Cortisol, Adrenalin and thiamine deficiency - an impasse

InChristAlone

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Oh, thank you so much for thinking of me today in this way. I should really like to do that, have some extra advice from you and perhaps ask you a bit more how you managed the recovery process yourself, if you would not mind that. What you have shared with me so far has been so comforting and freeing, but I have a way to go. I do believe that my heart and soul are in the right place, but constant fear and indecision and the need to never get it wrong exhaust me and upset every body system, both physical and emotional. As you sadly know, anorexia kills. If it were to kill me, I think I can honestly say that I tried. But I am old now (60!) so perhaps that would make a difference to you? And how would I make contact with you Sugarbabe without upsetting any threads? I am not very sure how to use forums such as this one correctly.
I will inbox you :)
 

InChristAlone

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Thanks, then that explains why it helps Parkinson's. It also explains why people like @redsun get inboxed with problems going on high dose thiamine causing symptoms related to excess acetylcholine. I am someone who doesn't tolerate more brain stimulation, I already have too much focus!
 

mostlylurking

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Hello again, I have in fact just finished reading the book you recommend. It was indeed interesting to hear how different the various thiamine repletion protocols can be, also a little confusing! In fact, I ordered the Superior Source sublingual B1 about a week ago, but the shipping is going to take another three weeks apparently!
I'm so glad you read the book. Lots of good info in it. I thought that reading different people's experiences would be helpful. You have to find your own way, because you alone are inside that body and can discern what it's trying to tell you.
I did also see my GP this morning. I went armed with the print out of the Hormones Matter document: Beriberi - The Great Imitator. Unfortunately, I lost my nerve and did not give it to him. I did say that I thought I might be very deficient in thiamine but my comment did not go anywhere. I am really cross with myself now for not being more assertive. He checked me out (somewhat superficially) for peripheral neuropathy and said that he thought my problems were related to hyperventilation and my ongoingly high levels of stress. He is right of course, but we did not discuss thiamine being a likely factor in these. I was so much hoping that he would come on board and work with me. So I shall have to try and muddle through. I have taken just 50 mg of thiamine today and some magnesium (reducing from my top level of 200 mg). Perhaps I should stick at that level for a few days at least and then move up by 50 mg increments.
I'm so sorry you had difficulty with facing your doctor. I think that happens a lot. Doctors hold tight to their banner of authority and it can be very daunting to stand your ground in the face of it.
Here's another article with a symptoms list for you: 13 Signs of Thiamine Deficiency (B1)
Thank you very much for the comparisons, pros and cons of Energin versus the Pure Encapsulations B Complex Plus. I think you take the latter as a base line B complex still yourself? So you do not mind if it has quite a high level of B6 (I thought Dr. Peat suggests no more than 10 mg), folic acid and B12? Although I think I remember Dr. Constantini did have to use folic acid and B12 to help a woman he was treating who had paralysis of the legs even though (because?) she was taking thiamine in a high dose. Perhaps I should use this Pure Encapsulations product as my base line straight away and then, over time, tweak as necessary. Except I think that I must remember to eat enough (which is what I need to do to increase my weight and strength, of course) to offset the pro-metabolic effects of the additional B vitamins. It seems to be a fine and important balance that one must achieve. I am very ignorant about all this, but I continue to read and to learn as much as I am able. I so much admire your constancy to learn and experiment in a controlled way and your courage!
I did take the Pure Encapsulations B-complex Plus for a while (1 bottle?) but then I stopped it because my b-12 tested extremely high and I thought that wasn't a safe thing. I take pure powders of riboflavin, thiamine hcl, niacinamide, but no b-5, or b-6. I bought some liquid b-6 thinking that I'd take a small dose of it but haven't done so.

I really liked Dr. Costantini's advice provided on his website under Therapy and also FAQs. I feel that his advice is grounded and well reasoned.
Thank you for your comments on my diet specifically. I will try adding a little sodium bicarbonate to OJ to reduce its acid-producing effects on my inflamed oesophagus. I should love to be able to drink OJ for its benefits over and above melon and pears. Have your teeth suffered by drinking OJ? Your Haagen Dazs-like milk sounds very nice and would be comforting to my troubled and hungry soul. Why do you use fructose rather than cane sugar or honey? And in what quantity? You said that you drank a considerable amount of milk when your stomach acid was low and other proteins difficult to digest. I crave milk but try to limit myself to about 2.5 litres. Sometimes I think my body is telling me dairy is really good for me, especially to heal a very porous spine and hips and I am tempted to drink more and eat more feta cheese.
I had trouble with my teeth during the time that my thiamine function was blocked and I was so symptomatic of thiamine deficiency. I wound up with 6 cavities; I also shrank an inch in height. I attribute these to problems with calcium getting leached out of my bones by my body trying to buffer my lactic acidosis caused by the thiamine deficiency.

