Do You Really Have Hypothyroidism?

[Nicholas]

"...lack of fuel shuts down the conversion of T4 to T3..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOrYE2n ... r_embedded

 

[answersfound]

post 108383 "...lack of fuel shuts down the conversion of T4 to T3..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOrYE2n ... r_embedded

Rubin is just trying to get more clients. He doesn't realize not everyone lives in sunny San Diego California and lives a lifestyle that is low stress.

we live in a fast paced highly demanding society. Food quality is poor in most parts of the country. If you can use thyroid to give you an edge, you do it. No one wants to wait 1-2 years to heal their metabolism like he suggests. That is just ridiculous. This community is a huge threat to his business. Supplements and medications expedite recovery and once a client recognizes this, they won't want to "heal with just food"

He makes statements like "I'm not a doctor" but then has the balls to comment on everyone's thyroid therapy. I'd bet he takes thyroid himself. I'd bet a lot of money.

He's very careful to mention peat's name because if he does the cats out of the bag. All his potential clients will flock to the peat forums and realize what he teaches isn't rocket science and doesn't require consultations for $1000+. He claims that Peat's work is "just science." How convenient. Danny Roddy provides you with everything you need to know in a selfless non-greedy reasonable way.

After all, thyroid is a food, so he's a hypocrite.

 

[Nicholas]

i was really really hoping that this wouldn't inspire character assaults, and therefore muddy the perspective of those watching. Had these same exact words come from Danny Roddy or Ray Peat would you have said the same things? So i guess i now have to use my time to correct everything you've written:

"Rubin is just trying to get more clients."
well, yeah, that's what he does for a living. and it is what he has been doing for a living for a long time. Have you watched the hours upon hours of free information that they give on youtube and still do to this day?

"He doesn't realize not everyone lives in sunny San Diego California and lives a lifestyle that is low stress."
I can only assume by this comment that you are in your 20s and think that stress discriminates.

"we live in a fast paced highly demanding society. Food quality is poor in most parts of the country."
hogwash. food and society are not the problem. The problem is victim mentalities.

"No one wants to wait 1-2 years to heal their metabolism like he suggests."
What do you think happens when you "heal" your metabolism?....you just start doing whatever? start working 70hrs. a week and eating fritos and peanut butter? You don't get it. You have not found your answer yet and yet you walk around here telling everyone that your answer's found. Josh Rubin (like Ray Peat) is speaking about human FUNCTION. Do you respect or believe what Broda Barnes has added to the thyroid discussion? If so, then you respect and believe the very basis of the information that Josh is sharing about what defines a true hypothyroid person vs. someone who is not. Because Broda Barnes is the one who said it. Did you watch the video?

"This community is a huge threat to his business. "
I don't see how. I have never, i repeat never (except a couple times with pboy) seen on this forum the 'eastwesthealing' philosophy or their approach to recovery.

"He makes statements like "I'm not a doctor" but then has the balls to comment on everyone's thyroid therapy."
Ray Peat has the balls to talk about estrogen therapy... When you are running a serious business you have to make disclaimers because of the culture we live in now and because people are stupid and get offended easily.

"I'd bet he takes thyroid himself. I'd bet a lot of money."
ok..

"they won't want to "heal with just food" "
You say "heal with food" like that has the same definition across the board. As if to say that the Rubins entire business is founded on just a "radical" concept of healing with food. Like every other "holistic" practitioner in the world. Hippocrates may have said, like Peat, to let food be thy medicine....but neither explained what that really means. Eastwesthealing, with patients, explains what that really means. I can't speak for them, but i know they do have patients that do require supplements and/or medications. They aren't dogmatists.

"He's very careful to mention peat's name because if he does the cats out of the bag."
which would also mean he'd have to take down the dozens of videos referencing Peat. I choose to look at it a different way. I see the practice of eastwesthealing taking Peat's work to the next level for those who are primarily interested in Peat through the lense of healing from health problems...because Peat is not a practitioner. Some people have the ability to elucidate what Peat is implying about the healing process...but most do not. This can be proven by a majority of the posts on this forum that are specifically seeking help in the healing process. If anything, this forum helps his business because it gets people hooked on a common origin and when/if they get disenchanted by still not finding the answer (yet knowing they're on the right path) they may seek a practitioner's guidance that has the same origin.

