Cognitive Empathy

[Simonsays]

I dont really have a philosophy, but based on my own experiences , i am believer in the tremendous advances made in psychology in defeating the dangerous argument that genes determines personality.

We are truly shaped by our environment ( the first 6 years being paramount).

I think i am curious and fairly open minded. My physical health has been been declining (hypo for many years) and this led to me to Peat as i wasnt prepared to accept what i was told.

I have taken anti depressant drugs in the past and have had counselling/therapy and i believe it can be helpful to people. (im not so sure about anti depressants now having read Peat!)

There are some really good books out now on psychology, that just werent available when i was younger. These have been a great eye opener to me, although painful to accept.

I am of the belief that my physical health problems were as a result of emotional stress caused by a traumatic childhood. This in turn affects your stress response to events , higher cortisol , higher estrogen etc, leading to malfunctioning thyroid. (I have a friend on another thyroid forum, who also had a traumatic childhood, but he is much more biologically determinist , in that that hormone dysregulation causes the trauma not the other way round)

Re; The Universe(s?) and the afterlife, i am fascinated by it all, but i dont currently believe we go on as it were when we die. As i said before i think this is a form of narcissism, in that we cant accept we are gone. But the Universe(s) isnt!

PPS Your reply tapped into my narcissistic/borderline traits and my passive aggressive response !

 

[Simonsays]

Although I don't like confined spaces my claustrophobia comes from my thinking. I will take a situation, be that a job, relationships, commitment and mentally apply bars, locks and bolts and feel trapped with no way out. It can be as extreme as feeling like I'm on the edge of a building on fire and must jump to free myself. I have only just become aware that intimacy causes panic/ claustrophobia in me.

Hi Greg, i can totally relate to this.. its not just a lifts!! That was just a simple example.

Its a fear of enmeshment / engulfment

Engulfment: This can happen between a parent and child, or within a romantic endeavor. Fear of engulfment may look like, or be acted-out as fear of commitment. The feelings involved with this issue are; "I'm afraid that if I get too close to you, I'll have to give up too much of me," or "I can't be myself, when I'm around you." Engulfment means loss of Self--or the surrender of one's own needs and desires.

Enmeshment: This is the inability to discern and separate your feelings and needs from another's. A simple example would be, when a couple's trying to decide on which restaurant or movie they want, each is unable to assert his or her preference, for fear of incurring the other's anger or disappointment. This usually prompts a vicious cycle of; "well, I don't know, what do you want to do?" In short, it's the inability to sense where You end--and another begins! Enmeshment also inhibits you from being yourself, for fear of being rejected or abandoned by somebody. The root of this issue begins when an infant's mother disapproves of his need to separate/individuate when he starts to crawl, and discover that he's no longer physically joined or connected to her. Enmeshment is dangerous in romantic relationships, because each partner is disconnected from his/her own feelings, believing they should be always responsive to the other's. This causes suppression of natural, normal feelings, and promotes passive-aggressive acting out in ways that are highly injurious to the partner and the relationship.

For the Borderline, pain is easier to tolerate than pleasure. This is due to an old 'superstition' which was acquired during childhood; "If I feel too good, something really bad's gonna happen!" In essence, whenever this kid felt any stable or happy feelings, the rug was yanked out from under him. Steady repetition of that type of event is incredibly destabilizing for a child, and teaches him to anticipate disaster the minute he feels any sense of comfort or calm. This reflex becomes habituated, for it eases his fear of impending emotional devastation from any/all unforeseen disasters that 'might' lay ahead, but it also spawns serious control issues, anxiety disorders, OCD (Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder) traits, and their need to argue or distance, after especially enjoyable episodes with you

Learned Helplessness: This is a way of thinking that's implanted early in life, when it's impossible to separate from emotional, psychic or physical pain. It leaves one with a sense of "what's the use?" and inhibits him/her from sensing that there are options, and effective methods to escape their anguish. Animal studies were done many years ago, which illustrated this psychological phenomenon. Scientists stood above a room with shallow walls, and poked groups of dogs who couldn't escape shocks that were administered by humans with electrical prods, no matter where the dogs positioned themselves in this room. After a certain number of days, the scientists opened the door to that room which would allow the dogs to flee their tormentors, but none of them left. They'd been conditioned to believe there was no escape from their pain, and remained. Learned helplessness is a leftover from childhood abuse.

 

[Drareg]

I dont really have a philosophy, but based on my own experiences , i am believer in the tremendous advances made in psychology in defeating the dangerous argument that genes determines personality.

We are truly shaped by our environment ( the first 6 years being paramount).

I think i am curious and fairly open minded. My physical health has been been declining (hypo for many years) and this led to me to Peat as i wasnt prepared to accept what i was told.

I have taken anti depressant drugs in the past and have had counselling/therapy and i believe it can be helpful to people. (im not so sure about anti depressants now having read Peat!)

