Rosacea And Antimicrobial Peptides

Peatogenic

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In the apparent autoimmune condition of rosacea, there was a study that showed higher serum vit D in rosaceans than healthy patients, but it still needs "further research", but that vit D supplementation might be harmful for rosaceans. (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/15569527.2013.797907)

Another study showed lower vitamin D levels but higher cathelicidin levels:

A Study on Vitamin D and Cathelicidin Status in Patients with Rosacea: Serum Level and Tissue Expression

"Higher cathelicidin expression in rosacea supports the hypothesis that an abnormal inflammatory response of the innate immune system is important in pathogenesis of rosacea, but the role of high cathelicidin serum levels is complicated. Serum vitamin D was lower in patients with rosacea, although serum cathelicidin was higher than that of the controls. This suggests that the role of vitamin D level in the pathogenesis of rosacea merits further investigation."

Vitamin D boosts innate immune response by induction of the human gene for cathelicidin, CAMP.

Ray Peat says, "things that cause inflammation stimulate the defensive formation of proteases and cathelicidin"...."so it doesn't seem productive to say that "too much" of those defensive proteins is the cause of rosacea. Isn't it a little like saying that pus is the cause of boils?" Peat seems to recommend things to lower endotoxin for rosacea or correcting nutritional deficiencies like riboflavin. Riboflavin is a known endotoxin antagonist, and I also know of a study that shows riboflavin deficient rats have mite dysregulation (there's a theory of rosacea being a demodex mite dysregulation).

So I'm confused....Vitamin D is anti inflammatory.....the cathelicidin response is supposed to be anti inflammatory...yet it's referred to as causing inflammation in rosaceans, the cause of the inflammation...how could something be both inflammatory and anti inflammatory at the same time?

To avoid sunlight or vit D would just create new imbalances. I kind of understand now the rationale of the Coimbra protocol. Forgive me if I'm missing something basic...im not super studied in this subject.
 
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ivy

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In the apparent autoimmune condition of rosacea, there was a study that showed higher serum vit D in rosaceans than healthy patients, but it still needs "further research", but that vit D supplementation might be harmful for rosaceans. (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/15569527.2013.797907)

Another study showed lower vitamin D levels but higher cathelicidin levels:

A Study on Vitamin D and Cathelicidin Status in Patients with Rosacea: Serum Level and Tissue Expression

"Higher cathelicidin expression in rosacea supports the hypothesis that an abnormal inflammatory response of the innate immune system is important in pathogenesis of rosacea, but the role of high cathelicidin serum levels is complicated. Serum vitamin D was lower in patients with rosacea, although serum cathelicidin was higher than that of the controls. This suggests that the role of vitamin D level in the pathogenesis of rosacea merits further investigation."

Vitamin D boosts innate immune response by induction of the human gene for cathelicidin, CAMP.

Ray Peat says, "things that cause inflammation stimulate the defensive formation of proteases and cathelicidin"...."so it doesn't seem productive to say that "too much" of those defensive proteins is the cause of rosacea. Isn't it a little like saying that pus is the cause of boils?" Peat seems to recommend things to lower endotoxin for rosacea or correcting nutritional deficiencies like riboflavin. Riboflavin is a known endotoxin antagonist, and I also know of a study that shows riboflavin deficient rats have mite dysregulation (there's a theory of rosacea being a demodex mite dysregulation).

So I'm confused....Vitamin D is anti inflammatory.....the cathelicidin response is supposed to be anti inflammatory...yet it's referred to as causing inflammation in rosaceans, the cause of the inflammation...how could something be both inflammatory and anti inflammatory at the same time?

To avoid sunlight or vit D would just create new imbalances. I kind of understand now the rationale of the Coimbra protocol. Forgive me if I'm missing something basic...im not super studied in this subject.
I wish someone would pitch in. I began to supplement with 12000IU Vit D in olive oil to help with Covid recovery and I kept at it to support my hair. But in the meantime, my rosacea is way worse. I hadn't associated between the two... ***t.

If you don't mind me asking, how does the Coimbra protocol relate to this?
 

LeeLemonoil

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Vitamin D is not anti-inflammatory per se.
It’s immune-modulating and regulating. It can be both pro- and anti-inflammatory depending on various factors
 

ivy

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Vitamin D is not anti-inflammatory per se.
It’s immune-modulating and regulating. It can be both pro- and anti-inflammatory depending on various factors
Well, thanks. I'll have to stop it and reach some sort of conclusion. The ratio of Vit A to Vit D seems to be relevant, as mentioned in another rosacea thread. I think I'd rather steer clear of more "safe" supplements and tweak my diet.
 

