Covid-19 Causing Irreversible Lung Fibrosis

[InChristAlone]

The research on covid-19 is available, I'm not here to do your work. The cnfidence I draw from the acaemic and professional ressources I research. Haidut posted stuff stressing the serotonin-angle of the pathogenesis of lung fibrosis in general and we dont know how downstream that is. Sero is often very downstream.
What we discussed is if Covid-19 differs from other flus that damage the lung. And I provided you the info how it is in fact so - via Covids very aggressive proteases. That got nothing to od with possible endotoxin burden from superinfections of bacteria that might enuse after the virus took hold - and only then serotonin woud come to play to cuase fibrosis. But as proven covid-19 will scarr the lungs long before that

Show me the mechanism a virus is destroying the lungs? How does it accomplish this? And is it just a theory or have people seen these viruses destroying healthy living tissue?

 

[tankasnowgod]

The research on covid-19 is available, I'm not here to do your work.

Wait, now it's REI's job to find sources to back up LeeLemonoil's opinion? That doesn't seem right.

 

[kyle]

I know someone thats had a persistent cough since getting pneumonia a couple years ago.

Is that lung fibrosis?

Can cyprophetadrine help heal fibrotic lung tissue?

 

[Jam]

And I provided you the info how it is in fact so - via Covids very aggressive proteases.

A 62-year-old man was successfully treated for coronavirus with a protease inhibitor.

 

[methylenewhite]

Not to say a virus couldn't aggravate already damaged lungs (as Haidut pointed out, this can happen with any flu virus), but industrial pollution should not be discounted, either.

That's a good point. Dynamics of outbreak in India will show if it's true.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Wait, now it's REI's job to find sources to back up LeeLemonoil's opinion? That doesn't seem right.

He attakced not my opinion but my presenting of the facts. It's not my job to provide facts that are easily researched within minutes.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Show me the mechanism a virus is destroying the lungs? How does it accomplish this? And is it just a theory or have people seen these viruses destroying healthy living tissue?

I've described it in all my posts before, you've read them. Via proteases. It's not so difficult to grasp. And yes, it's has actually been observed. I observed it many times in my career as a vet too.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

A 62-year-old man was successfully treated for coronavirus with a protease inhibitor.

Thanks

 

[tankasnowgod]

He attakced not my opinion but my presenting of the facts. It's not my job to provide facts that are easily researched within minutes.

I think it is your job to provide the source of those facts.

 

[postman]

 

[LeeLemonoil]

I think it is your job to provide the source of those facts.

No, it's a free forum where we post at leisure - trivial facts like how proteases work are not source-worthy. And its been well described that covid-19 expriems those aggressive proteases. If we want to discuss covid-19 then those facts are essential knowledge.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Wrong thread

 

[LLight]

Pathogens are not the cause of disease. They are only there to clean up unhealthy tissue.

Why does the body produce antimicrobial substances?

Pathogenic organisms may be able to gain access to the body when the state of the body allows it, but it does not mean they cannot be harmful once they are there, in order to remain.

 

[rei]

The research on covid-19 is available, I'm not here to do your work. The cnfidence I draw from the acaemic and professional ressources I research. Haidut posted stuff stressing the serotonin-angle of the pathogenesis of lung fibrosis in general and we dont know how downstream that is. Sero is often very downstream.
What we discussed is if Covid-19 differs from other flus that damage the lung. And I provided you the info how it is in fact so - via Covids very aggressive proteases. That got nothing to od with possible endotoxin burden from superinfections of bacteria that might enuse after the virus took hold - and only then serotonin woud come to play to cuase fibrosis. But as proven covid-19 will scarr the lungs long before that

No, it's a free forum where we post at leisure - trivial facts like how proteases work are not source-worthy. And its been well described that covid-19 expriems those aggressive proteases. If we want to discuss covid-19 then those facts are essential knowledge.

The problem is not how protease work. The problem is that you are probably being fed bullcrap disinfo.

Autopsies reveal differences between SARS and coronavirus

"unlike those who perished due to SARS, autopsies of the first two deaths in the recent outbreak reveal that their lungs did not exhibit significant pulmonary fibrosis, or thickened and stiff lung tissue, reported Sina. Instead, their lungs were found to have severe inflammations and mucus buildup, which resulted in breathing difficulty."

no protease there. So exactly like the flu, symptom depends on patient.

The system wants to declare it pandemic so it keeps the pandemic bond money, instead of paying some random investors, so there is huge incentive to spread conspiracy fearmonger while officially denying pandemic status, so the disease spreads. And then declare it pandemic because it has spread so widely and the gullible have bought all the disinfo about how dangerous it is (but only because the system worked hard to achieve it). Then as the bond money is received, it stops in it's tracks like every seasonal flu (also because no-one has incentive to actively spread it).

