Fat increases estrogen synthesis, even in menopausal females; glucose lowers it

haidut

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A fascinating study, which provides a number of important findings and insights. First, the study shows that fat (from diet or lipolysis) drives estrogen production not only in fat cells (which has been known for decades, even by mainstream medicine), but also in other organs typically not considered relevant for influencing serum estrogen levels. The study below shows that the stomach is not only also a steroidogenic organ, but a major contributor to serum levels of estrogen. I think this is the first study that implicates an organ other than the ovaries as major source of serum estradiol (E2) in females. Second, the study demonstrated that the cells lining the stomach preferentially synthesize estrogen (and not other steroids) and that serum triglycerides (derived from dietary fat or lipolysis) are both the trigger for such synthesis and also serve as the preferred (maybe even obligate?) energy source for those cells to produce estradiol. Third, since estrogen stimulates lipolysis, which elevates serum triglycerides, and the elevated serum triglycerides activate synthesis of more estrogen, this obviously forms a vicious circle. This is a great example of how estrogen stimulates its own synthesis, contrary to medicine's claims that estrogen exerts a negative feedback. The claim about negative feedback is somewhat correct, but only when it comes to central control - i.e. involving the pituitary hormones LH and FSH acting on the ovaries. When estrogen is produced in an ovary-independent manner, as it apparently can be done by the stomach, the negative feedback mechanism not only does not apply but actually turns into a positive feedback mechanism! Fourth, the study showed that dietary glucose not only did not stimulate estrogen synthesis, but lowered serum triglycerides and also lowered estrogen levels (probably by lowering the triglycerides). Fifth, estrogen increases fat gain and also fatty acid oxidation, both of these being highly detrimental to health.

In regards to dosing, the dietary fat intake that was sufficient to trigger the estrogen synthesis process was not that high - i.e. a single/bolus human-equivalent dose (HED) of about 330mg/kg of olive oil almost doubled the serum levels of estradiol (E2), and did so even in menopausal (ovariectomized) females! Not only does this once again disprove the baseless claim that menopause is a condition of estrogen "deficiency", it also means that for most people ingesting "just" 25g-30g fat per meal would be enough to replicate the design of the study. Well, since most people in the "developed" countries ingest on average (with about 30% of population ingesting way over 100g daily) 80g-90g of fat daily, this means the majority of Western populations would easily meet the dietary fat threshold for triggering estrogen synthesis. The good news is that a single HED of 300mg/kg dose of glucose not only did not increase estrogen levels but lowered them by about 25%-30% below baseline. It is also worth noting that the study used olive oil as the dietary fat source, which elevated serum triglycerides and triggered the estrogen synthesis. Most of the fat in olive oil is MUFA, which is not known to have a direct estrogenic effect itself and the oil's role in the study was simply as the catalyst and energy source for estrogen synthesis. However, the situation likely becomes much worse when the dietary fat contains anything more than a few grams of PUFA per serving since, as I posted just days ago, PUFA is directly estrogenic itself. Well, the average PUFA daily intake by Western populations is on the order of at least 10g-15g daily. Thus, the majority of Western populations are literally giving themselves doubly-estrogenic HRT multiple times daily, and the frequency as well as the length of this exposure create a health risk that likely dwarfs the risks of exposure to all other xeno-estrogens.

Stomach secretes estrogen in response to the blood triglyceride levels - Communications Biology

"...Here, we show that parietal cells act as a sensor for the blood triglyceride levels and secrete gastric estrogen in response to the blood triglyceride levels, using male and ovariectomized (OVX) female rats. Estrogen inhibits the feeding behavior and de novo lipogenesis in the liver and adipocytes (decrease of lipid supply), but increases the white adipose tissue (WAT) mass under conditions of suppressed lipogenesis (an increase of lipid uptake by WAT)14,15,16,17,18,19 and the lipid consumption in muscles20. "