"All his potential clients will flock to the peat forums and realize what he teaches isn't rocket science and doesn't require consultations for $1000+."
as i said, i have never seen what eastwesthealing teaches on this forum except maybe a few times. You don't know anything about their practice and did not even elucidate the meaning of this video, so i don't know what you are really offering to the conversation. I am only responding to you because i refuse to let your ignorance spoil a perfectly valid and intelligent conversation.

"Danny Roddy provides you with everything you need to know in a selfless non-greedy reasonable way."
Danny Roddy's philosophy and content are worlds different from the philosophy and content of eastwesthealing. they offer a completely different product. as another has mentioned on this forum, the Rubins can charge what they do because they have the most experience (and therefore better service) than any of the "Peat practitioners". As far as the industry standard, their prices are very reasonable. But a majority of the Peat forum members are people usually in their 20s and in college and can't conceive of making a grown-up expense. The Rubins are interested only in taking on patients that will work with them for 3-6 months.

 

[Brian]

Pretty good video. Peat's work is often misunderstood to be Thyroid-centric, but it actually revolves around cellular energy from what I can tell. Optimal thyroid function just happens to be one of the important results of a body receiving a steady supply of energy to its cells. Josh does a good job emphasizing this.

This is something I might share with my friend and his wife who was diagnosed by her doctor with hypothyroidism before she got pregnant. All the doctor told her was, "You're going to be hypothyroid your whole life" and prescribed her a cheapo synthetic thyroid. The doctor didn't take any time to educate her about estrogen and possible reasons why it might be elevated and how to lower it.

I suspect that my friend's high estrogen stems mostly from low fat soluble vitamins in her tissues and some insulin resistance from high fat PUFA meals with a sedentary life. This video at least would educate her a little on why cells need steady supply of glucose in order to produce thyroid hormone and some reasons why they might not be getting it.

I don't exactly agree with Josh Rubin's approach of only using food. The skillful use of supplemental fat solubles, B vitamins, aspirin, caffeine and methylene blue can greatly speed up and more fully restore oxidative metabolism when used correctly. I think the general public should be aware of how to use these supplements to their great advantage when needed. The problem with that though is most supplements in the industry are horrible quality and formulated completely wrong. Hopefully Haidut is starting a trend.

I like what Danny Roddy and Haidut are doing a lot. They are educating people through their podcasts and posts on more technical aspects of how to regain a thriving oxidative metabolism with supplements when necessary. They are basically doing it as a hobby and they are kicking **** at it. I have benefited an extreme amount from their perspective. Peat is actually starting to finally make sense to me thanks to them.

I also like Rubin's more down to Earth approach with more traditional types of meals. A combination of their approaches to Peat's work is something closer to what I practice myself and have been able to use to help friends and family.

Does Josh have any good videos about insulin resistance?

 

[jaguar43]

post 108383 "...lack of fuel shuts down the conversion of T4 to T3..."

Wrong, Ray Peat wrote this in Generative Energy.

Many researchers (before the late 1940's) found that about 40% of the people in the U.S. showed evidence of deficient thyroid function (low oxygen consumption and high serum cholesterol), and benefitted from taking a thyroid supplement. Cancer, heart disease, and high susceptibility to infections were found to be extremely prevalent in populations with subnormal thyroid function.
Low thyroid function,

Generative Energy Page 122

If this quote is accurate, ( and it most likely is) than about 40 % of people on this forum should take a thyroid supplement. However, since our environmental conditions have gotten worse over the last 75 years that percentage is probably higher.

I have to agree with answerfound. I think Mr. Rubin means well, but with biofeedback and learning, most people could help/treat themselves by just reading and listen to articles/newsletter/interviews by Ray Peat.

Knowledge isn’t a commodity, especially not a fungible commodity, as the medical business sees it. Consciousness and culture are part of the life process. It is exactly the commoditization of medical knowledge that makes it dangerous, and generally stupid.

Ray Peat

http://raypeatinsight.com/2013/06/06/ra ... /#more-882

 

[Nicholas]

post 108390 I don't exactly agree with Josh Rubin's approach of only using food.

Josh Rubin teaches clients *with* food because it's the way you learn about physiological function. I'm shocked to hear this idea around here of curing metabolism like it's a one-time event. There's no such thing. You have to *****sustain**** metabolic function. I totally agree you can "expedite" healing with various substances, but healing as a one-time event is not something that Josh Rubin is focused on, nor does it make any physiological sense. If someone doesn't know how to both heal their metabolism and then ****sustain**** this healing, then they haven't become more perceptive about themselves.

post 108390 I like what Danny Roddy and Haidut are doing a lot.