Ray Peat likes fructose in that it does not trigger insulin; he has said that it can get into the cells easier than other sugars.
Thank you so much.
Glad to try to help!
It is good to think that thiamine in the correct dose might ease many of my digestive complaints (reflux, constipation), as well as reducing sciatic pains. I should be greatly reassured to see the neuropathy resolve itself. I used to be a dancer and a hiker and someone who just loves to move for joy and self-expression. All these things went out of the window several years ago and life has become dull. I mean I have become dull and only half my true self.
It seems to me that ALL of your symptoms you listed could be resolved with an optimized dose of thiamine. As you can tell from reading the book, optimized doses seem to be somewhat variable. However, Dr. Costantini was pretty specific about what the dosage was that worked for his patients. He considered it to be related to the weight of the patient. He has specific advice on his website.

I spent a little over 4 months working my way up to my optimized dose of thiamine hcl. I started with 300mg of thiamine hcl 2Xday. It worked well for about 10-14 days and then not so much. Each time the dose stopped working so well I increased it. I had not found Dr. Costantini's site yet and was getting a little concerned when my dose of 1500mg/day stopped working so well. But then I found Dr. Costantini's site and read and understood that probably, based on my weight, my best dose would be 2000mg/day (2 grams, broken into 2 doses/day) so I went ahead and increased my dose yet again. I'm so glad that I did because at that dose I quickly experienced major improvements to my many symptoms.

Don't give up. Don't be afraid. Listen to your body. Don't wait for permission from the doctor because it isn't going to come. His mind is on other things.
 

Blossom

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Thanks, then that explains why it helps Parkinson's. It also explains why people like @redsun get inboxed with problems going on high dose thiamine causing symptoms related to excess acetylcholine. I am someone who doesn't tolerate more brain stimulation, I already have too much focus!
Glad it was helpful.
 

loess

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I've utilized thiamine in the TTFD form ( Eliot Overton's product "Thiamax") extensively over the past year and a half. Thiamine really is a miracle substance, in the many key ways in which it can unlock and support cells' ability to uptake and therefore utilize nutrients and protective substances. This is true for all of the organs, but especially significant for the brain.

TTFD is extremely potent and powerful, much like thyroid. And, much like thyroid, it does not act in a vacuum...it's important to make efforts to take in the nutrients, cofactors and minerals that it draws from. Regularly consuming liver and oysters, taking Epsom salt + baking soda baths and applying topical magnesium (I use Magnoil when traveling if I don't have access to a bathtub), taking a good quality B complex as has been discussed in this thread, and consuming sufficient calories from easily digestible carbohydrates have all then beneficial in my experimentation with TTFD. Like coffee, I make it a point not to consume a capsule until the latter half or end of a meal, especially breakfast... This helps decrease the likelihood of a stress response.

Highly recommend checking out Elliot Overton's YouTube channel and/or listening to any podcasts or interviews that he's featured on.

Feel free to @ or PM me with any questions or other concerns you might have with regard to thiamine. @mostlylurking, super appreciate your various contributions to the forum on this topic.
 

mostlylurking

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I've utilized thiamine in the TTFD form ( Eliot Overton's product "Thiamax") extensively over the past year and a half. Thiamine really is a miracle substance, in the many key ways in which it can unlock and support cells' ability to uptake and therefore utilize nutrients and protective substances. This is true for all of the organs, but especially significant for the brain.

TTFD is extremely potent and powerful, much like thyroid. And, much like thyroid, it does not act in a vacuum...it's important to make efforts to take in the nutrients, cofactors and minerals that it draws from. Regularly consuming liver and oysters, taking Epsom salt + baking soda baths and applying topical magnesium (I use Magnoil when traveling if I don't have access to a bathtub), taking a good quality B complex as has been discussed in this thread, and consuming sufficient calories from easily digestible carbohydrates have all then beneficial in my experimentation with TTFD. Like coffee, I make it a point not to consume a capsule until the latter half or end of a meal, especially breakfast... This helps decrease the likelihood of a stress response.

Highly recommend checking out Elliot Overton's YouTube channel and/or listening to any podcasts or interviews that he's featured on.

Feel free to @ or PM me with any questions or other concerns you might have with regard to thiamine. @mostlylurking, super appreciate your various contributions to the forum on this topic.
Thanks @loess; so glad you posted this!
 

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