Coimbra Protocol

[Tarmander]

I would like to discuss the Coimbra protocol for autoimmune disease. There is no master thread on this subject on the forums yet. Coimbra is a doctor from Brazil that is using this protocol to treat mostly people with MS. The results seem pretty amazing with many people regaining the ability to walk and function.

For those not familiar it involves taking large doses of vitamin D, and changing your lifestyle to revolve around those large doses. Here is more detail:
Coimbra Protocol - General Information

•The biggest thing in this protocol is managing the large amounts of calcium released by the vitamin D. You need a low calcium diet. You must monitor your blood calcium and PTH levels to make sure you are getting the right dosage of vitamin D, and not hurting your kidneys with all the calcium.

•Coimbra says anyone can take 10k IU vitamin D per day, and get partial relief from autoimmune symptoms, and that higher doses can get full relief.

•There are statistics like "95% success rate." These stats are probably pretty bogus. As far as I can tell, there is no rigorous way of measuring the success rate as the timelines for success are sometimes years and involve a lot of different lifestyle and diet changes. Coimbra himself refuses to do any studies on it because he says it would be immoral to treat the people with MS with a placebo, and with the varying dosages it would be impractical to create a study (something like that). In other words, one person's dose may be 40k IU per day, and another's 200k IU per day. If you give the 200k to the 40k guy, his kidneys would shut down while the 200k guy would be fine.

•Here is an actual study using 35k IU per day for psoriasis and vitiglio: A pilot study assessing the effect of prolonged administration of high daily doses of vitamin D on the clinical course of vitiligo and psoriasis

•Here are a bunch of other studies relating to vitamin D, MS, and other autoimmune: Vitamin D: Scientific Studies & News : Coimbra High-Dose Vitamin D Protocol - Page 7 - This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Community: Knowledge & Support

•To get the discussion kicked off, I am worried a bit about gallbladder issues on these high doses of vitamin D (Regulation of Bile Acid Synthesis by Fat-soluble Vitamins A and D). The body seems to limit bile secretion when vitamin D is taken in. This could theoretically cause gallbladder issues and clogs. I have yet to find anyone who has mentioned having gallbladder issues though.

 

[SB4]

I have this on my list of potential things to try. I am somewhat hesitant however as I have read a fair number of reports of people trying it and it f***ing them up. Some have reported initial benefits then massive decline. So definitely proceed with caution.

I have read how vitamin D suppress the immune system. This is no doubt good when the body is doing it in it's natural enviroment but when you are forcing massive D doses? Could lead to trouble.

On the other hand if you have an autoimmune condition then, your body may be malfunctioning so suppressing the immune system is beneficial.

Still not sure whether I am going to try this. I look forward to the discussion on this thread though.

 

[Tarmander]

I have this on my list of potential things to try. I am somewhat hesitant however as I have read a fair number of reports of people trying it and it f***ing them up. Some have reported initial benefits then massive decline. So definitely proceed with caution.

I have read how vitamin D suppress the immune system. This is no doubt good when the body is doing it in it's natural enviroment but when you are forcing massive D doses? Could lead to trouble.

On the other hand if you have an autoimmune condition then, your body may be malfunctioning so suppressing the immune system is beneficial.

Still not sure whether I am going to try this. I look forward to the discussion on this thread though.

Do you have any of those reports of people ******* themselves up? I would be curious to see that as I have not run across that much...seems all butterflies and rainbows.

 

[Blossom]

I was considering this mid-summer and started on 10k daily while I planned to do more research. Due to some time intensive family issues that came up I have yet to get the blood work etc. so I've just stayed at 10k for now. With this amount I don't have to restrict calcium. I would still like to get my D and PTH tested but I'm feeling much better inflammation wise lately so I may not need to go full on Coimbra after all.
I'm interested in the reports @SB4 and thanks for starting this thread @Tarmander.

 

[lollipop]

@Blossom specifically, how did you notice better results with inflammation? Or in other words what differences?

 

[ecstatichamster]

I asked Dr Peat about this protocol.

‘I agree that PTH should be at the low end of the normal range, but not much else; it looks like cliché medicine with vitamin D.”

 

[Blossom]

@Blossom specifically, how did you notice better results with inflammation? Or in other words what differences?

@lisaferraro
I was primarily having joint (and nerve) pain, blurred vision and very dry mucus membranes. My finger tips swelled and hands hurt regularly. Nothing debilitating but uncomfortable. I'm not sure exactly what resolved my inflammation because I made multiple changes about the same time unfortunately. I was going to do better controlled experiments but life got in the way!
Thanks @ecstatichamster for sharing Ray's opinion!