I do appreciate what Haidut is doing for sure.

post 108390 I also like Rubin's more down to Earth approach with more traditional types of meals.

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you know anything about the EWH practice/philosophy, etc.?

 

[Nicholas]

post 108394 Wrong, Ray Peat wrote this in Generative Energy.

and Josh Rubin agrees. ?

post 108394 If this quote is accurate, ( and it most likely is) than about 40 % of people on this forum should take a thyroid supplement.

Why would that quote be inaccurate? Did you watch the video? The question is not if people are thyroid deficient. The question is what kind of thyroid deficient are they. Of course many people could take thyroid and experience benefits, but are all of these people the kinds of thyroid deficient people which truly **have to have*** supplemental thyroid? You can blame Broda Barnes for defining what a truly thyroid deficient person is.

post 108394 most people could help/treat themselves by just reading and listen to articles/newsletter/interviews by Ray Peat.

as they should! Did you mistake me posting this video as an advertisement for the EWH business? I was posting it as a source of information so that people could help themselves. And here you are trying to stand in the way of scientific information that could help someone get better.

this raypeatforum is turning into a strange and unintentional psychological experiment. : )

 

[Brian]

post 108426

post 108390 I don't exactly agree with Josh Rubin's approach of only using food.

Josh Rubin teaches clients *with* food because it's the way you learn about physiological function. I'm shocked to hear this idea around here of curing metabolism like it's a one-time event. There's no such thing. You have to *****sustain**** metabolic function. I totally agree you can "expedite" healing with various substances, but healing as a one-time event is not something that Josh Rubin is focused on, nor does it make any physiological sense. If someone doesn't know how to both heal their metabolism and then ****sustain**** this healing, then they haven't become more perceptive about themselves.

post 108390 I like what Danny Roddy and Haidut are doing a lot.

I do appreciate what Haidut is doing for sure.

post 108390 I also like Rubin's more down to Earth approach with more traditional types of meals.

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you know anything about the EWH practice/philosophy, etc.?

Yeah, I like that he emphasizes on how to use actual food that a normal person would recognize as a meal as opposed to the Danny Roddy milk and OJ diet which I think won't work at all in certain situations because of bad electrolyte balance when energy is poor. I've only watched a few videos of his, but I like his fruit and roots mantra which is simple and easy to make meals out of combining with a lean-ish low liquid protein source.

 

[Joocy_J]

If you react well to thyroid and it helps you why would you not take it? Thyroid is a food anyways not a supplement.

 

[Nicholas]

post 108441 If you react well to thyroid and it helps you why would you not take it? Thyroid is a food anyways not a supplement.

Did anyone say to not take it if it helps you?

 

[Nicholas]

post 108441 Thyroid is a food anyways not a supplement.

Nobody said that thyroid is not a food.

 

[jaguar43]

post 108427

post 108394 Wrong, Ray Peat wrote this in Generative Energy.

and Josh Rubin agrees. ?

post 108394 If this quote is accurate, ( and it most likely is) than about 40 % of people on this forum should take a thyroid supplement.

Why would that quote be inaccurate? Did you watch the video? The question is not if people are thyroid deficient. The question is what kind of thyroid deficient are they. Of course many people could take thyroid and experience benefits, but are all of these people the kinds of thyroid deficient people which truly **have to have*** supplemental thyroid? You can blame Broda Barnes for defining what a truly thyroid deficient person is.

post 108394 most people could help/treat themselves by just reading and listen to articles/newsletter/interviews by Ray Peat.

as they should! Did you mistake me posting this video as an advertisement for the EWH business? I was posting it as a source of information so that people could help themselves. And here you are trying to stand in the way of scientific information that could help someone get better.

this raypeatforum is turning into a strange and unintentional psychological experiment. : )

I did watch the video, and it turns out Josh Rubin said many times that people many not need thyroid supplement and just needs to be able to handle their blood glucose by eating certain amount of foods and ratio.

He reference Dr. Broda Barnes throughout the video. But, Broda Barnes believe that more thyroid was the answer, not less.

Scientific information ? I disagree, Josh Rubin isn't a scientist, or close to one. He promotes his ideas from the source of the health industry. Nothing wrong with that, but don't label his work as something that can be equated to science in the first degree.

I think it's concerning when Josh Rubin changes the meaning of hypothyroid and use language that seems to fit his argument.

