Friend is thinking of starting SSRI

[Nnik]

Hi!
My close friend is thinking of starting an SSRI after her therapist recommended it. She is experiencing rumination and fixating on things within relationships and worrying about what people think of her. I told her to give me a minute to gather some resources for her to try first. Can you guys give me an explanation in laymen’s terms on why SSRIs are dangerous/harmful and any resources you specifically recommend?? I know magnesium obviously can help with anxiety and maybe just decreasing estrogen? /supplementing with progesterone? I know she struggles with constipation as well which I’m sure has an huge impact on this. Any articles are helpful too! Just need some stuff to back up my claims.

 

[Jonk]

Hi!
My close friend is thinking of starting an SSRI after her therapist recommended it. She is experiencing rumination and fixating on things within relationships and worrying about what people think of her. I told her to give me a minute to gather some resources for her to try first. Can you guys give me an explanation in laymen’s terms on why SSRIs are dangerous/harmful and any resources you specifically recommend?? I know magnesium obviously can help with anxiety and maybe just decreasing estrogen? /supplementing with progesterone? I know she struggles with constipation as well which I’m sure has an huge impact on this. Any articles are helpful too! Just need some stuff to back up my claims.

Maybe do some "general" blood tests e.g. the ones Danny Roddy recommends here
View: https://youtu.be/DL2Jmca-Gt0?si=aiDHMoPwoAMh0oJ0
around 40:00. If she has for example high prolactin maybe look into ways of lowering estrogen. Low vitamin D maybe make an effort to get lots of sunlight or supplement. I would try and reassure her that there are other scientific based approaches that will not only heal her depression but moving towards health instead of ruining it. If you search the forum on serotonin and SSRIs the user Haidut has a lot of resources on their effects. Obviously while making any regimen towards fixing the issue also make an effort to do meaningful and fun activities. It's easier said than done when depressed I know, but small things matter too. Food is also very powerful but as a friend maybe it's hard to influence.

 

[Layne]

I know she struggles with constipation as well which I’m sure has an huge impact on this. Any articles are helpful too! Just need some stuff to back up my claims.

Hi @Nnik -- First, bless your heart for trying to help out your friend. You might be interested in a 5-Min. segment (link below) that was broadcast on the CBS program Full Measure, with Sharyl Attkisson. It's an interview with a Psychiatrist who's never prescribed a drug for his patients, but has spent a great deal of time helping those who have become dependent on psychiatric drugs get off of them. He also wrote a book entitled, "Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal". It's the only book written on the topic.

In the video segment, the author describes the approval process for Prozac, which he became aware of when he was appointed to the discovery process by the U.S. government as part of a lawsuit against Eli Lily. He relates how the lead investigator discovered during the approval process of Prozac that it was filled with "addictive sedatives". It also was discovered to have "amphetamine type" qualities, which could make depression worse, make people agitated, angry, more prone to suicide, etc. The interview paints a rather unflattering picture of the Psychiatric and Pharmaceutical Drug professions, which often work in collusion with the FDA to approve drugs without adequate warning about how much harm they can cause.

Something you and your friend should be aware of, is that there are a large number of stories on a major tinnitus forum (tinnitustalk) of people who took various SSRIs and whose lives have been devastated by developing permanent tinnitus. Don't ever underestimate the misery tinnitus can bring into a person's life. I suspect the thousands of doctors who prescribe SSRIs to millions of their patients never say a word about it. They may not know about it, or they may just consider it a "little ringing in the ears". Not so. Tinnitus drives many to suicide, and can be especially difficult if somebody is already struggling mentally or emotionally. -- Below is the link to the video segment.

Mad with Medication: A New View on Psychiatric Drugs
BY FULL MEASURE STAFF SUNDAY, MARCH 17TH 2019

Just one of those heartbreaking stories: (at THIS LINK)
sure2win said: ↑

So in October my doc took me off that antidepressant and prescribed Prozac and Ativan. Instantly my ears began to ring. I contacted my doc and he told me this can be a temporary side affect of the Prozac. He instructed me to try 2 more weeks on the Prozac and discontinue if it persisted. It did, so I stopped taking it. But the tinnitus never stopped.

It's been 3 months since stopping the Prozac and the tinnitus continues. I still take a very low dose of Valium for anxiety and have some depression. My life has been completely changed. I went from being a very happy and productive member of society to depressed, anxious, and dealing with tinnitus.