There are some really good books out now on psychology, that just werent available when i was younger. These have been a great eye opener to me, although painful to accept.

I am of the belief that my physical health problems were as a result of emotional stress caused by a traumatic childhood. This in turn affects your stress response to events , higher cortisol , higher estrogen etc, leading to malfunctioning thyroid. (I have a friend on another thyroid forum, who also had a traumatic childhood, but he is much more biologically determinist , in that that hormone dysregulation causes the trauma not the other way round)

Re; The Universe(s?) and the afterlife, i am fascinated by it all, but i dont currently believe we go on as it were when we die. As i said before i think this is a form of narcissism, in that we cant accept we are gone. But the Universe(s) isnt!

PPS Your reply tapped into my narcissistic/borderline traits and my passive aggressive response !

The current evidence tells us it's not narcissism to believe we continue after death,it just tells us it is possible.
Until we define consciousness it would be more narcissistic to believe we don't go on after we die.

Unfortunately It's also possible we are electric fruit for beings in another dimension.

 

[snowboard111]

Isn't consciousness reduce to it simplest form be; X, Y,Z, space & time?

 

[James_001]

" I'm having trouble with cognitive empathy, which in my understanding is the ability to imagine where someone might be coming from, what they're thinking and their between the lines meaning.

I'm overly logical "

Before starting the hole talk about hormones, diets, trauma and stuffs like that, I would be much more curious about what's your daily activities?

Reading too much, spending too much time on the internet/computer, trying to figured things out for the fun of it can make one go crazy... it's a never ending puzzle that lead nowhere . I can only speak from experiences but I think it's quite easy to extrapolate analytical behaviours/thinking to area of life that are not needed and thing start to feel like a game of chess.

This. What is your job? If you're some sort of engineer or mathematician I would suggest trying to switch into a non-logical field. I did this and it helped me a lot.

If you send all day exercising your logical brain, human interaction becomes more difficult.

 

[Thoushant]

Wow thank you so much for the responses everyone! I just realized I've been looking the wrong place, and yours posts made me aware of that. My problem is probably racing mind and thoughts, not being present bodily. I'm setting up my get out of this hole fix:
1. Breathslim to 22s SLOWLY and bodily sensation focus for the next days
2. Journaling, especially jotting down emotions and behavioural motivations, from an ego defence point of view, The egodefence POV helped me in the past, I just have completely forgotten
3. Go easy on brainy stuff, I should set time for it, not the other way around.
4. maybe, I'm kinda intrigued by oxytocinin, I might try a low dose nasally. I am low trusting generally.

. I think that I've very gradually learned to be open, honest, genuine, real, compassionate, etc. with myself, and then to bring those qualities into every interaction as much as possible. I've come to appreciate the entire range of human emotion and have just started to feel pleasure in feeling all kinds of uncomfortable emotions. The key is to tune into the sensory experience of the emotion. Sensory experience becomes pleasureable, even when the emotion itself is initially uncomfortable.

I try to be in touch with my emotional experience of each particular moment and to connect with another honestly from that space. It's like you hold the space for all of your own emotions and reactions and all of what you receive from another. It feels very grounded and present and real. Reduced breathing helps and complements this process.


I've become more aware that I am often wrong about another person. I now feel like it is good, whenever I notice that I've misperceived another, or was completely wrong about something. There is now an opportunity to better understand and empathize. Most people forgive blunders, when they feel that you actually care.

I have found that if I am in touch with and sharing from what matters to me, then other people respond in kind and the interaction is satisfying. At first it is scary to share more intimately, but after awhile it becomes comfortable and normal.

When one favors the mind and intellect, it can get in the way of and block emotional/sensory experiencing. It seems like it's very common to be unbalanced in this way. We all have suffered too much trauma. @Xisca has helpful posts here on healing from trauma.

It is great that you are exploring this. I hope that it leads to rich emotional connection. Thanks for sharing so honestly.

Thank you Heidi, your post is very inspiring, I just realised that I lately have(yet again) been neglecting my own emotions, and overbreathed any sadness or sensation. I'm setting tommorow to just focus on any sensation that comes.

"

Before starting the hole talk about hormones, diets, trauma and stuffs like that, I would be much more curious about what's your daily activities?

Reading too much, spending too much time on the internet/computer, trying to figured things out for the fun of it can make one go crazy... it's a never ending puzzle that lead nowhere . I can only speak from experiences but I think it's quite easy to extrapolate analytical behaviours/thinking to area of life that are not needed and thing start to feel like a game of chess.

You described a normal day of mine :p
Dude, I just had a major realisation. A couple of months ago, besides my exams stress I wanted to plot physiology of hair loss, and so for two days I was deep in articles, and forgot bodily sensations. I don't think I've recovered ever since, I have been in my head ever since longing for that project to finish, but also not doing it. Better leave it for now.