Trullo

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In the apparent autoimmune condition of rosacea, there was a study that showed higher serum vit D in rosaceans than healthy patients, but it still needs "further research", but that vit D supplementation might be harmful for rosaceans. (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/15569527.2013.797907)

Another study showed lower vitamin D levels but higher cathelicidin levels:

A Study on Vitamin D and Cathelicidin Status in Patients with Rosacea: Serum Level and Tissue Expression

"Higher cathelicidin expression in rosacea supports the hypothesis that an abnormal inflammatory response of the innate immune system is important in pathogenesis of rosacea, but the role of high cathelicidin serum levels is complicated. Serum vitamin D was lower in patients with rosacea, although serum cathelicidin was higher than that of the controls. This suggests that the role of vitamin D level in the pathogenesis of rosacea merits further investigation."

Vitamin D boosts innate immune response by induction of the human gene for cathelicidin, CAMP.

Ray Peat says, "things that cause inflammation stimulate the defensive formation of proteases and cathelicidin"...."so it doesn't seem productive to say that "too much" of those defensive proteins is the cause of rosacea. Isn't it a little like saying that pus is the cause of boils?" Peat seems to recommend things to lower endotoxin for rosacea or correcting nutritional deficiencies like riboflavin. Riboflavin is a known endotoxin antagonist, and I also know of a study that shows riboflavin deficient rats have mite dysregulation (there's a theory of rosacea being a demodex mite dysregulation).

So I'm confused....Vitamin D is anti inflammatory.....the cathelicidin response is supposed to be anti inflammatory...yet it's referred to as causing inflammation in rosaceans, the cause of the inflammation...how could something be both inflammatory and anti inflammatory at the same time?

To avoid sunlight or vit D would just create new imbalances. I kind of understand now the rationale of the Coimbra protocol. Forgive me if I'm missing something basic...im not super studied in this subject.
I know that sound a bit strange but can it be this:


Possibile that as in the HIV infection a reactivation of immune system creates a reconstruction inflammatory syndrome?
 

LadyRae

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Have you looked in to Demodex mites as the cause of rosacea? An Ivermectin cream cleared mine up in 3 weeks. I've been trying everything to get rid of it for over a year, including expensive BBL laser treatments unfortunately.
 

Serene

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So I just found that cod liver oil (Nordic naturals specifically) was helping my rosacea (redness and bumps) and some other histamine issues.

I ran out and my skin is getting worse again. I had no idea it was the CLO that made such a difference. I thought it was something else i was doing. Getting a new bottle today.

CLO has vitamin A and D in it.

I was just thinking of the mite aspect and it would make sense that since I am taking A and D it would strengthen my immune system, which means maybe mites. I just ordered some horse paste to try also. The copper and those vitamins are probably the things helping with my histamine issues as well.

Good luck.
 

LadyRae

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So I just found that cod liver oil (Nordic naturals specifically) was helping my rosacea (redness and bumps) and some other histamine issues.

I ran out and my skin is getting worse again. I had no idea it was the CLO that made such a difference. I thought it was something else i was doing. Getting a new bottle today.

CLO has vitamin A and D in it.

I was just thinking of the mite aspect and it would make sense that since I am taking A and D it would strengthen my immune system, which means maybe mites. I just ordered some horse paste to try also. The copper and those vitamins are probably the things helping with my histamine issues as well.

Good luck.
Update?
 

Smitty

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Anecdotally, supplementing vitamin D3 significantly increases my propensity to flush alongside general redness and rosacea symptoms. What is the mechanism here? D3 is stimulating cathelicidin release which is responsible for increased dilation and vascularity of blood vessels?

My D3 levels are very low but as soon as I discontinue it, my symptoms almost instantly improve. I've tried D3 in different carrier oils – MCT, organic olive oil, etc. with no luck. I'd love to hear others insights or accounts with D3 and rosacea.
 

LadyRae

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Anecdotally, supplementing vitamin D3 significantly increases my propensity to flush alongside general redness and rosacea symptoms. What is the mechanism here? D3 is stimulating cathelicidin release which is responsible for increased dilation and vascularity of blood vessels?