 

[lollipop]

@lisaferraro
I was primarily having joint (and nerve) pain, blurred vision and very dry mucus membranes. My finger tips swelled and hands hurt regularly. Nothing debilitating but uncomfortable. I'm not sure exactly what resolved my inflammation because I made multiple changes about the same time unfortunately. I was going to do better controlled experiments but life got in the way!
Thanks @ecstatichamster for sharing Ray's opinion!

Interesting. Thank you

 

[charlie]

Coimbra helps for LPR. Staying up with the magnesium is hard though. You burn through magnesium fast and that will bring on issues.

 

[Tarmander]

Coimbra helps for LPR. Staying up with the magnesium is hard though. You burn through magnesium fast and that will bring on issues.

Laryngopharyngeal reflux?

I asked Dr Peat about this protocol.

‘I agree that PTH should be at the low end of the normal range, but not much else; it looks like cliché medicine with vitamin D.”

What does he mean by cliche? Like all these people treating their MS are sooo commonplace?

 

[SB4]

Do you have any of those reports of people ******* themselves up? I would be curious to see that as I have not run across that much...seems all butterflies and rainbows.

Sorry it was a few months ago so I can't remember however I did a quick search and found this thread which has some positive and negative opinion on it. The very last comment claims to have been made worse by it but unfortunately we don't know if they where doing it right, etc.

 

[charlie]

Laryngopharyngeal reflux?

Yes. I think I found something better for it though, and natural. Will report that later in another thread if all goes well.

 

[Amazoniac]

What does he mean by cliche? Like all these people treating their MS are sooo commonplace?

Probably that it is a reductinist approach, and the benefit comes from suppressing PTH and not from increasing vit D (?), which is something that can be accomplished without taking massive amounts of it.

 

[Tarmander]

Yes. I think I found something better for it though, and natural. Will report that later in another thread if all goes well.

Nice, I am actually curious. I did not know what this was until you just linked to it.

 

[charlie]

Nice, I am actually curious. I did not know what this was until you just linked to it.

Some people call it an "auto-immune" condition.

 

[charlie]

@Makafre is doing the Coimbra protocol for MS. Maybe he has an update....

 

[Tarmander]

Some people call it an "auto-immune" condition.

Reading more about this LPR is really interesting. One of the reasons I avoid alcohol is because I cough up phlegm for like a week afterwards. I wonder if that is connected. What is your natural way of fighting it?

 

[Amazoniac]

[..]the Japanese have done studies using just vitamin K. And, very high doses of it very effectively rebuild osteoporotic bones, while taking calcium out of arteries in their animal studies. But vitamin K is working on cellular energy and specifically on the handling of carbon dioxide as a group that lets the proteins handle calcium. And things that increase your carbon dioxide work right along with vitamin K in helping to keep the calcium and phosphate in your bones rather than in your arteries. Even baking soda helps to build strong bones. And in the way it's acting, it's the same as vitamin K or niacinamide; it's helping the kidneys to excrete phosphate that you don't need, helping to deposit calcium and phosphate in the bones, while taking it out of arteries.

Andrew: Talk a bit about parathyroid hormone, calcium and phosphate.

Peat: People who have good thyroid function and get enough calcium in their diet have a pretty low parathyroid hormone activity, towards…it’s the low end of what's now considered the normal range. At the middle of the so-called normal range, people tend to suffer inflammatory diseases, muscle pains, bone loss and so on. And the higher the parathyroid is, the more these degenerative, inflammatory diseases you have. And the first way to suppress excess parathyroid is by eating enough calcium but also vitamin d, that's the next most important thing.

Sarah: So if somebody doesn't get enough calcium+vitamin d, then they will be eating their bones?

Peat: Yeah. In an experiment with animals 35 years ago, they put one group on a starchy diet, the other group with only sugar as the carbohydrate and a vitamin d deficiency; and the ones on the regular starchy diet had very weak atrophied bones because they weren't getting enough vitamin d to handle the calcium.

Plug.

--
- Hypercalcemia of Malignancy: An Update on Pathogenesis and Management
- Cancer-Related Hypercalcemia
- Say No to Bisphosphonates - Gershom Zajicek (Cicerus uses as a last resource)

 

[lollipop]

Reading more about this LPR is really interesting. One of the reasons I avoid alcohol is because I cough up phlegm for like a week afterwards. I wonder if that is connected. What is your natural way of fighting it?

Curious as well @charlie and @Tarmander.

 

[GAF]

Reading more about this LPR is really interesting. One of the reasons I avoid alcohol is because I cough up phlegm for like a week afterwards. I wonder if that is connected. What is your natural way of fighting it?

There is a current thread called "Silent Reflux" that has interesting info in it regarding LPR.