"...Triglyceride (olive oil, 2.5 mL per kg body weight) or control water was orally administered to male rats, and their tail venous triglyceride, estrogen (E2), and cholesterol levels were measured before (0 h) and at 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 h after the administration (Fig. 2a). Blood triglyceride levels (basal: ~130 mg/dL) increased, peaked at 2 h post-administration (~280 mg/dL), and then declined to the basal levels (5 h) as reported previously28. Blood E2 levels (basal: ~55 pg/mL) also increased, peaked at 2 h after the administration (~85 pg/mL), and then returned to the basal levels, while blood cholesterol levels increased but were not significant. "

"...Male rats were orally administered glucose (2 g per kg body weight) or control water, and their tail venous glucose, E2, and triglyceride levels were measured before (0 h) and at 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, 3, 4, and 5 h after the administration (Fig. 2c). Blood glucose levels (basal: ~70 mg/dL) increased, peaked at 1 h after the administration (~170 mg/dL), and declined toward the basal levels32; however, blood E2 or triglyceride levels did not increase, rather decreased, when blood glucose levels were high."

"...In this study, we showed that blood triglyceride levels directly regulate the production of gastric estrogen and the following blood estrogen levels, using male and OVX female rats. Parietal cells in the stomach exclusively produce estrogen among the tissues upstream of the portal vein. Production of estrogen requires energy which parietal cells generate using triglyceride. Blood estrogen levels increase as blood triglyceride levels are rised by the oral or intravenous administration of triglyceride. Blood triglyceride-dependent increase of blood estrogen levels is canceled in GX rats."
 
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The idea of whole populations giving themselves extra-strength HRT would be funny if it were not so horrible for health.

Also, medicine seems to be averse to talking about positive feedback cycles when it comes to adaptive systems or any physiological process in general. It's all homeostasis and negative feedback. However, the idea of homeostasis taken to its logical conclusion would make it impossible to explain many disease states, since any negative change should be corrected by homeostatic mechanisms, and any total failure of these mechanisms would catastrophically lead to death. Explanations of diseases need self-sustaining positive feedback loops.
 
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haidut

haidut

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The idea of whole populations giving themselves extra-strength HRT would be funny if it were not so horrible for health.

Also, medicine seems to be averse to talking about positive feedback cycles when it comes to adaptive systems or any physiological process in general. It's all homeostasis and negative feedback. However, the idea of homeostasis taken to its logical conclusion would make it impossible to explain many disease states, since any negative change should be corrected by homeostatic mechanisms, and any total failure of these mechanisms would catastrophically lead to death. Explanations of diseases need self-sustaining positive feedback loops.

Fully agree. As Rupert Sheldrake once said, life is nothing but a form of "biological inertia" - a self-sustaining positive-feedback loop in cells, Ray called it cellular hysteresis or a "hysteresis loop". The negative feedback idea was borrowed/stolen from Norbert Wiener's work in cybernetics, despite him repeatedly cautioning that it never applies to living organisms as a whole.
 

Soren

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This would help explain the extreme decline in testosterone levels the rise of gender confusion and a myriad of other health problems.

I wonder if this study was done using a saturated fat like coconut oil or butter it would have elicited the same increase in estrogen? My guess is it would not.
 
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haidut

haidut

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This would help explain the extreme decline in testosterone levels the rise of gender confusion and a myriad of other health problems.

I wonder if this study was done using a saturated fat like coconut oil or butter it would have elicited the same increase in estrogen? My guess is it would not.

In one of the experiments they used lauric acid and it also stimulated estrogen synthesis, but not to the level olive or corn oil did. Look at Figure 5C in the study.
"...Normalized E2 levels by phospholipids were compared to those incubated with 20 nM testosterone but without lauric acid. Both testosterone and lauric acid were required for the epithelium to produce E2. Thus, parietal cells from OVX female rats can produce estrogen from testosterone in a fatty acid-dependent manner, even in the absence of the possible indirect effects of fatty acids outside the cells."