 

[LucH]

Just need some stuff to back up my claims.

Hi,
Two sides to convince:
1) Why not advised (brain)
2) Which nutrients should help.
For N° 2:
Depression nutrients
Haidut said on the link below:
Aside from the diet, which you probably already do properly, a few supplements have been studies successfully for depression in humans. Methylene blue reversed both unipolar and bipolar depression in as little as 2 weeks in doses of 15mg daily. Magnesium glycinate or taurate (200mg - 400mg daily) reversed major depression in less than 7 days. Glycine and taurine on their own also have these effects. Thiamine (B1), pyridoxal (B6) and niacinamide (B3) have profound anti-stress action and have also been found to reverse some cases of depression. The amino acid theanine seems capable of reversing conditions related to PTSD and childhood trauma (including sexual abuse) in doses of 400mg - 800 daily. Given its anti-serotonin effects and the mandatory role of serotonin for the formation of any traumatic memory, this is not surprising. Theanine is also glutamate antagonist and the glutamatergic system is upregulated in depression. Substances that lower cortisol can also reverse depression, so vitamin B6, glycine, DHEA, pregnenolone, progesterone, etc can all help.
There are tons of pharma drugs that can help as well, mostly the ones that oppose serotonin and/or promote dopamine.

Best Supplements For Depression?
Effects of orally administered glycine on myofibrillar proteolysis and expression of proteolytic-related genes of skeletal muscle in chicks. - PubMed - NCBI
"...The plasma corticosterone concentration was also decreased by glycine, but the plasma insulin concentration was unaffected. These results indicate that orally administered glycine suppresses myofibrillar proteolysis and expression of proteolytic-related genes of skeletal muscle by decreasing the plasma corticosterone concentration in chicks."

 

[Mister]

Look up PSSD

 

[Elie]

In addition to B6 and supportive Bs and bio-energy inspired diet, have him look into Rhodiola rosea Clinical trial of Rhodiola rosea L. extract SHR-5 in the treatment of mild to moderate depression - PubMed

If he is in North America he can email us for a sample https://nantonnutra.com/products/rhoziva
And here is a morning / Evening time program with Ashwagandha and L-theanine https://nantonnutra.com/products/rhoziva-am-pm-kit

 

[Layne]

I'm a firm believer in "Fix your GI issues, fix your brain issues". The below linked video is extraordinarily good, and lays out a clear path to fixing complicated gut issues. It's rare to find such a clear cut path toward greater wellness.

How I Reversed Chronic Constipation Using Coffee Enemas! | SIBO IBS-C Gallstones

 

[Peatress]

I see Breggin has already been mentioned. He has a lot more info on his website

Dr. Peter Breggin’s Antidepressant Drug Resource & Information Center | Psychiatric Drug Facts

For Prescribers, Scientists, Professionals, Patients and their Families Scroll right for next section Introduction by Peter R. Breggin, MD Antidepressants: Far More Harm than Good Antidepressant Neurotoxicity Antidepressants are neurotoxic, that is, they harm the brain and disrupt its functions...

psych.breggin.com

Sack the therapist. Improve your metabolism and the rumination will improve. (The friend not the OP)

 

[mostlylurking]

Hi!
My close friend is thinking of starting an SSRI after her therapist recommended it. She is experiencing rumination and fixating on things within relationships and worrying about what people think of her. I told her to give me a minute to gather some resources for her to try first. Can you guys give me an explanation in laymen’s terms on why SSRIs are dangerous/harmful and any resources you specifically recommend?? I know magnesium obviously can help with anxiety and maybe just decreasing estrogen? /supplementing with progesterone? I know she struggles with constipation as well which I’m sure has an huge impact on this. Any articles are helpful too! Just need some stuff to back up my claims.

Circular thinking (continuous rumination) can be caused by low brain energy on the cellular level. Thiamine can work wonders by improving oxidative metabolism which provides ATP (cellular energy) to the brain. It also lowers brain serotonin which is a good thing.

