Post SSRI use.. functional dopamine deficiency?

[Greg says]

does anyone have any information or recommendations following post SSRI use. My girlfriend has used SSRIs on/off for 10 years. She now has slow peristalsis, constipation, inflammed/bloated gut.

I realise gut issues will cause huge serotonin surges which will antagonise dopamine.

Also what about SSRIs causing a functional dopamine deficiency? Like PSSD. She is experiencing anhedonia, depression. Does anyone know what mechanism is dysfunctioning here? And how to reverse it.

She did therapeutic psilocybin which initially helped her come off SSRIs but this wore off after 3 months.

 

[youngsinatra]

Hows her pulse and temperature?

 

[Greg says]

Hows her pulse and temperature?

low pulse. Low temps. Always cold. Ice cold hand, feet, bum, shoulders, nose and ears. Water retention tissue. Endometriosis symptoms, small benign breast cysts. Feeling of giving up, hibernation all high serotonin and oestrogen. No drive.

Going to do Haidut’s idealabs thyroid tests. And try thyroid.

 

[youngsinatra]

low pulse. Low temps. Always cold. Ice cold hand, feet, bum, shoulders, nose and ears. Water retention tissue. Endometriosis symptoms, small benign breast cysts. Feeling of giving up, hibernation all high serotonin and oestrogen. No drive.

Going to do Haidut’s idealabs thyroid tests. And try thyroid.

Is she eating a relatively nutritious diet? (starches, fruits, red meat, seafood, oysters, eggs, milk…)

I‘m asking, because taking thyroid on top of a poor nutritional foundation might backfire.

 

[Greg says]

Is she eating a relatively nutritious diet? (starches, fruits, red meat, seafood, oysters, eggs, milk…)

I‘m asking, because taking thyroid on top of a poor nutritional foundation might backfire.

just starting to eat better. Yeah good point. Defo needs more calories throughout day. And not go too long between eating. But figuring out what is irritating or not. Avoiding gluten.

 

[Greg says]

Is she eating a relatively nutritious diet? (starches, fruits, red meat, seafood, oysters, eggs, milk…)

I‘m asking, because taking thyroid on top of a poor nutritional foundation might backfire.

Chronically low energy. So at the point where even helping oneself seems exhaustive.

 

[mostlylurking]

does anyone have any information or recommendations following post SSRI use. My girlfriend has used SSRIs on/off for 10 years. She now has slow peristalsis, constipation, inflammed/bloated gut.

I realise gut issues will cause huge serotonin surges which will antagonise dopamine.

Also what about SSRIs causing a functional dopamine deficiency? Like PSSD. She is experiencing anhedonia, depression. Does anyone know what mechanism is dysfunctioning here? And how to reverse it.

She did therapeutic psilocybin which initially helped her come off SSRIs but this wore off after 3 months.

I've been through this myself. The symptoms you list are very familiar. Here's some suggested reading:

Serotonin Syndrome and Thiamine: Is There a Connection? - Hormones Matter

A mild deficiency of thiamine is responsible for the large number of the polysymptomatic illnesses reported.

www.hormonesmatter.com

 

[Greg says]

I've been through this myself. The symptoms you list are very familiar. Here's some suggested reading:

Serotonin Syndrome and Thiamine: Is There a Connection? - Hormones Matter

A mild deficiency of thiamine is responsible for the large number of the polysymptomatic illnesses reported.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Interesting thanks. I just bought some thiamine as I read somewhere it helped with gut issues.

 

[Makrosky]

low pulse. Low temps. Always cold. Ice cold hand, feet, bum, shoulders, nose and ears. Water retention tissue. Endometriosis symptoms, small benign breast cysts. Feeling of giving up, hibernation all high serotonin and oestrogen. No drive.

Going to do Haidut’s idealabs thyroid tests. And try thyroid.