I go by what local health authorities say (and what doctor and nurse friends report), and we have had little problems from corona infections, everyone survived and ICU is rarely needed (unlike a certain person claimed in another thread here that everyone needs it, lol, maybe in SMOG-FILLED MALNOURISHED TOBACCO-CRAZED CHINA, this is important detail when analyzing the evidence). Local health authority has said directly that according to currently available evidenc coronavirus is not as dangerous to the patient as SARS. We are a small country far away from global politics, so i trust it more than unelected unaccountable international organizations, especially ones behind the bond scheme.

So instead of referencing "known facts" reference the evidence.

 

[InChristAlone]

I've described it in all my posts before, you've read them. Via proteases. It's not so difficult to grasp. And yes, it's has actually been observed. I observed it many times in my career as a vet too.

I said healthy tissue. Show me a virus that can kill healthy lungs.

 

[Peater Piper]

I found this pretty interesting. Viral pneumonia has unique imaging patterns based on the viridae.

https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/full/10.1148/rg.2018170048

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Many factors could explain the variety in lethality / severity of cases. I think it might be true that pollution in China factors in, eben genetic variants in both host populations and virus are not ruled out yet.

The two examined died patients from the autopsies that you reference as indications have died of severe inflammation.
They died even before massive scarring occurred then. Scarring takes some time. Their lung tissue was in a state of ongoing inflammatio - had they survived, they would have developed fibrosis.. The inflammation was there because the protested divulge tissue - the virus itself but also fractions of destroyed tissue provoke inflammatory responses.
I wouldn’t trust your doctor and nurse friends not your own physiological education if you ignore those simple realities.

The problem is not how protease work. The problem is that you are probably being fed bullcrap disinfo.
no protease there. So exactly like the flu, symptom depends on patient.

The system wants to declare it pandemic so it keeps the pandemic bond money, instead of paying some random investors, so there is huge incentive to spread conspiracy fearmonger while officially denying pandemic status, so the disease spreads. And then declare it pandemic because it has spread so widely and the gullible have bought all the disinfo about how dangerous it is (but only because the system worked hard to achieve it). Then as the bond money is received, it stops in it's tracks like every seasonal flu (also because no-one has incentive to actively spread it).

I go by what local health authorities say (and what doctor and nurse friends report), and we have had little problems from corona infections, everyone survived and ICU is rarely needed (unlike a certain person claimed in another thread here that everyone needs it, lol, maybe in SMOG-FILLED MALNOURISHED TOBACCO-CRAZED CHINA, this is important detail when analyzing the evidence). Local health authority has said directly that according to currently available evidenc coronavirus is not as dangerous to the patient as SARS. We are a small country far away from global politics, so i trust it more than unelected unaccountable international organizations, especially ones behind the bond scheme.

So instead of referencing "known facts" reference the evidence.

/

 

[LeeLemonoil]

I said healthy tissue. Show me a virus that can kill healthy lungs.

You’re rationale is flawed. Pathogens don’t exist to „clean unhealthy tissue“.
They engage where they can. And they don’t fulfill a functional role like cleaning - what you imply. They live and spread. How microbes interact with host organisms - detrimental or beneficial effects - is due to billion years of evolutionary adjustment. We have an immune system not for nothing.

So - your fictional „healthy“ lung doesn’t exist in the sense you present it. There is no universal state of health that is uninfectable.
There are only situations and conditions why viruses become a severe infectious disease or why they can be reigned in by the immune defense.
By your definition, healthy stays healthy forever. That’s false.
The viruses that exprime proteases habe developed them because it is their way of interacting with their environment. If for some intricate reasons your lung is suspect to that they will damage it. If not, then not. Even „healthy“ lungs by your definition, those that come in contact with the virus without developing or noticing sickness symptoms, might have some might have minor scarring before the virus was reigned in.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

I found this pretty interesting. Viral pneumonia has unique imaging patterns based on the viridae.

https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/full/10.1148/rg.2018170048

Good find. That‘s why or how -19 differs from other pulmonary pathogens. It is more aggressive than some others in clinging and attacking tissue and would therefore shoe characteristic patterns on imaging.
As the authors also say, other factors determine the image too but I think you’d be able to identify covid-19 damages with high probability even in a diverse group of patients that undergo imaging after they were infected with covid-19.

 

[BrianF]

My Father died of pulmonary fibrosis of the lungs and I did not (and still don't) believe that the condition was irreversible. Like most people, he put too much faith in the knowledge of his Doctors and the medical establishment at large. My advice to him wasn't heeded. Perhaps I never fought hard enough to get through to him and my Mother. That haunts me to this day. But no way would I accept that this condition is irreversible.