From Chris Masterjohn: Testing Nutritional Status - Vit A

[Marcine]

It always blows my mind how Chris Masterjohn can get so much so wrong. He is not a good source of information. He does not even realize the basics of testing for vitamin A toxicity and that the blood tests are worthless when looking through the eye he is peering through. If you cannot even understand that basic premise then you are definitely not a person that should be trusted for a source on this subject.

Hi Charlie, I've been on the Forum for several years now, although I rarely follow along much. Lately I've gotten wind that you are inappropriate to running this forum because you are now anti-Peat. How do you reconcile this and continue here when it seems that you should be moving along to a forum focused on something that you believe in? Are you only running this show to derail something that began in good standing to support Dr Peat's concepts? It just seems dishonest to call this the raypeatforum when you are no longer in support of his ideas, or is it just the vitamin A story that you disagree with? I hope you can help me to understand and I appreciate your time.

 

[charlie]

Hi Charlie, I've been on the Forum for several years now, although I rarely follow along much. Lately I've gotten wind that you are inappropriate to running this forum because you are now anti-Peat. How do you reconcile this and continue here when it seems that you should be moving along to a forum focused on something that you believe in? Are you only running this show to derail something that began in good standing to support Dr Peat's concepts? It just seems dishonest to call this the raypeatforum when you are no longer in support of his ideas, or is it just the vitamin A story that you disagree with? I hope you can help me to understand and I appreciate your time.

Just because I said Ray Peat's diet suggestions wreck many peoples health does not mean I am "anti-Peat". A lot of his work still stands and is great work that I use every single day. He simply missed some nuances when it comes to his dietary suggestions and we have now identified what those are and we are applying the fix. We are literally carrying his work forward and making it better, he would have been proud of this. He did not want to be associated with a cult who does not question or hangs onto every word he says.

Here is a great post my @mosaic01 that shines some light onto the recent moves being made: Low Toxin Lifestyle - This "Low Toxin & Low Vitamin A" Movement Is All About The Great Awakening

 

[Elie]

Are you under the impression that doctors no longer use symptoms as indicators for diseases anymore?

the various symptoms of excess vit A may be symptoms caused by all kinds of other things as well. That's why a good testing method would be super useful.

 

[Elie]

No I should have been more clear I don't know whether I had fatty liver. My triglycerides never went above the number that indicates that, but got very close! The number is now looking great on the detox diet. LDL is still not great though. I also never had high blood sugar. I think my bile was toxic.

only way to diagnose fatty liver is by imaging (ultrasound is most common). Triglycerides or other markers, incl. liver enzymes, may be high, but are not diagnostic bcs they can mean different things.

The main source of fat deposition in the liver is fat stores form within the body, then external, then (a smaller %) excess fructose

 

[RealNeat]

I told him I was having trouble eating lower fat before he died and he told me that eating saturated fat is fine. But I was slowly unable to eat more and more things. I started using charcoal and I can now tolerate whole grains and beans. Toxic bile!!

If saturated fats are associated with fatty liver, does coconut oil overfeeding cause fatty liver?

You can tolerate grains and beans in general or only with the charcoal? Yes, he is right, saturated fat is the least problematic fat but it can still cause fatty liver and all the uncomfortable things that come with it, like vA issues, but its not nearly as deadly as PUFA induced liver fat and damage.

Coconut oil can still lead to fatty liver, especially in a diet insufficient of choline (needs of which will change according to MTHFR gene snps.) Coconut oil is not 100% MCT so it'll still (potentially) contribute to liver fat. Remember fat always goes through the liver even body fat. Limiting fructose, especially from whole fruit, is so far down the priority list that i dont even consider it worthwhile. The conversion from sugar to fat is of extremely small contribution to adiposity with fructose being slightly higher, still nothing compared to fat.

Paradoxically the saturated fats will protect the liver from other offenders like alcohol that cause more dangerous forms of fatty liver. A fatty liver isnt a fatty liver, the details matter.

Eggs and liver are good sources of choline but high in vA so one can use egg yolk equivalents of other foods to achieve it or betaine, but betaine cannot take the place of choline totally for many people.

 

[InChristAlone]

You can tolerate grains and beans in general or only with the charcoal? Yes, he is right, saturated fat is the least problematic fat but it can still cause fatty liver and all the uncomfortable things that come with it, like vA issues, but its not nearly as deadly as PUFA induced liver fat and damage.

Coconut oil can still lead to fatty liver, especially in a diet insufficient of choline (needs of which will change according to MTHFR gene snps.) Coconut oil is not 100% MCT so it'll still (potentially) contribute to liver fat. Remember fat always goes through the liver even body fat. Limiting fructose, especially from whole fruit, is so far down the priority list that i dont even consider it worthwhile. The conversion from sugar to fat is of extremely small contribution to adiposity with fructose being slightly higher, still nothing compared to fat.

