he not practice what he preaches?



or maybe milk is making you fat when everyone has always known that dairy makes people gain weight. Especially when you’re combining it with a diet high in refined sugar

Did Dinkov reject your advances?

 

[TheSir]

TheSir I enjoy that you countering people’s arguments, but what about the argument that he sacrifices some of his health to be so productive (all that research means sedentary indoors living, managing business is stressful) and the stress of that/its toll on looks is inescapable?

Haidut? Sacrificing one's health for productivity is understandable. If one's productivity involves helping others, such sacrifice may even be noble in some superficial sense of the word (given that a word with as much weight as 'noble' can be used superficially to begin with). Consider that the central principle in Peat's framework is to maximize one's bioenergetic potential. Achieving such feat would mean working within the limits of one's body, i.e. avoiding abusing it, as any abuse would lower one's ability to maintain strong bioenergetic health in the long term. Certainly, in a wider sense, it could be said that the healthier one is, the more productive they will be able to be. So is sacrificing your health for temporarily increased productivity a good idea, especially if better health would gift one with permanently increased productivity? Regardless of the answer, at the very least this kind of sacrifice isn't in accordance with Peat's core principles.

A question must then be asked: if you are interested in being a torchbearer for a cause (which to me seems is the case with Haidut & peatarianism), why would you not transform yourself into the most powerful living embodiment of the principles you're trying to advocate for? Why would you represent principles you're only halfassedly following yourself? Is anyone going to think that a fat bald man must hold the secrets to robust health? No! And for a good reason! You'd be wondering that if this person knows the secrets to health, then why doesn't he look particularly healthy himself?

Someone who truly believes in their cause would live it true in every moment of their life. Konstantin Buteyko had good sense when he allowed only those students of his who had reached the physiologically optimal level of breathing (<1% of population) to teach the method to others. It showed that in addition to their intellectual competence, the student was sufficiently dedicated to the method to serve as a capable prophet for the method. Peat can't really do the same, since his modus operandi is to just throw his knowledge out there, so it'd be great if his apostles had the self-control to either hold themselves to a higher standard or to refrain from elevating themselves to the spotlight in the first place out of consideration for Peat.

Haidut's condition would be more forgivable if they were his own ideas he was representing -- the impact would be limited to his personal brand. But he is representing the ideas of someone else! His appearance is as disrespectful as it is inconvenient to the whole legacy of Peat. Lastly, in case I'm mistaken and Haidut is not as much of a torchbearer as I've been led to believe, then I will readily retract everything I wrote.

 

[LA]

I don’t know why this thread was created. We, as insecure humans, look for gurus which is extremely dangerous. Take what you want from Peat and @haidut and leave the rest. They aren’t gods, simply humans with their own set of presuppositions and ideas. When I first found Peat I was a Peat-ite, now not so much. I think he changed my perceptions of what defines health (and I’m thankful) but have given up on the strictly scientific or intellictual approach to ALL things in life. Maybe because I believe in God moreso then before... JMO.

Don’t attack Georgi, just don’t listen to him if you disagree... [YES I agree!!!]

actually I dont believe he has enough time to eat correctly he has a wife and kid or kids and probably there is no place for him to eat. People get overweight when they cannot get enough protein, which is difficult for those who have a full time job. When I was working I lived on 100% beef hamburgers. I would order them well cooked (in case of germs in the meat) told them no condiments, dressing or salad stuff, used the buns as a handle ate the meat,followed it with orange juice and went back to work. Perhaps the area where he works doesnt have any place that sells 100 percent beef (so no added soy) hamburgers to go.

 

[PolishSun]

Babies are fat.

 

[rei]

By 'adequately fat' you do not mean overweight? In the context of modern people, it would make more sense to call sub 25 BMI 'adequately lean', ha.

Mainly it was a comment against the ripped athlete/bodybuilder type. This is the class that become severely overweight/obese if they stop their training regime because they exist in a ripped low fat state that is extremely stressful. Have you ever seen such a person excel in a strong man competition? No, there all competitors have a healthy amount of fat, some more than optimal. Only when delusional judges rate your appearances can a ripped lean body be desirable.