However, some saturated fats are estrogen antagonists, so eating saturated fat may have at least a mixed effect compared to the savagely estrogenic one of PUFA.
 

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@haidut, I heard that you recommend the 33/33/33 macro split on Dr. Mercola‘s recent podcast.

In this post, it seems like lower fat (than that) is better for keeping estrogen in check.

Can you elaborate on this?
 
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haidut

haidut

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@haidut, I heard that you recommend the 33/33/33 macro split on Dr. Mercola‘s recent podcast.

In this post, it seems like lower fat (than that) is better for keeping estrogen in check.

Can you elaborate on this?

Somebody asked Peat in an interview about the "ideal" macro ratio and he said it is not really known to science yet, but for long-term use and assuming not very active lifestyle the 33/33/33 is probably optimal. For sick, older people he has repeatedly said though that lower fat is better.
 

youngsinatra

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Somebody asked Peat in an interview about the "ideal" macro ratio and he said it is not really known to science yet, but for long-term use and assuming not very active lifestyle the 33/33/33 is probably optimal. For sick, older people he has repeatedly said though that lower fat is better.
Thanks.
 

Regina

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In one of the experiments they used lauric acid and it also stimulated estrogen synthesis, but not to the level olive or corn oil did. Look at Figure 5C in the study.
"...Normalized E2 levels by phospholipids were compared to those incubated with 20 nM testosterone but without lauric acid. Both testosterone and lauric acid were required for the epithelium to produce E2. Thus, parietal cells from OVX female rats can produce estrogen from testosterone in a fatty acid-dependent manner, even in the absence of the possible indirect effects of fatty acids outside the cells."

However, some saturated fats are estrogen antagonists, so eating saturated fat may have at least a mixed effect compared to the savagely estrogenic one of PUFA.
And so is this the reason, or method by which, that testosterone is aromatizable? It requires the fatty acids?? 🤔
 

Lejeboca

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When estrogen is produced in an ovary-independent manner, as it apparently can be done by the stomach, the negative feedback mechanism not only does not apply but actually turns into a positive feedback mechanism!

Could you clarify please what the players are in the positive feedback mechanism you are referring to here?

Per paper that you are citing, I infer that you meant the feedback between the tryglycerides and estrogen as major players.
However, this is a negative feedback:
(+) Triglycerides in blood → (+) Estrogen by Stomach →(-) Lipid Release from Adipose → (-) Triglycerides in blood →(-) Estrogen by Stomach
This process does not exhibit exponential growth or instability that results from an unhinged positive feedback.

In the paper, this loop is presented as follows:
When blood triglyceride levels rise, parietal cells increase the secretion of estrogen into the portal vein, which, in turn, inhibits the de novo lipogenesis and feeding behavior, enhances the uptake of lipid by adipose tissues, and the consumption of fatty acids in muscles17,20. Estrogen also decreases the lipid release from adipose tissues through the inhibition of NPY neurons47. As a result, blood triglyceride levels decrease. Conversely, when blood triglyceride levels lower, parietal cells decrease the secretion of estrogen to supply more lipid to the circulation.​


The negative feedback idea was borrowed/stolen from Norbert Wiener's work in cybernetics, despite him repeatedly cautioning that it never applies to living organisms as a whole.
Would you have a reference to the bold-faced phrase in quoting you? Thank you.

I find only Wiener stating that "uniform behavioristic analysis is applicable to both machines and living organisms, regardless of the
complexity of the behavior." [1] And that the behavior of the living organisms is purposeful with a feedback (teleological).
N.B, "Teleological behavior thus becomes synonymous with behavior controlled by negative feed-back." [1]
------
[1] Arturo Rosenblueth, Norbert Wiener, Julian Bigelow, Behavior, Purpose and Teleology, Philosophy of Science, Volume 10, Issue 1 (Jan., 1943), 18-24.
 