Depression, Anxiety, and the Chronically Hypoxic Brain - Hormones Matter

Abnormal thoughts, emotions and all forms of mental activity are produced by electrochemical reactions that are exaggerated by a mild degree of hypoxia or pseudo-hypoxia.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Effect of thiamine deficiency on brain serotonin turnover - PubMed

Serotonin turnover has been investigated in regional brain areas of rats made thiamine deficient by pyrithiamine (PT). Following intracisternal injection of [14C]5-hydroxytryptamine ([14C]5-HT), a marked increase in the accumulation of [14C]5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid ([14C]5-HIAA) was found in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Another thing to consider is your friend's estrogen situation. She may benefit greatly from taking progesterone.

suggested listening:

• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 1
• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 2
• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 3

 

[mostlylurking]

I know she struggles with constipation as well which I’m sure has an huge impact on this.

Constipation causes estrogen to be reabsorbed instead of ejected. Thiamine improves gut function.

SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency? - Hormones Matter

Is it possible that small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) is simply a symptom of an underlying vitamin B1 or thiamine deficiency?

www.hormonesmatter.com

 

[sunny]

Also, go on haidut.me , search depression, search ssri, and read info there.

 

[mostlylurking]

Substances that lower cortisol can also reverse depression, so vitamin B6, glycine, DHEA, pregnenolone, progesterone, etc can all help.

Magnesium is also known to lower cortisol.
Magnesium Status and Stress: The Vicious Circle Concept Revisited
"Cortisol: Magnesium indirectly reduces the release of ACTH by modulating the neurotransmission pathways, and therefore decreases cortisol levels in the body [42]"

 

[Nnik]

I see Breggin has already been mentioned. He has a lot more info on his website

Dr. Peter Breggin’s Antidepressant Drug Resource & Information Center | Psychiatric Drug Facts

For Prescribers, Scientists, Professionals, Patients and their Families Scroll right for next section Introduction by Peter R. Breggin, MD Antidepressants: Far More Harm than Good Antidepressant Neurotoxicity Antidepressants are neurotoxic, that is, they harm the brain and disrupt its functions...

psych.breggin.com

Sack the therapist. Improve your metabolism and the rumination will improve. (The friend not the OP)

@Peatress I am trying to click on the scientific studies that Breggin has listed in his antidepressant drugs resource center and all of the files are listed as "not found." I know he has been under scrutiny after his COVID claims so maybe these are being censored? But when I copy the author and article name into google to try and search for the article I am left with nothing. Furthermore - I am having a hard time finding any studies that are not "pro" SSRI on google. Any better places to find these non-biased articles?

Circular thinking (continuous rumination) can be caused by low brain energy on the cellular level. Thiamine can work wonders by improving oxidative metabolism which provides ATP (cellular energy) to the brain. It also lowers brain serotonin which is a good thing.

Depression, Anxiety, and the Chronically Hypoxic Brain - Hormones Matter

Abnormal thoughts, emotions and all forms of mental activity are produced by electrochemical reactions that are exaggerated by a mild degree of hypoxia or pseudo-hypoxia.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Effect of thiamine deficiency on brain serotonin turnover - PubMed

Serotonin turnover has been investigated in regional brain areas of rats made thiamine deficient by pyrithiamine (PT). Following intracisternal injection of [14C]5-hydroxytryptamine ([14C]5-HT), a marked increase in the accumulation of [14C]5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid ([14C]5-HIAA) was found in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Another thing to consider is your friend's estrogen situation. She may benefit greatly from taking progesterone.

suggested listening:

• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 1
• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 2
• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 3

@mostlylurking Where do you source your thiamine supplementation from? And what is the recommended starting dosage? I haven't dove into that supplement yet. Still trialing methylene blue, caffeine, aspirin on myself as I'm quite new to this Peat thing. Just want to make sure I'm recommending the right thing since I haven't experimented with it myself.

 

[Nnik]

Also, go on haidut.me , search depression, search ssri, and read info there.

thank you! I am going to start searching through there

 

[Peatress]

@Nnik I'm also having problems accessing all the material on the Breggin site.

There is a lot of material on the forum, if you search SSRI

Search results for query: ssri

raypeatforum.com

Just found this

SSRI Stories – Antidepressant Nightmares

Antidepressant Nightmares

ssristories.org

 

[Regina]

It's cheap enough to try GABA powder.
NOW brands has zero other ingredients.