 

[TripleOG]

LOL, are you kidding? Nobody expects him to be gigachad but you must be blind to not see the difference between a puffy face and a muscular/attractive one. Now tell me which one looks healthier/androgenic overall.

there's a clear androgenic difference from when he first start showing his face during streams.

Comparing to some random, juiced, likely-photoshopped face means nothing.

 

[TheSir]

Mainly it was a comment against the ripped athlete/bodybuilder type. This is the class that become severely overweight/obese if they stop their training regime because they exist in a ripped low fat state that is extremely stressful. Have you ever seen such a person excel in a strong man competition? No, there all competitors have a healthy amount of fat, some more than optimal. Only when delusional judges rate your appearances can a ripped lean body be desirable.

Being 'ripped' is definitely stressful. However, one does not need to stray that far from "rippedness" in order to reach a healthy weight. There would be little reason to shoot for higher than 12-15% bodyfat as a male, which is still considerably lean. Would you shoot for a higher percentage?

In case of strongmen a crucial factor to consider is the advantage of increased postural stability/leverage which comes as a consequence of heavier bodyweight. When dealing with such massively heavy objects, a stable anatomical foundation is of utmost importance. In terms of health, I would say that all of them have way more than the optimal amount of fat in their bodies. It's not like powerlifters are known to live long and healthy lives anymore so than bodybuilders.

 

[rei]

Being 'ripped' is definitely stressful. However, one does not need to stray that far from "rippedness" in order to reach a healthy weight. There would be little reason to shoot for higher than 12-15% bodyfat as a male, which is still considerably lean. Would you shoot for a higher percentage?

In case of strongmen a crucial factor to consider is the advantage of increased postural stability/leverage which comes as a consequence of heavier bodyweight. When dealing with such massively heavy objects, a stable anatomical foundation is of utmost importance. In terms of health, I would say that all of them have way more than the optimal amount of fat in their bodies. It's not like powerlifters are known to live long and healthy lives anymore so than bodybuilders.

power lifter is not a strongman. You can bench press heavy weights without fat, but it seems you cannot be functionally strong.

 

[Kvothe]

People get overweight when they cannot get enough protein

Actually, it's the opposite.

 

[Quelsatron]

power lifter is not a strongman. You can bench press heavy weights without fat, but it seems you cannot be functionally strong.

In the online gym communities, it seems the general idea is that muscle gain (in an experienced lifter) is caused by caloric excess, and caloric excess also brings along fat, and fat loss is by caloric deficit, which also brings along muscle loss. I think it's a solid principle, even if it not strictly true in a biological sense

 

[Nebula]

Actually, it's the opposite.

Depends. I’m starting to think fat gain is often when the body can’t buffer it’s acidity both from protein and lactic acidosis. Maybe that’s one reason why eating more animal protein than you can buffer can be anti metabolic. That might explain the benefits I’m getting from consuming lemon juice + baking soda.

 

[Astolfo]

It's more than "healthy amount" of fats. I don't see any evolutionary advantage at storing extra energy while sacrificing attractiveness. A healthy/well fed organism that's eligible for reproduction should have the typical gender-specific features that makes it attractive. And being fat is absolutely not one of them.

 

[LA]

Actually, it's the opposite.

Perhaps low protein works for you. According to Jack La Lanne, Adele Davis, Lelord Kordel and many others including many of my teachers taught the same things about protein, body healthy, strength, thick hair, etc. Best regards in your journey

 

[Kvothe]

Perhaps low protein works for you. According to Jack La Lanne, Adele Davis, Lelord Kordel and many others including many of my teachers taught the same things about protein, body healthy, strength, thick hair, etc. Best regards in your journey

I wasn't referring to my personal experience. There is enough clear evidence showing that high protein diets slow the metabolic rate and decrease energy consumption, insulin sensitivity, etc. Animals, including humans, seem to function best when the relative intake of protein is low. A high proportion of carbohydrates and healthy fats to protein seems optimal to me to maintain adequate lean tissue mass while getting a maximum of biological energy.