 

[Nicholas]

post 108461 it turns out Josh Rubin said many times that people many not need thyroid supplement and just needs to be able to handle their blood glucose by eating certain amount of foods and ratio.

right, this is not saying that *everyone* who takes thyroid should stop it. He's simply addressing the trend of self-diagnosing incorrectly or even being incorrectly diagnosed as true hypothyroid by a doctor. There's quite a few people on this forum who take thyroid....and when you ask them why, they don't have an answer. That's neither scientific or perceptive.

post 108461 Josh Rubin isn't a scientist, or close to one.

How do you define scientist? Google defines it: "a person who is studying or has expert knowledge of one or more of the natural or physical sciences." Do you believe that Josh Rubin's understanding of human physiology and nutrition is lacking? Are you saying that in 10+yrs. he hasn't developed a treasure-trove of data and results along the way while working with both the patient and research? In the same manner i would say that Ray Peat is not a practitioner, or close to one.

post 108461 He promotes his ideas from the source of the health industry.

Give me a quote or anything that shows Josh is promoting his ideas through a filter of the mainstream health industry. You can't and you won't.

post 108461 don't label his work as something that can be equated to science in the first degree.

I look forward to hearing how Josh Rubin's work is un-scientific. Practitioners don't work in labs or on college campuses. The practitioner's lab is the patient's health context/body. And what could be more revealing in the development of our understanding of human physiology and nutrition and the healing arts?

 

[goodandevil]

What's with the illuminati hand signs josh rubin makes? Obviously he's one of them .. "I aspire to be the Jay-Z of nutritional counseling"- josh rubin. Please

 

[answersfound]

He's a nice guy don't get me wrong

 

[jaguar43]

post 108463

post 108461 it turns out Josh Rubin said many times that people many not need thyroid supplement and just needs to be able to handle their blood glucose by eating certain amount of foods and ratio.

right, this is not saying that *everyone* who takes thyroid should stop it. He's simply addressing the trend of self-diagnosing incorrectly or even being incorrectly diagnosed as true hypothyroid by a doctor. There's quite a few people on this forum who take thyroid....and when you ask them why, they don't have an answer. That's neither scientific or perceptive.

post 108461 Josh Rubin isn't a scientist, or close to one.

How do you define scientist? Google defines it: "a person who is studying or has expert knowledge of one or more of the natural or physical sciences." Do you believe that Josh Rubin's understanding of human physiology and nutrition is lacking? Are you saying that in 10+yrs. he hasn't developed a treasure-trove of data and results along the way while working with both the patient and research? In the same manner i would say that Ray Peat is not a practitioner, or close to one.

post 108461 He promotes his ideas from the source of the health industry.

Give me a quote or anything that shows Josh is promoting his ideas through a filter of the mainstream health industry. You can't and you won't.

post 108461 don't label his work as something that can be equated to science in the first degree.

I look forward to hearing how Josh Rubin's work is un-scientific. Practitioners don't work in labs or on college campuses. The practitioner's lab is the patient's health context/body. And what could be more revealing in the development of our understanding of human physiology and nutrition and the healing arts?

And who decides if it's a incorrect diagnoses. People on this forum are intelligent. If they take thyroid, it's probably for a good reason. If they try, and don't react well. They move on or try something different. The issue isn't that people shouldn't take thyroid. The issue is that they should learn and listen to see if they need it. Josh Rubin, goes against this idea.

Expert Knowledge doesn't mean one is a scientist. A doctor, according to society has "expert knowledge". And yet fails to solve basic health problems today. A biochemist has "expert knowledge", and yet knows very little on how cells work.

He is a Chek Practitioner. That is considered the health industry.

A unscientific attitude is when one does not question or learn. The whole system, which one pays and one receives help or advice from the "expert" is unscientific. That what Josh Rubin does.

 

[Nicholas]

post 108474 And who decides if it's a incorrect diagnoses.

the patient's readings and response to various therapies.

post 108474 If they try, and don't react well. They move on or try something different.

i've seen many people here struggling taking thyroid....they take it and are just as confused as ever and haven't improved from it. not everyone, though. Sometimes the moving on to "try something different" repeats itself over and over if the person does not have a foundational understanding of the way the body works.

post 108474 The issue is that they should learn and listen to see if they need it. Josh Rubin, goes against this idea.

you've already dodged my request to quote how Josh Rubin is unscientific, but i will once again ask you here to give everyone a quote of where Josh Rubin has said that the patient should not learn and listen based on their own perception.

post 108474 A biochemist has "expert knowledge", and yet knows very little on how cells work.