Sounds absolutely hypothyroid.
You know the drill mate. Calories and calories and calories, good protein, good fats, nutrients and something to raise that metabolism so those calories can be used: cypro, thyroid, pregnenolone, progesterone, iodine, whatever. But that sounds like the metabolism of a reptile not a mammal (no offense).

Oh. And lots of love too. And laughs.

 

[Makrosky]

Maybe small portions of beef liver and see if she reacts good to it.

 

[Makrosky]

Also, IIRC you know how to use tianeptine. Can be tried also but very carefully. Maybe leave it for later.

Also, psilocibin not working after 3 months is expected. It needs to be taken every once in a while if it is a full dose or more frequently if it is microdosing.

She'll recover you know the methods.

 

[mostlylurking]

Interesting thanks. I just bought some thiamine as I read somewhere it helped with gut issues.

Thiamine also lowers brain serotonin. It's been a huge help to me.

 

[moa]

Thiamine also lowers brain serotonin. It's been a huge help to me.

how much, to avoid excess brain serotonin in people with slow amoa gene mutation ?

 

[dukesbobby777]

Throw the kitchen sink at it. Metergoline, bromantane (i take both) and go on a fibre free diet. Eliminate all problematic foods (which will involve most things that are 'plants'). Activated charcoal. And then just wait out the recovery period. Time is the greatest healer, but you have to wait it out.

 

[dukesbobby777]

Thiamine also lowers brain serotonin. It's been a huge help to me.

What form are you using?

 

[Herbie]

I second metergoline or harmalan or lisuride. There are many ways to approach it but at this stage in the game I'm of the opinion that diet alone is is wishful thinking.

 

[mostlylurking]

What form are you using?

Thiamine hcl.

 

[mostlylurking]

how much, to avoid excess brain serotonin in people with slow amoa gene mutation ?

I don't know. Thiamine hcl has poor absorption when taken orally so it naturally needs a much higher dose than TTFD thiamine or the sublingual type.

 

[Androsclerosis]

I took also antidepressants for 4 months, not much as your girlfriend and what I realized is that it slowed my digestion so I had to be very careful with what and how much I eat otherwise I would have bloating, endotoxin and anhedonia.
I would skip starches and focus on easily digestible foods like fruit, sugar and meat with low fat.
It took me a long way to recover.

 

[foodandtheworld]

There used to a website called L-i-g-h-t that had posted a lot of transcripts of Ray Peat's audio interviews. I remember he answered some questions from listeners about how to recover from SSRI use. I don't have any experience with it myself as I never took those.

Some links:


Peat email response on Wiki:

[Decreasing SSRI dose] It takes time to adapt to decreasing those drugs, keeping sugar up and inflammation down, including bag breathing, should help. Starting with a little, a sixth or fourth of a tablet, of cynoplus in the evening would be the best way to try it.

[Weaning off anti-depressants] Keeping the metabolic rate and cholesterol up is important, so that repair and adaptation will be quick. Progesterone reduces pain and anxiety, and pregnenolone would be the most convenient supplement for men, but it's hard to find products without allergens. Combining progesterone and DHEA or testosterone can produce the stabilizing effect without suppressing the libido. Benadryl and cyproheptadine are probably both helpful. Withdrawal from morphine and SSRIs and migraine involve some similar processes. (Reference)

[continued] It depends on how much pregnenolone you can assimilate. People would use progesterone in amounts needed to stop the withdrawal symptoms, but pregnenolone doesn't have the powerful effects of progesterone, even in multi-gram quantities, so it's just a matter of seeing what it can do. As I understand the mechanism (migraine, withdrawal, etc.), estrogen-histamine-serotonin rise on a background of hypothyroid liver malfunction, cytomel (and/or sugar, selenium, B vitamins) allows the liver and other detoxifying systems to lower them, and the lower they are, the less progesterone or pregnenolone it takes to block the symptoms.

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/getting-off-ssris-and-optimizing-thyroid-function.3447/