 

[mostlylurking]

@Peatress I am trying to click on the scientific studies that Breggin has listed in his antidepressant drugs resource center and all of the files are listed as "not found." I know he has been under scrutiny after his COVID claims so maybe these are being censored? But when I copy the author and article name into google to try and search for the article I am left with nothing. Furthermore - I am having a hard time finding any studies that are not "pro" SSRI on google. Any better places to find these non-biased articles?

@mostlylurking Where do you source your thiamine supplementation from? And what is the recommended starting dosage? I haven't dove into that supplement yet. Still trialing methylene blue, caffeine, aspirin on myself as I'm quite new to this Peat thing. Just want to make sure I'm recommending the right thing since I haven't experimented with it myself.

I chose to use thiamine hcl because I was able to tolerate it without negative side effects. Thiamine hcl requires higher doses than other thiamine types because it has poor absorption through the small intestine wall. I tried to use TTFD thiamine (lower doses needed, better absorption rate) but it uses glutathione and I was deficient in glutathione so I could not tolerate the TTFD thiamine; it gave me a bad headache. My husband has no difficulty taking TTFD and he takes 200mg/day of Thiamax TTFD whereas I take 1 gram of thiamine hcl, 2Xday. It is an acquired taste, but I'm used to it now so I don't mind. I get my thiamine hcl from here.

My husband started with 100mg of TTFD and then increased it to 200mg/day after a few weeks. I started with 300mg of thiamine hcl and spent 4 months increasing the dose up to my optimum dose of 1 gram, 2Xday because I did not have a doctor to help me. I have heavy metal poisoning (mercury) and was experiencing symptoms of Wernicke's Encephalopathy with some Parkinson's symptoms thrown in when I started taking the high dose thiamine hcl. I follow Dr. Costantini's protocol for my optimal dose of thiamine hcl. My symptoms have all resolved.

Another type of thiamine that you might be interested in is the sublingual form. I tried it and it does work but I had trouble figuring out just exactly how much I might need to take of it so I went back to taking the thiamine hcl. There is a very good book available that covers taking the sublingual form.

I was not able to tolerate methylene blue because my serotonin was high because of my thiamine deficiency. Thiamine is needed to clear serotonin from the brain. Methylene Blue is an MAO inhibitor so exacerbates the problem with serotonin. I can't tolerate caffeine so I stay away from that too.

 

[Nnik]

I chose to use thiamine hcl because I was able to tolerate it without negative side effects. Thiamine hcl requires higher doses than other thiamine types because it has poor absorption through the small intestine wall. I tried to use TTFD thiamine (lower doses needed, better absorption rate) but it uses glutathione and I was deficient in glutathione so I could not tolerate the TTFD thiamine; it gave me a bad headache. My husband has no difficulty taking TTFD and he takes 200mg/day of Thiamax TTFD whereas I take 1 gram of thiamine hcl, 2Xday. It is an acquired taste, but I'm used to it now so I don't mind. I get my thiamine hcl from here.

My husband started with 100mg of TTFD and then increased it to 200mg/day after a few weeks. I started with 300mg of thiamine hcl and spent 4 months increasing the dose up to my optimum dose of 1 gram, 2Xday because I did not have a doctor to help me. I have heavy metal poisoning (mercury) and was experiencing symptoms of Wernicke's Encephalopathy with some Parkinson's symptoms thrown in when I started taking the high dose thiamine hcl. I follow Dr. Costantini's protocol for my optimal dose of thiamine hcl. My symptoms have all resolved.

Another type of thiamine that you might be interested in is the sublingual form. I tried it and it does work but I had trouble figuring out just exactly how much I might need to take of it so I went back to taking the thiamine hcl. There is a very good book available that covers taking the sublingual form.

I was not able to tolerate methylene blue because my serotonin was high because of my thiamine deficiency. Thiamine is needed to clear serotonin from the brain. Methylene Blue is an MAO inhibitor so exacerbates the problem with serotonin. I can't tolerate caffeine so I stay away from that too.

Thank you so much. This is immensely helpful! I will be looking into all of this

 

[Layne]

Very long article, but illustrates very well the rat hole of SSRI's that so many have been tragically led to take.

The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs
Millions of Americans have taken antidepressants for many years. What happens when it’s time to stop?
By Rachel Aviv

 

[mostlylurking]

Thank you so much. This is immensely helpful! I will be looking into all of this

you're welcome.