My D3 levels are very low but as soon as I discontinue it, my symptoms almost instantly improve. I've tried D3 in different carrier oils – MCT, organic olive oil, etc. with no luck. I'd love to hear others insights or accounts with D3 and rosacea.
What about natural sun exposure? Can you bring up your D levels that way? How does your skin react to moderate sun exposure?

The more sun I get- the better my skin, excluding burns of course!
 

Smitty

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What about natural sun exposure? Can you bring up your D levels that way? How does your skin react to moderate sun exposure?

The more sun I get- the better my skin, excluding burns of course!
Natural sun exposure feels great although I must keep it brief and mostly off my face as I'm quite sensitive to heat – it rapidly exaggerates my rosacea symptoms. I used a Sperti vitamin D lamp for quite some time but my levels still remain low!
 

LadyRae

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Natural sun exposure feels great although I must keep it brief and mostly off my face as I'm quite sensitive to heat – it rapidly exaggerates my rosacea symptoms. I used a Sperti vitamin D lamp for quite some time but my levels still remain low!
That makes sense. Most rosacea sufferers cannot tolerate the heat or increased blood flow...

For what it's worth, I have been on doxycycline for a month now, 100 mg twice a day, and it has drastically improved the skin on my face. If you search in the forum on the doxycycline threads I've commented on several of them....
 

aniciete

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Whenever I develop pale stools, I suffer from flushing skin and sun intolerance. I now think that any allergen I consume causes my gallbladder to swell restricting bile flow. No amount of bile stimulators can fix this in my experience.

Being on and off of grains and all kinds of dairy made me realize that these food groups trigger this problem 100% of the time. Some other symptoms that arise along with the flushing are bleeding hemorrhoids, constipation, pale stools, waking up in the night, flaky skin, gallbladder/liver tension, etc.
 

Smitty

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That makes sense. Most rosacea sufferers cannot tolerate the heat or increased blood flow...

For what it's worth, I have been on doxycycline for a month now, 100 mg twice a day, and it has drastically improved the skin on my face. If you search in the forum on the doxycycline threads I've commented on several of them....
Spot on. I've taken doxycycline in the past with slight improvements but now I get a similar response to it as Vitamin D. Maybe it's because it has the delayed release beads in it whereas previously I just took it every 12 hours without the beads. Not sure what's in those but maybe I'm sensitive to it. I'll browse through some of the other posts.. thanks!
 

Smitty

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Whenever I develop pale stools, I suffer from flushing skin and sun intolerance. I now think that any allergen I consume causes my gallbladder to swell restricting bile flow. No amount of bile stimulators can fix this in my experience.

Being on and off of grains and all kinds of dairy made me realize that these food groups trigger this problem 100% of the time. Some other symptoms that arise along with the flushing are bleeding hemorrhoids, constipation, pale stools, waking up in the night, flaky skin, gallbladder/liver tension, etc.
Interesting correlation. Recent test results show highly elevated B12 levels, ~1100 I believe which could be indicative of liver dysfunction, although my doc refuses to test my liver enzymes. Likewise, Taurine doesn't do much for me either aside from making the flushing slightly worse. I have zero grains in my diet as well but usually consume 1L of goats milk per day. My digestion and sleep are both perfect.
 

aniciete

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Interesting correlation. Recent test results show highly elevated B12 levels, ~1100 I believe which could be indicative of liver dysfunction, although my doc refuses to test my liver enzymes. Likewise, Taurine doesn't do much for me either aside from making the flushing slightly worse. I have zero grains in my diet as well but usually consume 1L of goats milk per day. My digestion and sleep are both perfect.
My b12 was the same and now it seemed to normalize.

When these problems develop, my bilirubin starts climbing up. It got up to 2.5 and once I removed masa harina it dropped to 0.6 within 2 weeks. I started up different yogurts and milks a couple weeks ago and once again, my bilirubin shot up to 2.

Not sure why I developed these issues in the last year but I seemed to have found the cause.
 

Smitty

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My b12 was the same and now it seemed to normalize.

When these problems develop, my bilirubin starts climbing up. It got up to 2.5 and once I removed masa harina it dropped to 0.6 within 2 weeks. I started up different yogurts and milks a couple weeks ago and once again, my bilirubin shot up to 2.

Not sure why I developed these issues in the last year but I seemed to have found the cause.
Hmm as we've discussed, removing milk entirely seems very difficult but it may be the jump I have to take. Thanks again for the nudge haha.
 

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