Do you think Josh Rubin doesn't know how cells work or that his entire practice is based on something besides the cell?

post 108474 He is a Chek Practitioner. That is considered the health industry.

Chek is part of his background. He's developed his own practice over the years and now has his own philosophy and methods.

post 108474 The whole system, which one pays and one receives help or advice from the "expert" is unscientific.

You mean, like when people e-mail Ray Peat or do a consult with Danny Roddy or post a question on this forum for help? You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and don't know the first thing about the EWH practice and methods. Ray Peat doesn't engage in-depth with people who e-mail him questions and gives random advice (as scientific as it may be)....he doesn't get to know patients the way EWH does. Their entire practice is about guiding people in the direction of helping themselves...and giving them the foundation for helping themselves for the rest of their life.

 

[Nicholas]

if everyone agrees that lack of fuel shuts down the conversion of t4 to t3 (because Peat said it) then there should be really no disagreement with this video. If Ray Peat had put out a newsletter saying these exact same things and developing on things he has said about hypothyroidism in the past (and without the illuminati imagery) it would have been seen as brilliant and perceptive and worth noting. How many times has Peat mentioned the use of nutrition in his work? More than supplements (neither he or i are against supplements). And yet when Josh Rubin talks about how someone may have a lack of fuel or improper fuel, everyone goes mad and says "food doesn't work" or "he's so mainstream." This thread has only helped to reveal the unscientific idolization of an imaginary close-knit Ray Peat community that has hurt your ability to perceive.

 

[jaguar43]

post 108483

post 108474 And who decides if it's a incorrect diagnoses.

the patient's readings and response to various therapies.

post 108474 If they try, and don't react well. They move on or try something different.

i've seen many people here struggling taking thyroid....they take it and are just as confused as ever and haven't improved from it. not everyone, though. Sometimes the moving on to "try something different" repeats itself over and over if the person does not have a foundational understanding of the way the body works.

post 108474 The issue is that they should learn and listen to see if they need it. Josh Rubin, goes against this idea.

you've already dodged my request to quote how Josh Rubin is unscientific, but i will once again ask you here to give everyone a quote of where Josh Rubin has said that the patient should not learn and listen based on their own perception.

post 108474 A biochemist has "expert knowledge", and yet knows very little on how cells work.

Do you think Josh Rubin doesn't know how cells work or that his entire practice is based on something besides the cell?

post 108474 He is a Chek Practitioner. That is considered the health industry.

Chek is part of his background. He's developed his own practice over the years and now has his own philosophy and methods.

post 108474 The whole system, which one pays and one receives help or advice from the "expert" is unscientific.

You mean, like when people e-mail Ray Peat or do a consult with Danny Roddy or post a question on this forum for help? You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and don't know the first thing about the EWH practice and methods. Ray Peat doesn't engage in-depth with people who e-mail him questions and gives random advice (as scientific as it may be)....he doesn't get to know patients the way EWH does. Their entire practice is about guiding people in the direction of helping themselves...and giving them the foundation for helping themselves for the rest of their life.

I don't need to give a quote, thats how his business is run.He tells people what to do. On the Ray Peat Facebook group a member made a video regarding his experience with East West Healing. Josh Rubin pretty much scam the member of over 1000 dollars and ignored him after requesting more help or a refund.

He was also selling Ray Peat's dissertation on his website, while ray peat gave it to him for free.

When you email Ray Peat, does he make you pay a fee ? Or any monetary amount ? No. He receives about 140 emails per week. Any never charges for it.

BECAUSE KNOWLEDGE ISN'T A COMMODITY.

Ray Peat

 

[Nicholas]

post 108485 When you email Ray Peat, does he make you pay a fee ? Or any monetary amount ? No. He receives about 140 emails per week. Any never charges for it.

I can't comment on someone else's experience. And i don't know about the dissertation ordeal...all i know is their radio shows with him. No, Ray Peat does not charge to answer e-mails when he chooses to answer the e-mail. It may be a line or two. It may be a couple paragraphs. He's been a practitioner in the past, though, with what i can only assume required payment of some kind. And when you send an e-mail to Ray Peat with a question you get what you pay for. But that's all beside the point. You said that it's unscientific to go to the "expert". And there are a handful of Peat practitioners out there helping people for a living or for some monetary amount (Danny Roddy included). By your definition you are saying that (if money is included) Danny Roddy is unscientific along with all the other Peat practitioners....and (if one is simply going to the expert and not paying money) Ray Peat is unscientific along with this forum. But maybe i misunderstood your definition of what approach is unscientific.