Paradoxically the saturated fats will protect the liver from other offenders like alcohol that cause more dangerous forms of fatty liver. A fatty liver isnt a fatty liver, the details matter.

Eggs and liver are good sources of choline but high in vA so one can use egg yolk equivalents of other foods to achieve it or betaine, but betaine cannot take the place of choline totally for many people.

It's too early to tell if I can tolerate grains and beans off the charcoal I have yet to try going off. My main goal is to see a buttcrack rash I've had for 7 yrs clear up. And to completely heal acid reflux. I've had the most good nights of sleep on this detox diet than I've had since before I wrecked my digestion too.

I wonder how could sat. fat be filling up people's liver with fat if they are healing all kinds of conditions on the keto diet? They all say we were duped, sat. fat is better than sugar. The endless debate is so frustrating. Is it just a matter of getting enough choline? I mean I felt worse and and worse on eggs. Our main source of choline. It got to the point I never wanted to eat eggs again despite everyone saying I needed to. It's so individual. It also depends how the egg is cooked. Soft poached eggs do different things to our chemistry than fried eggs (you can shift yourself anabolic or catabolic depending).

 

[charlie]

My main goal is to see a buttcrack rash I've had for 7 yrs clear up.

I have a theory this is from copper detoxing, which causes a fungal issue. I had the same thing but in my nose, it lasted about 3 years until I saw this post from Tom:

" The majority of sinus infections have a fungal component. In the Netti pot, or with an over-the-counter sinus irrigation unit, add sodium bicarb with either peroxide or iodine. You may not need antibiotics. I have advised this treatment for many patients and it works for those interested in avoiding antibiotics (for which a dominant fungal infection can be worse)."

So I wrote him a PM and asked him for his recipe and got this reply:

In a pulsed irrigation device (they are like dental irrigators for the sinuses), place i/4 tsp of sodium bicarb with one cap of 3% peroxide. For iodine, three drops of lugols in the reservoir. If these are irritating, the dose can be modified. I have learned to slowly draw the solution up into the sinuses to reach the ethmoid and frontal sinus area.

I used peroxide instead of lugols, and I always added a bit of salt.. And I mix it all in about 3.5 cups of water. I am wondering if this would work in your situation and just put it in a spray bottle instead of the nasal irrigation device.

 

[GTW]

I have a theory this is from copper detoxing, which causes a fungal issue. I had the same thing but in my nose, it lasted about 3 years until I saw this post from Tom:

So I wrote him a PM and asked him for his recipe and got this reply:

I used peroxide instead of lugols, and I always added a bit of salt.. And I mix it all in about 3.5 cups of water. I am wondering if this would work in your situation and just put it in a spray bottle instead of the nasal irrigation device.

Endogenous NO in the paranasal sinuses is the minimal and sufficient remedy. You only need to breathe in and out through your nose.

 

[charlie]

Endogenous NO in the paranasal sinuses is the minimal and sufficient remedy. You only need to breathe in and out through your nose.

Thank goodness I am not a mouth breather.

 

[GTW]

150 years ago Catlin wrote a book based on his own experience and observations of Native American culture, Shut Your Mouth And Save Your Life.
50 years later Weston Price confirmed Catlin in his studies of primitive cultures worldwide.

 

[GTW]

BTW, what about Chris Masterjohn? His analysis of factors related to B3 forms, metabolites, benefits and conditional overdose consequences is worth reading.

 

[InChristAlone]

I have a theory this is from copper detoxing, which causes a fungal issue. I had the same thing but in my nose, it lasted about 3 years until I saw this post from Tom:

So I wrote him a PM and asked him for his recipe and got this reply:

I used peroxide instead of lugols, and I always added a bit of salt.. And I mix it all in about 3.5 cups of water. I am wondering if this would work in your situation and just put it in a spray bottle instead of the nasal irrigation device.

The niacin spray is really helping. Best I've ever seen it. I've tried hydrogen peroxide in the past, it made it so raw and inflamed, basically everything I've ever tried did that. It has been inflamed for 7 yrs with periods of bad flare ups. So far right now is the most it's ever looked normal. So I'm so cautious about inflaming it again. But maybe I could try it a little and see if it will inflame it.

 

[charlie]

The niacin spray is really helping. Best I've ever seen it. I've tried hydrogen peroxide in the past, it made it so raw and inflamed, basically everything I've ever tried did that. It has been inflamed for 7 yrs with periods of bad flare ups. So far right now is the most it's ever looked normal. So I'm so cautious about inflaming it again. But maybe I could try it a little and see if it will inflame it.