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haidut

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And so is this the reason, or method by which, that testosterone is aromatizable? It requires the fatty acids?? 🤔

Yes, one of them. Another one is cortisol as it also activates aromatase, which explains why stress also increases estrogen and since coritsol leads to increased lipolysis, it is the "prefect trigger" for estrogen synthesis - i.e. it both provides he preferred fuel for the aromatase-expressing cells (fat, from lipolysis) and activates the aromatase directly, probably synergistically with the activation caused by PUFA on its own.
 
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haidut

haidut

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Could you clarify please what the players are in the positive feedback mechanism you are referring to here?

Per paper that you are citing, I infer that you meant the feedback between the tryglycerides and estrogen as major players.
However, this is a negative feedback:
(+) Triglycerides in blood → (+) Estrogen by Stomach →(-) Lipid Release from Adipose → (-) Triglycerides in blood →(-) Estrogen by Stomach
This process does not exhibit exponential growth or instability that results from an unhinged positive feedback.

In the paper, this loop is presented as follows:
When blood triglyceride levels rise, parietal cells increase the secretion of estrogen into the portal vein, which, in turn, inhibits the de novo lipogenesis and feeding behavior, enhances the uptake of lipid by adipose tissues, and the consumption of fatty acids in muscles17,20. Estrogen also decreases the lipid release from adipose tissues through the inhibition of NPY neurons47. As a result, blood triglyceride levels decrease. Conversely, when blood triglyceride levels lower, parietal cells decrease the secretion of estrogen to supply more lipid to the circulation.​



Would you have a reference to the bold-faced phrase in quoting you? Thank you.

I find only Wiener stating that "uniform behavioristic analysis is applicable to both machines and living organisms, regardless of the
complexity of the behavior." [1] And that the behavior of the living organisms is purposeful with a feedback (teleological).
N.B, "Teleological behavior thus becomes synonymous with behavior controlled by negative feed-back." [1]
------
[1] Arturo Rosenblueth, Norbert Wiener, Julian Bigelow, Behavior, Purpose and Teleology, Philosophy of Science, Volume 10, Issue 1 (Jan., 1943), 18-24.

Estrogen is pro-lipolytic and also increases fatty acid oxidation (FAO). So, the signs inside parenthesis after (+) Estrogen by Stomach will also be "+" and not "-". The study admits the (+) FAO effect, but claims estrogen is anti-lipolytic, which is the mainstream medical view, but it does not correspond to the in-vivo evidence from the WHI and animal studies.
 

Regina

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Yes, one of them. Another one is cortisol as it also activates aromatase, which explains why stress also increases estrogen and since coritsol leads to increased lipolysis, it is the "prefect trigger" for estrogen synthesis - i.e. it both provides he preferred fuel for the aromatase-expressing cells (fat, from lipolysis) and activates the aromatase directly, probably synergistically with the activation caused by PUFA on its own.
Great! Thank you for the explanation and links.

btw: George Webb was talking about how IGFarben RU486 was discovered/used in the nazi camps to induce abortions in the breeding experiments with soldiers.
 

Tenacity

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Not only does this once again disprove the baseless claim that menopause is a condition of estrogen "deficiency", it also means that for most people ingesting "just" 25g-30g fat per meal would be enough to replicate the design of the study. Well, since most people in the "developed" countries ingest on average (with about 30% of population ingesting way over 100g daily) 80g-90g of fat daily, this means the majority of Western populations would easily meet the dietary fat threshold for triggering estrogen synthesis. The good news is that a single HED of 300mg/kg dose of glucose not only did not increase estrogen levels but lowered them by about 25%-30% below baseline.
Is the dose of glucose cancelling out the fat-related rise of estrogen, or is this happening when glucose is administered on its own, without fat? How much glucose to prevent the fat-related rise in estrogen if the latter?
 
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