Mr Joe

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Apr 27, 2019
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2 Years ago Symptoms : All day Anxiety, Depression Emergency state. Any bad thought would cause belly contraction and a cycle of stress diffucult to calm. Sleepness, GERD intense headaches when doing mental effort. I am understanding now that all of these could be symptoms of very low metabolism state, high cortisol and prolactin and... LOW CO2 !! After doing blood test indeed i had ACTH and Prolactin much higher than the upper limit. I've came to the conclusion that CO2 on the long term should be increase, and mainly cure hypothyroidism. But i pointed out that taking T3 was usless and that stress cycle should be broken first before working on Thyroid.

After reading @haidut posts on different supplements (and after discussion with my doctor), i've decided to engage a protocol :

During one week : (1000 mg thiamine + 4 mg cypro + 1mg lisuride + 8 mcg T3 + 500 mg Niacinamide + 30 mg pregnenolone) every 4 hours and (Emodin + Magnesium + Cypro + Progesterone) before sleep.
During another week : (5 mg MB + 5 mg 5alphaDHP + 30 mg pregnenolone) every 4 hours and (Emodin + Magnesium + MB + theanine) before sleep.
During another week : Diamant + Protocol serotonin depletion with BCAA lysin tyrosine combo + cleaning all TLR4 endotoxin with amoxicillin and Camphor. Then DHEA + Pregno + Andro + Emodin before sleep.

I now that i am using much higher dose then many people here but i've got great results so far with that i have the feeling that for some case drasctical input is needed to stop the cascade. Then when things are calming down, decreasing dosages and work only on small dosage for androgen synthesis or thyroid (or when stressful day).

Any similar experience guys ?
 

AllThingsPeat

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Nov 11, 2019
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I've been doing a similar experiment with 2 g thiamine, 4 mg cypro, and 5 mg of exemestane daily for the past couple of weeks; and after over a year of experimentation, my dysautonomia finally seems to be improving thanks to this stack. Before, I could barely tolerate T3, had diarrhea every day, and any form of mental exertion would produce a full-on adrenaline rush—it was pretty terrible.

So I agree that in a severely compromised metabolic state, drastic intervention is often necessary to stop the estrogen and serotonin-driven positive feedback loops of the stress cascade. Concurrent B1 supplementation can then get PDH up and running and fuel can be oxidized efficiently. This is what I'm seems to be happening, anyway. I'm certainly not recovered yet.
 

tankasnowgod

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Jan 25, 2014
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During one week : (1000 mg thiamine + 4 mg cypro + 1mg lisuride + 8 mcg T3 + 500 mg Niacinamide + 30 mg pregnenolone) every 4 hours and (Emodin + Magnesium + Cypro + Progesterone) before sleep.
Well, hope you don't have anything to do that first week if you're taking cypro every four hours. Cypro can make you very tired. Certainly don't operate any heavy machinery (like drive a car) until you know how it affects you, or you've bypassed the initial "zombie tiredness" stage.

1mg of lisuride is huge. Daily doses are usually in the mcg range. And taking a dopamine agonist after the morning isn't usually recommended.
 

Mr Joe

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I've been doing a similar experiment with 2 g thiamine, 4 mg cypro, and 5 mg of exemestane daily for the past couple of weeks; and after over a year of experimentation, my dysautonomia finally seems to be improving thanks to this stack. Before, I could barely tolerate T3, had diarrhea every day, and any form of mental exertion would produce a full-on adrenaline rush—it was pretty terrible.

So I agree that in a severely compromised metabolic state, drastic intervention is often necessary to stop the estrogen and serotonin-driven positive feedback loops of the stress cascade. Concurrent B1 supplementation can then get PDH up and running and fuel can be oxidized efficiently. This is what I'm seems to be happening, anyway. I'm certainly not recovered yet.
Have you ever tried combining B1 with some MB ? Seems very effective for highly low metabolism.
 

Mr Joe

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Well, hope you don't have anything to do that first week if you're taking cypro every four hours. Cypro can make you very tired. Certainly don't operate any heavy machinery (like drive a car) until you know how it affects you, or you've bypassed the initial "zombie tiredness" stage.

1mg of lisuride is huge. Daily doses are usually in the mcg range. And taking a dopamine agonist after the morning isn't usually recommended.
Sorry my bad, i meant "1 mcg" :sour:. With 1 mg i should have probably stayed awake for 1 week aha. Indeed first time using Cypro felt like a zombie, but after some days it was ok. Reaction to first time Cypro seems to be a good indactor of metabolic rate.
 

Jem Oz

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Jun 13, 2016
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Following. Keep us updated. I think my own health has gone somewhere similar. I'm slowly building up to a high dose B1 experiment. Always nervous around supps, but I agree, when you're in a prolonged stress state, something drastic is needed.
 