Well if you on the right path might be no need to change course.

 

[GTW]

When I used H2O2 in the past it was 3% or diluted. Slosh it in your mouth, lips shut, 4-5 minutes. So the O2 gets to sinuses but not direct peroxide contact.

 

[cedric]

Hi , there are many discussions about vitamin A toxicity on RPF, as well as haidut put some interesting infos on this topic.
I'd like to remind that big genomes and increased metabolism, like fever/sauna, measles/RSV/ coronavirus use a lot of vitamin A.
1 year measles children get sth like 100 000 I.U every day
Sun destroys vitmin A.
Malaria can be vitamin A deficiency.
Chemotherapy damages liver , a storage of witamin A.
Chemotherapy and radiotherapy are involved in big genomes work requiring a lot of vit. A.
Autism can be improved by vit.A.
Immunity, cell differentiation, healthy epithelium depends on vitamin A.
Hyaluronate, progesterone synthesis requires vitamin A.
Heme synthesis is vitamin A dependent-low liver catalase is bad prognostic in cancer.
Eye /cornea needs zinc and vit. A- one third of Africa has this deficiency.
Retinol is LPS pathway antagonist.

Vitamin A (retinol) Is Endotoxin (LPS / TLR4) Antagonist

Another one in the series of endotoxin antagonism featuring so far vitamins D and B2. Vitamin B2 (riboflavin) Is Endotoxin Antagonist Vitamin B2 Remarkably Effective Against Endotoxin, Sepsis, And Other Bacterial Infections Vitamin D Is Endotoxin (LPS / TLR4) Antagonist, May Treat LPS-linked...

raypeatforum.com

Acne can be low B5/zinc/vitamin A.
Vit.A transport requires bile /lipase/proteins-many people have liver/bile issues, avoid fat, are intoxicated by fluoride which destroys stomach lipase. Vitamin A metabolism needs many factors like healthy thyroid, molybdenum, boron, B12, zinc, steroids/D3.
Vitamin A restores microbiom.
Perhaps most lymphoproliferatic diseases can be low vit.A/zinc/B12.

VITAMIN A: Cancer Cure or Cancer Cause?

VITAMIN A : Cancer Cure or Cancer Cause?​

by Andrew W. Saul​

12 Vitamin A and Immune Function | Military Strategies for Sustainment of Nutrition and Immune Function in the Field | The National Academies Press

Read chapter 12 Vitamin A and Immune Function: Every aspect of immune function and host defense is dependent upon a proper supply and balance of nutrients...

nap.nationalacademies.org

Vitamin A (Retinol) | Complementary and Alternative Medicine | St. Luke's Hospital

Vitamin A | PHARMACISTBEN

One vitamin stands out like a diamond among ordinary gemstones.It's actually called Vitamin Alpha or more simply, as most people refer to it, as Vitamin A.

pharmacistben.com

Vitamin A Part 2 | PHARMACISTBEN

Athletes take note: Vitamin A can improve performance and provide tremendous benefits because it helps increase protein synthesis from muscle cells.

pharmacistben.com

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4387950/

Vitamin A (retinol) Is Not Toxic To The Liver In High Doses

As a follow up on my previous post, this study looks at toxicity of retinol acetate in doses exceeding 300,000 IU per day taken for months and in combination with a SERM (tamoxifen) which itself is quite estrogenic and as such is a proven liver burden. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3218964

raypeatforum.com

Retinoid receptor works in line with thyroid hormon and steroids. So "toxicity" of retinoids can come from suboptimal liver/thyroid function , steroid/farnesoid/vit.D3 deficiency.

 

[Peater]

coronavirus use a lot of vitamin A.

I never noticed any particularly resilience to respiratory illnesses of any type while eating liver with occasional sporadic D3 use.

I've had "COVID" twice. Once before it was cool in Dec 2019, and summer of 2022 ("Confirmed" with a lateral flow, whatever that's worth)

 

[md_a]

Hi , there are many discussions about vitamin A toxicity on RPF, as well as haidut put some interesting infos on this topic.
I'd like to remind that big genomes and increased metabolism, like fever/sauna, measles/RSV/ coronavirus use a lot of vitamin A.
1 year measles children get sth like 100 000 I.U every day
Sun destroys vitmin A.
Malaria can be vitamin A deficiency.
Chemotherapy damages liver , a storage of witamin A.
Chemotherapy and radiotherapy are involved in big genomes work requiring a lot of vit. A.
Autism can be improved by vit.A.
Immunity, cell differentiation, healthy epithelium depends on vitamin A.
Hyaluronate, progesterone synthesis requires vitamin A.
Heme synthesis is vitamin A dependent-low liver catalase is bad prognostic in cancer.
Eye /cornea needs zinc and vit. A- one third of Africa has this deficiency.
Retinol is LPS pathway antagonist.