Engulfment: This can happen between a parent and child, or within a romantic endeavor. Fear of engulfment may look like, or be acted-out as fear of commitment. The feelings involved with this issue are; "I'm afraid that if I get too close to you, I'll have to give up too much of me," or "I can't be myself, when I'm around you." Engulfment means loss of Self--or the surrender of one's own needs and desires.

Enmeshment: This is the inability to discern and separate your feelings and needs from another's. A simple example would be, when a couple's trying to decide on which restaurant or movie they want, each is unable to assert his or her preference, for fear of incurring the other's anger or disappointment. This usually prompts a vicious cycle of; "well, I don't know, what do you want to do?" In short, it's the inability to sense where You end--and another begins! Enmeshment also inhibits you from being yourself, for fear of being rejected or abandoned by somebody. The root of this issue begins when an infant's mother disapproves of his need to separate/individuate when he starts to crawl, and discover that he's no longer physically joined or connected to her. Enmeshment is dangerous in romantic relationships, because each partner is disconnected from his/her own feelings, believing they should be always responsive to the other's. This causes suppression of natural, normal feelings, and promotes passive-aggressive acting out in ways that are highly injurious to the partner and the relationship.

Last year I realized how my childhood upbringing affected my behaviour, I steered correct, but I guess old habits die hard. Btw, altered cognition from weed made me initally aware and go wtf at the requests put on me by my mom, and big sister.
I was convinced my mom was a narcisist, but I guess it's easier to deal with that way. Her unmet needs from my father she got from me, just too much "love me or else", passive-aggressive when I voiced different meaning, beliefs etc.

This. What is your job? If you're some sort of engineer or mathematician I would suggest trying to switch into a non-logical field. I did this and it helped me a lot.

If you send all day exercising your logical brain, human interaction becomes more difficult.

I see what you mean. Actually, my study of field last 4 years was humanitarien, but yes still required a lot oflogic/thinking, but I've concluded the other students were "more human" in behaviour than my logical self, I think that's a comperasion loop I always lived in without questioning. I've now switched to a more science based master, so hopefully I have more energy to manage time being logical.

 

[Simonsays]

Thousant, it appears you're open to all angles and this can only be a positive.

True insight into ones behaviour is very difficult for many people, as it can be very painful, but it can bring so many benefits.

Old habits do indeed die hard, they are our emotional template, hardwired from an early age and very hard to shift.

Good luck

 

[Xisca]

Hi thousant and others... Thanks Heidi for telling me about this topic. We share a lot of the same, and I am just amazed at how good she writes it! Well, also, i am not a native english speaker....
All complements, there are different entry doors....
About hormones for example, when you do "something" for the nervous system, they reorganize just by themselves. You can either do some personal work (but which?) or try some hormones.... or both. If you do the trauma release, it is just safer, because your body knows. If you take any drug, well, how much?

My grain of salt:
Personal story before 6 months of age:
A problem there just gives exactly the way you say you behave. I am one of those as well, accident during pregnancy. It can also be a difficult birth, early chirurgy... It goes far beyond "bad parents".
At physiological level, it unfortunately damages the vago ventral nervous system, which is the social engagement part of the parasympathetic system.

When I read about "repressed feelings", I would like to rename this "undischarged defensive energy", to go down at the physical level that creates the emotional response. It is all together, but there is a basic physical level that is phylogenetically older.

So, when people do not seem very "true", they are, but at another level than the conversation.

They are just doing what is called "co-regulation". People who are not at ease with this between humans are often better to feel this effect with pets. All mammals have this capacity to "hold the space" as Heidi said very rightly. I am now able to do this, and of course being trained in Somatic Experiencing is what helped me understand and more, do it. I am just in a phase that I see trauma consecuence everywhere, it just shows off sooooo much! It is a shock, as when you discover something you would not believe. I thought others were all better than me at coping with stress, and discovered we are all in the same ship.....
From a frozen bubble, welcome into the real world.....

 

[Thoushant]

Thousant, it appears you're open to all angles and this can only be a positive.

True insight into ones behaviour is very difficult for many people, as it can be very painful, but it can bring so many benefits.

Old habits do indeed die hard, they are our emotional template, hardwired from an early age and very hard to shift.

Good luck

Thank you Simonsays.


Hey Xisca,
Sounds motivating about the nervous system, I often forget my whole subconcious thing and trusting in your gut, gotta remember that.
I've learnt you're also slowing your breating. I did that half a year ago, I had episodes of crying at home and screaming in the woods for no appearent reason, none of that would have come about if I didn't the slow breathing thing. It's really uncomfortable at the start, But gotta go through it again. Nice way to put it about levels in conversation, it seems I often go to conclusions without finding alternatives.
I'm gonna check up on your comments in here, I think there might be a few gems to find!