Mr Joe

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Following. Keep us updated. I think my own health has gone somewhere similar. I'm slowly building up to a high dose B1 experiment. Always nervous around supps, but I agree, when you're in a prolonged stress state, something drastic is needed.
Yes sir i will keep updating. I guess we share all the same doubts when it comes to supps especially in an anxiety state. We all want to find best products and increase dosage as much as it work. Focusing 100% in "feeling" can be tricky for some of us, indeed you can drink an orange juice and having a bad thought at the same moment, then having stress reaction (because of the thought) and suppose that orange juice is something bad for you. That's why i'm trying to figuring out which supps are safe even at high dose. So far Thiamine, Niacinamide, Theanine, Progesterone (and Lysine ?) seems to play the role of superman for all kind of extreme cases. If you see others share with us guys.
 

Jem Oz

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Yes sir i will keep updating. I guess we share all the same doubts when it comes to supps especially in an anxiety state. We all want to find best products and increase dosage as much as it work. Focusing 100% in "feeling" can be tricky for some of us, indeed you can drink an orange juice and having a bad thought at the same moment, then having stress reaction (because of the thought) and suppose that orange juice is something bad for you. That's why i'm trying to figuring out which supps are safe even at high dose. So far Thiamine, Niacinamide, Theanine, Progesterone (and Lysine ?) seems to play the role of superman for all kind of extreme cases. If you see others share with us guys.
So true. Glad I'm not the only one. When you're in a rolling stress state, you become super sensitive to your body and the mind can play mean tricks. I like your phrase "emergency state". Sums up how I've been feeling. Whenever people talk about "anxiety" or "brain fog", it doesn't resonate, but emergency state sure does. Seems to come on with me lately with anything requiring a modicum of mental effort. I can sort of feel my brain getting heavy and shutting down.

Lots of research into B1 deficiency plus finally accepting that I'm hypo, I'm feeling hopeful that I can turn the ship around. Might take a few months. I've never tried Lysine. I was experimenting with prog, but someone told me that if you're hypo, taking lots of prog might not be wise. Aspirin can be a godsend. I'm staying away from cypro for now (although have used heavily in the past), because I've just started NDT, and I had one day where I took both, and my god, I became a total zombie.

Hope we can both make big improvements.
 

AllThingsPeat

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Have you ever tried combining B1 with some MB ? Seems very effective for highly low metabolism.
I used to take 400 mcg of MB + 500 mg of B1 a day. But this was when my stress levels were at their highest, so I think my body was struggling to utilize the B1.

I do think they would synergize well though. Especially with some B3 and a quinone like K2 or emodin, like you mentioned, to boost NAD. @Hans wrote about this in a recent newsletter of his.

I Might try MB again now that I seem to have the serotonin under control.
 

Mr Joe

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So true. Glad I'm not the only one. When you're in a rolling stress state, you become super sensitive to your body and the mind can play mean tricks. I like your phrase "emergency state". Sums up how I've been feeling. Whenever people talk about "anxiety" or "brain fog", it doesn't resonate, but emergency state sure does. Seems to come on with me lately with anything requiring a modicum of mental effort. I can sort of feel my brain getting heavy and shutting down.

Lots of research into B1 deficiency plus finally accepting that I'm hypo, I'm feeling hopeful that I can turn the ship around. Might take a few months. I've never tried Lysine. I was experimenting with prog, but someone told me that if you're hypo, taking lots of prog might not be wise. Aspirin can be a godsend. I'm staying away from cypro for now (although have used heavily in the past), because I've just started NDT, and I had one day where I took both, and my god, I became a total zombie.

Hope we can both make big improvements.
Oh definitely, once you find the way its just a matter of time and tries. When you are in 24hour emergency state your serotonin, dopamin and cortisol receptors are beeing less sensitive and thus increase the need of serotonin and all. This will also cause hypo and create lots of problems such as bacteria accumulation. Once you stop the stress reaction, your receptors will "breathe" and sensitivity will increase and thus decreasing the need of those. If you were working on glycolysis for many years bidding cortisol could create slightly bad reaction (due to recalibration), but if you compensate with things like Thiamine or Thyroid it will be much quicker healing.
Once you survive such great experience, we will definitely see life at a different point of view and enjoying every minute of bird sounds withouth stupid headache or anything else (plus having this amazing chance to have discovered all raypeat community).
 

Mr Joe

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I used to take 400 mcg of MB + 500 mg of B1 a day. But this was when my stress levels were at their highest, so I think my body was struggling to utilize the B1.

I do think they would synergize well though. Especially with some B3 and a quinone like K2 or emodin, like you mentioned, to boost NAD. @Hans wrote about this in a recent newsletter of his.

I Might try MB again now that I seem to have the serotonin under control.
You should ! 400 mcg is not so high actually. Have you seen haidut post on MB used at 15 mg daily for few weeks treating severe cases of depression ? I think he mentionned (eventhought it was for special study case) that researchers used 200 mg !!!! for i don't remember which experience.
 

AllThingsPeat

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Nov 11, 2019
Messages
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You should ! 400 mcg is not so high actually. Have you seen haidut post on MB used at 15 mg daily for few weeks treating severe cases of depression ? I think he mentionned (eventhought it was for special study case) that researchers used 200 mg !!!! for i don't remember which experience.
True. I was just paranoid about the MAO-A inhibition at higher dose lol. But I've seen people on here taking several mg's daily with no issue.
 
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