Vitamin A (retinol) Is Endotoxin (LPS / TLR4) Antagonist

Another one in the series of endotoxin antagonism featuring so far vitamins D and B2. Vitamin B2 (riboflavin) Is Endotoxin Antagonist Vitamin B2 Remarkably Effective Against Endotoxin, Sepsis, And Other Bacterial Infections Vitamin D Is Endotoxin (LPS / TLR4) Antagonist, May Treat LPS-linked...

raypeatforum.com

Acne can be low B5/zinc/vitamin A.
Vit.A transport requires bile /lipase/proteins-many people have liver/bile issues, avoid fat, are intoxicated by fluoride which destroys stomach lipase. Vitamin A metabolism needs many factors like healthy thyroid, molybdenum, boron, B12, zinc, steroids/D3.
Vitamin A restores microbiom.
Perhaps most lymphoproliferatic diseases can be low vit.A/zinc/B12.

VITAMIN A: Cancer Cure or Cancer Cause?

VITAMIN A : Cancer Cure or Cancer Cause?​

by Andrew W. Saul​

12 Vitamin A and Immune Function | Military Strategies for Sustainment of Nutrition and Immune Function in the Field | The National Academies Press

Read chapter 12 Vitamin A and Immune Function: Every aspect of immune function and host defense is dependent upon a proper supply and balance of nutrients...

nap.nationalacademies.org

Vitamin A (Retinol) | Complementary and Alternative Medicine | St. Luke's Hospital

Vitamin A | PHARMACISTBEN

One vitamin stands out like a diamond among ordinary gemstones.It's actually called Vitamin Alpha or more simply, as most people refer to it, as Vitamin A.

pharmacistben.com

Vitamin A Part 2 | PHARMACISTBEN

Athletes take note: Vitamin A can improve performance and provide tremendous benefits because it helps increase protein synthesis from muscle cells.

pharmacistben.com

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4387950/

Vitamin A (retinol) Is Not Toxic To The Liver In High Doses

As a follow up on my previous post, this study looks at toxicity of retinol acetate in doses exceeding 300,000 IU per day taken for months and in combination with a SERM (tamoxifen) which itself is quite estrogenic and as such is a proven liver burden. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3218964

raypeatforum.com

Retinoid receptor works in line with thyroid hormon and steroids. So "toxicity" of retinoids can come from suboptimal liver/thyroid function , steroid/farnesoid/vit.D3 deficiency.

Very well said, only that after Ray Peat left us, we no longer like to think so deeply, too many connections require a lot of effort, this means a healthy metabolism, difficult to achieve nowadays, so we like to find a single culprit to make our lives easier.

 

[charlie]

so we like to find a single culprit to make our lives easier.

Except that is exactly what is happening. Peoples lives are becoming easier, healthier and better when limiting "vitamin A". So from my observations, the "vitamin A" science is junk science at best, or straight out witchcraft lies at worst. The "vitamin A" sacred cow has been slayed, many of you are hanging onto a dead corpse. You can keep trying to make things complicated and cry "nuances" while those leading low toxin lives become less complicated, simple, healthier and less toxic.

coronavirus

Clearly you have not looked into the work of Anthony Mawson.

 

[md_a]

Except that is exactly what is happening. Peoples lives are becoming easier, healthier and better when limiting "vitamin A". So from my observations, the "vitamin A" science is junk science at best, or straight out witchcraft lies at worst. The "vitamin A" sacred cow has been slayed, many of you are hanging onto a dead corpse. You can keep trying to make things complicated and cry "nuances" while those leading low toxin lives become less complicated, simple, healthier and less toxic.


Clearly you have not looked into the work of Anthony Mawson.

In order to be able to reduce to simplicity, we must first understand the complexity.

"Before I learned the art, a punch was just a punch, and a kick, just a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick, no longer a kick. Now that I understand the art, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick." Bruce Lee

 

[charlie]

In order to be able to reduce to simplicity, we must first understand the complexity.

Have you seen this post and also study?

Low Toxin Diet - Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

Are the concerns about ivermectin valid? I know there is this thread where @Tarmander describes his positive experience with Ivermectin: Is it Crazy to take Ivermectin Every Day? Many others have reported similar positive results with regular use. It seems to me that Garret is blowing this out...

raypeatforum.com